Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

What have you got in the barn? What weight with small block auto could you be.
Would you try a $2000. Motor class? A 5-6000$ motor?

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

Hmmmm, lots of lurking, no responses........34-3600#

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

Zero interest in claimer classes.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

x2

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

Where's the thread on the claimer classes? I never seen it. Don't know of any interest in a claimer class.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

Have a SS car sitting but wouldn't be interested in claimer or crate motor classes. Bob Michael

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

Don't blame you. No one i know is.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

remember Dick is bored, lol

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

Dick has been beating this same drum since I have been on here. There never seems to be any interest for this kind of class but he keeps pushing for it. Got to give it to the guy he is very persistent. He can take almost any thread and turn it into if we had a spec class life would be better.

As to answer the question no I wouldn’t be interested and yes I do have a car that would fit sitting in the garage.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

Claimer classes haven't worked in stock car racing for quite a few years and for several reasons. Many times the price was set too low and no one wants to lose what they actually have worked on for less than what it costs to replace. And it still doesn't stop the money part of it. If someone wants to just throw away money (and there always is someone that will do this just to win) they will do so. Crate motor classes don't work that well either. I know some teams that buy up to 10 motors, dyno them all, then sell off the all but 2 of the engines. No money savings there and still unequal. Same would happen in drag racing.
An very good engine builder near here was taking Chevy crate motors and just going through the motors and machining to specs and finding almost 40hp over what they motors were making just as they were shipped from GM. There will always be cheaters so I don't think it'll work from what I've seen. JMT.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

I agree, but Brodix spec head racing is alive and well in roundly round land.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

Thanks for the responses. I have been busy at work.
No not a claimer class.
Yes I am dedicated or persistantly interested in helping start a basic class for SS or STK where you dont have to spend $50K for the motor or become extinct next week by a bogus HP rating because HP is subjective, CU IN is objective. A 350 this week is 350 next week. A 295 HP this week "Might be "305 Next week or worse. A class of 9 or 10 NHRA former record holders could be gone when someone discover a 265 HP 454 in your class and can run.5 to .7 faster in INDY without factoring.
Yes I have experience, 30 or 35 Wallys in my house.?five Indy Class wins in GT/AA, One year won class at 5 National events and that was no bye runs.. SS/EA vette which won many class trophies.I won Indy Points meet and RU at at least two others.Not to brag but to inform people I have been there and loved it.
Now each and every car I have owned, sweat over day and nights I LOVED. They ran well but each was made extinct by a bogus HP rating for or against it.
They CANNOT factor cubic inchs but you know the risk of HP ratings staying unfair of becoming unfair overnight...
That said- Modified type class of lb/cubic inch allowing you to use your 69 camaro, 70s Dart, or mustang with a Brodix head, 350 cubic inch stick or auto would be a level field if you LIMIT the options and tech the class. Or as I have seen the DR350 Chevy motor
sealed could be a one motor class with low budget. Brodix can tech a head of question and all three have been flowed and are very close to equal.
No al rods, no knife edge cranks, no external oil pump. Same carbs and no fab manifolds.
See the point ? Create a level field with NO modifications of a motor (SEALED) or Lb/cubic inch with very limited rules on mods and TECH them.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

Some sort of GT classes in stock might be interesting, newer engines, or crate engines in older cars. Some more choices instead of the antiques we run now.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

Nova dude. If your car is a chevy would you buy an $1800 Complete motor and go racing ? What if the class was given an index in Stk or SS and you could run at Points races till enough cars showed up to have a heads up race?

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

Todd,

you are kidding.... right?

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

Todd, unfortunately a GT stk class does not address costs, factoring or.....again just another place to pour money.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

[QUOTE=Dick Butler;447433]Todd, unfortunately a GT stk class does not address costs, factoring or.....again just another place to pour money.[/QUOTE

since when does GT stock not exist?

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

Thank you, Ronnie

I addressed the same thing in another "heads up" thread.
Add in ; Fresh tires all the time
Highest dollar ,lightest clutch
Chassis dyno time
New valve springs every race, and so on..

Easy to see why the guy with the most money would dominate any kind of heads up deal.
The fuel costs and entry fees alone are too great today for racers to travel to a race without an even chance of winning.
It's a whole different world than when Super Modified took off in the 70's.
...In my opinion

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

(double post)


Might as well add : I think independent class national type event are the way to go.
Best of both worlds
Who wouldn't want to watch the SS/K Shootout for example ?

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

I think Dick has at least some of those concerns addressed. Single disc clutch only, 10.5 in dia. Min. No counter wts. No computers, lots of other restrictions. Crate motors may have a problem, specified head, not so much. I've personally flowed 4 sets of Brodix spec, and they are all consistently mediocre.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

No one has come up with a solution to reign in the technology that money will buy today. There are some simple things that would reduce the cost of Stock/SS racing, but getting majority endorsement is difficult and then there are still plenty of other things to spend money on to gain an advantage.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

Stock GT and Crate Motor Stock already exist in IHRA, and have for years. There are very few Stock GT cars. There are a large number of crate motor cars. People build crate motors just like you do any other Stock Eliminator engine, though. You're not going racing with an $1,800 crate motor, and if you could, it wouldn't have anything to do with Stock and Super Stock racing.

I'm a bracket racer that happens to enjoy Class racing. While my budget prevents me from going very fast, I do pick away at things as I am able, and enjoy the challenge. This type of spec head class isn't interesting to me personally.

As always, if you want to start a new class, publish the rules and schedule, and work deals with track(s) to feature the class.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

At least you're honest.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

I'm not kidding Chris. So I can head out to the salvage yards (30 to ? miles away), I only have one chance a week to go because I work five days a week. Search for old rusty obsolete parts (428CJ). Then spend $3.50 per gallon on gas to haul the parts to the nearest machine shop (again 30 miles one way), one chance a week to do this depending on if the kids have any activities going on and weather permitting, try to explain to them what I want done and why, wait until they are done rebuilding tractor parts and can get to my stuff. Pay god knows how much money and make multiple trips back and forth until they get it right. Then I can assemble it myself and it won't be very fast and will probably scatter all over the track in a couple passes. Or I can spend a lot of money and take it to a repubital engine builder and pay his machinist to redo everything the way he wants it and wait some more.

Or I can call Jack Roush or Ford Racing and have a complete 351W (hence the stock GT classes), assembled with all new parts, delivered right to my doorstep in a week or so. I can probably get it running in a few days, and it will have more hp, last longer, and be way faster than what I would have built.

Racing isn't cheap, we all know that, but it might not be "as" expensive as fixing the old stuff. And it might let a few more people get out there and go racing.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

My all time favorite concern or comment against heads up or spec class: Some one will buy 10 motors and become the fastest in the class.... Currently the man who has the most BOGUS hp combination figured out or the New car unfactored is winning your class or should I say every class...

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

Dick,
I know you have plenty of experience and love the concept but in reality I just don't see it working. In the mid 90's David Hall and I started racing in the Parts Pro Truck Series. The new factory built cars have changed the playing field and while I understand the factories reasoning behind it NHRA has (in my opinion) failed to protect those long time competitors like NASCAR attempts to do with the Cup Series. I understand we are not pros, but the same issues that face the pros face us just on a smaller scale. The way I see it, you either have to refine and fix the current class because with the technology and money involved in today's racing almost any heads up racing will start out reasonable but soon escalate to point where the masses cannot afford it and you lose even more racers. I like the thinking though and I sure wish there was some way to do this..

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

...or maybe it's the guy with his hands on every aspect of his race car.The one who's not afraid to think outside the box and try something new..not necessarily the guys with STORE BOUGHT engine with a fair hp factor.

Low factor, undeveloped (or as you call them bogus) combos are only good for class wins , which don't pay anything anymore, or an occasional heads up win.
I'm not even sure if you're pitching another class within Super Stock or a new eliminator.
I don't think another SS class will fix drag racing.

BTW, I applaud you and Randy's effort to put more butts in the seat somewhere..anywhere, if that is your intention.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

No I would still not do it there is no such thing as a low cost heads up class. If they gave you the engine for free the guy with the most money would still win. As he would test 10 different converters and transmissions to find the ideal setup. And that’s fine. Other than what the NHRA has done with the factory cars it is all good.
The car as it sits is NHRA legal and could be ready to go in a matter of a day or two. For me right now there are just things I am enjoying doing more than racing stock. At some point I will get the itch again and dust the car off do what needs updating as I am sure NHRA will add some enhancements by that time that will need addressed. And I will bring it back out.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

I doubt anyone with 20 converters is going to have an advantage over a typical clutch car. Because from what I'm hearing an auto will run heads up with the clutch cars. And I really don't think a standard trans is as temperamental as an auto.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

Mark, Yes, make It simple for the racers and it is cheaper. Make it simple for the spectator and they can watch a friend win or at least compete. They can see if he wins or loses by the light in his lane.
They will come to watch this class if it becomes its own. Also when Jr. Stock was popular many people could just get into it this week and become more competitive as they could afford.
One other problem is too many of the todays racers know many subtle tricks which took years to become known in the general racing.
My Goals:1)Simplify the allowed modifications(keep it cheaper)
2) create a better entry point into class type racing
3) Draw in more spectators to watch, understand and enjoy class racing.
4) Keep the table level without need for outside factoring.( a 350 today is a 350 tomorrow)(not so with HP factoring)

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

Todd,
What I am saying is that IHRA basically has this. I just don't believe they have added all the new factory engines yet though. Maybe if enough people ask, they will.
IHRA also has Stock GT which allows you to put an older stocker motor in a newer car. In a nut shell, what you are asking for already exists. That's why I said " are you kidding?"

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

To add to that: while Crate Motors aren't an $1,800 endeavor, you *can* build a decent car and combination on somewhat of a budget, and have something that you can both Class race and bracket race. There are a number of younger racers that have gotten into Class racing this way. It'd be very simple to add. That being said, NHRA has neither the want nor need to add more cars, particularly when they quota events anyway.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

This is just a continuation of the other thread.......


He who has the most money wins heads up...PERIOD! ANY heads up, ANYWHERE, ANY time.....

Dick I respect you for the time and effort and all the accomplishments you've had in dragracing, but your beating a dead horse. There is no such thing as an "entry level" heads up race. The closest thing I see you doing with a spec engine class is making it like the karts where motors are nothing, just stick it in and run it till it blows and pop another one in..but tires and suspension..now THAT is important. Once you take the engine innovation out and everybody does the "I run a 68 jet because bubba does" and "I run 38* timing because that's what everybody else does" then to me you just made a class as exciting as the iroc series was..which was BORING!

First determine why cars are sitting instead of being raced, and address THAT issue. Most I know, people either moved on to something else/died/can't afford it. I don't think there is a treasure trove of cars just sitting because they got too much hp added.

As novadude said, "For me right now there are just things I am enjoying doing more than racing stock. " In other words, instead of bitching about all the "enhancements", he let his feet do the talking. I think there are many more who would park their car because they're so fed up with the crap too, but love racing too much to stop.

If it was a simple case of being factored out, the guys who are sitting could hit a bracket race instead of letting their $$$ investment rust away under a tarp in a barn.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

I'm going to chime in here for a second. It could be done, probably won't be done, but if restricted properly, it could be reasonably affordable. We might be beating a dead horse, but dang, I don't understand the negativity to such a class. Let's start with the Brodix spec head, tried and true in other racing. Add cast intake only, no external mods, no trick, lite wt. cranks. (Sight plug in pan), no computers, no vac pump, no external oil pumps, no billet internal pumps. lift limited to .700 at the valve, no belt drive, one single disc clutch, no counter wts. no titanium or carbon drive line parts, You could have a $million in the short block if you choose, but everyone's heads flow basically the same. And a short block is only capable of so much performance. Trick rings would not be near as advantageous without the vac pump. Sliders can be manufactured by Jerico, and G-Force to make you tap the clutch to release. Unless someone cheats, where's the big advantage. The head company's have already said they can catch what tech cannot. Now, let the bashing begin. Why are people so against it? It steps on no one's toes.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

Dick,
I admire your passion.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

Randy I like your ideas for a class like this. If there was a format where I could run my car in a heads up deal for what I have spent to return to super stock I would do it. I love class cars but would like to lose the shoepolish and not bend over backwards in high gear looking for the guy in the other lane.
FWIW I took my car from Denver to Ohio a few years back and raced in a nostalgia event a friend set up. We showed up and ran heads up and the cars there were within a couple tenths of each other. I didn't win it but it was a blast. All old modified type stick cars.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

good post Jim. hope to see you at last
combo race sat. at beautiful bandimere ....

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

Another very respected racer, Jim Hawkins. A guy who ran the same class as I for years, and knows what I'm trying to relay. A lot of his stuff ended up at Bethany, and I competed against it. Why won't it work? Yes, I know some will try to cheat. I know that. Fine them huge, and kick them out. Under these rules, no one in my opinion will run away with the class. When, in the history of drag racing has all the big three had the basic exact same head? Tell me again why it won't work. It ain't a crate motor, it ain't a claimer motor, it addresses lots of other hidden costs, why won't it work? It does not take out innovation, just changes the direction you go. I think some would hate to see it work. I don't run down other classes. why so many bash an idea is beyond me. It has the local appeal that drag racing needs right now.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

I believe people's primary objection is not toward the idea of the class itself, but the idea that it would be included in Super Stock. And once again, if you believe in the idea, just DO it. If you don't, who will? That's why it's a dead horse, because all anyone wants to do is talk about it. You must lead by example.

My partner Anthony Walton and I thought there needed to be some changes in big money bracket racing. We put on our own events, done the way we thought they should be, and have grown them into really great events. We talked about the Class Nationals on here for over a DECADE. No one brought it back, so we did, and it was an awesome event! We're working on 2015 now. If you leave it as just an idea, the best you're ever going to get is "that's nice". You have to actually DO it.

Re: Want a list of SS or Stk cars sitting.
 

I have done it. I own Bethany drag way, and ran spec for 3 years. Before that ran 7 years of stock valve angle ported head classes. Before that ran open heads up head rules at Bethany. When I closed Bethany, went and supported modified no break out racing at Eddyville. But it was wide open, and what started out as 10 cars ended up the last night with two cars, us, and the Buck Bros. Camaro. We were either 1st or second qualified each night and took first or second each night. What I noticed was when they had those races at Eddyville the crowd was larger. The reason I closed Bethany is not because no one came, but owning a track locally, and be competitive in the class, and enforcing rules on people not used to it was a pain in the butt. Plus, it wasn't my living. NHRA would and could eliminate some if not all those problems. This discussion is partly about how to get people interested in watching drag racing again. And if they don't want a new class in SS, fine. But I see nothing on the horizon to bring back spectators.