New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

Does anyone have an answer, in regard to the new Classes within Super Stock GT ?

SECTION 11B: SUPER STOCK/GT, DESIGNATIONS, (Page 10) FGT/A,FGT/B,FGT/C,FGT/D,FGT/E,FGT/F,FGT/G,FGT/H,FGT/I,FGT/J

2008 and newer Chevrolet COPO, Dodge Drag Pak, and Ford Cobra Jet or their engine combinations (automatic and manual) restricted to FGT/A through FGT/J.

So, if you apply the rule, as written, if I have a 2014 Camaro and take out the 427 and put in, say, a 1970 or 1995 LT-1 motor, I still have to run the F/GT class because the CAR is a new model ?

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

Yes, that is correct.

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

"or their engine combinations (automatic and manual) restricted to FGT/A through FGT/J."

Interesting,
So conversely, I'll use this as an example, 2010 352CJ in a 94 Mustang GT is what? FGT Or Regular GT?

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

FGT. Any combo new anything body or motor, or if you got new shoes or socks, except the 2008 and newer Jelly Beans (Cobalts etc) seem to be exempt. Really bad math on this. Affects 16 GT cars with new bodies, or new motors, or both out of about 350 to 400 GT cars. I guess we will have diversity like Comp. That is working well.

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

It was probably intended to read as 'body/engine combo or engine', but could use clarification.

It would be nice if they posted the indexes for all the new classes that they announced in October. I e-mailed the tech department.

'Course if they were factored in the right zip code, they wouldn't need to be separate.

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

Not every 2008 and newer car falls into the factory built racecar category. The new F/GT rules apply to the Camaro COPO, Ford Cobra Jet, and the Dodge Drag Pak and/or their engine.

As an example, a 2010 Camaro SS was sold new as a street car that can be licensed. Its shipping weight is 3780 with an automatic. The engine is a LS style with 376 cubic inches rated at 400 horsepower. If used for GT, this body or engine would fall into regular SS/GT classes.

A newer Camaro COPO body or engine was not sold as a vehicle that could be licensed for the street. Both the COPO body or engine would put a car into the F/GT classes.

The same applies to the Ford Cobra Jet and Dodge Drag Pak body or engine. A 2010 352CJ engine puts it into F/GT.

The Camaro COPO, Ford Cobra Jet, and Dodge Drag Pak are listed as so in the NHRA classguide. Some other models of 2008 and newer cars that are not factory racecars are also listed in the classguide.

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

Travis will the copo,c-jet,and drag-pak cars and engine combos have new hp ratings for GT ?

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

No hp changes for the new GT cars. FGT/A will have the same index as GT/A which lowers the index .05 for the automatic cars. At least that is my understanding. So my 70 Duster (44 years old) with a 360 motor which was introduced in 1971 runs FGT/something or other. Any other 360 motor is in GT. Heads are different. But folks, this is SS, do what you want, just pore right. Both are Edlebrock knock offs with a Mopar casting #. It will be real nice to have your very own class to run in. I will wait for Nitro Joe's final edition to see who is going fast. This is about who NHRA thinks can go fast vs. who actually went fast during the year. I think we have 84 classes, and after this we have 107. I might be a little off on that, but very close.

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

If there is no HP changes or index changes for the F/GT classes and you can run an old motor in the new cars or a new motor in the old cars what was gained???

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

I don't think the FGT classes were added for the 16 cars currently affected. I think they were added so as the FSS cars beat up on each other and hit the HP ratings they couldn't drop back to regular SSGT at the lower HP as some traditional SS cars cars do now. Just being proactive ahead of future complaints.

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

Where is that listed? The difference between GT/A and GT/AA is .10. If that is the case FGT/H would be 10.85 instead of GT/HA's 11.05... a .20 hit while someone else gets .10? FGT/I gets hit .25 from GT/IA? Glad I spent a bunch of money on the car last month... I'll take my .20. How about the fast guys get .20 too?

As always, if they'd just factor the cars, they wouldn't need new classes in the first place. That being said, I like the idea of sticks & autos running together. Maybe this is a trial balloon for the traditional classes down the road.

Regardless, why haven't they just simply posted the indexes nearly a month after announcing the classes? They should give some consideration to people that may need to upgrade or modify their cars if they have to switch classes -- things which take time and money.

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

The factory cars and their (mostly underrated) motors are in separate classes! That is what was gained. Just like last year when we gained separation in SS/GT of the FWD and RWD cars for hp ratings.

Beard, I guess it's time to start spending some money on that motor!

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

...since they refuse to factor them properly. Better than nothing I guess. It's only going to have an effect in the populated classes, though. I'm virtually in my own class now, with an even less chance of a heads-up run or getting HP.

Re-read my post. I just did in Sept/Oct. Basically picked up what my index is getting hit (or what I guess it's getting hit, since they haven't posted anything). Right back to square one. But that's fine. I spent the money to go faster because I wanted to, and felt it would help me be more competitive. I don't have a lot, so I just do what I can, when I can.


EDIT - NHRA just e-mailed me back and said the new indexes will be posted early next week.

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

Bob, what was gained was: 1. New cars not in the classes with old cars, or in GT old motors also. (See number 3) 2. Automatic trans cars (which are about 90%) get hit .10 to .30 (maybe more) in FSS and FGT the way I make it because the indexes are same as comparable stick class. 3. The old cars will now attract another 200 to 400 cars back that quit cause they couldn't run with the new cars. 4. Personal agenda out of Div 2 got Mark Nowicki out of regular GT because he ran fast and programmed his racing not to get AHFS'd. Course it took 16 new classes to do this. 5. NHRA punished the cars they helped create, even though it is the largest new asset to Sportsman Racing 6. The wedge between New Car-Old Car has been driven deeper to the displeasure of the Manufacturers. 7. Used Obama methods of everyone has to be the same inspite of cost or work ethic.

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

Oh Jeff! :-) "even though it is the largest new asset to Sportsman Racing" LMBO!!

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

My first post on the new rules, likely my last.....work to do.

Perhaps another way to look at it is that they didn't go far enough to restore the purity to stock and superstock.......the fuel injected cars still need to be dealt with....they dominate the classes they are in, SS/JA anyone? C/SA...etc...I think fuel injected cars likely have a advantage.

I find myself oddly nostalgic for the IHRA where things were quite simple. If it had fuel injection it was by itself.....

Supercars(copo's, cobras and paks) by themselves makes 100% sense. Sort of like a modern version of SS/AH.....

GT/F with supercar motors, that too, it can create new life for old cars, or for those like myself that like to play in superstock without needing to have a motor on the ragged edge....

Supercars with old motors running with the others in GT/F well thats a bit more murky.

I do show up and play as often as I can with as many toys as I can....be it a dragpak, a dakota truck, a old classic challenger, or even a gremlin....unfortunately a lot of the posters don't race

Maybe the rule changes will inspire them to step away from the keyboard and get ready for the coming season!

Looking forward to the spring and the return of the greatest car show on earth.....

With the new indexes coming out, Michael I am going to need some more letters!

Eric

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

Eric, if you know Bobby Warren, ask him what he found when he was testing his LT1 SS engine on his dyno, and decided to try the QJet carb he had there. You might be surprised what he found.

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

Will all the new "single" cars/classes go into the combo for class eliminations like before? If so...that could turn interesting

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

Don't often have to run that deal in SS/JA, right Jeff? Normally more of those than any other class.

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

Ed, an interesting observation in various classes is had by looking at the numbers in various classes in Nitro's final edition. Many classes have large numbers at the end of the year, but at most races, the class is not populated. And of course Indy has everyone. If I was an excel guru like you, I would do a deal showing how many times each racer went to a race. I think maybe Nitro Joe (famous stat guy) could and it would shed more light on just who is racing. You could add up the races listed in the Lucas National Points now listed, but I don't think it would show where or when or what division. I looked at this after I was looking in my classes SS/KA and GT/HA and found they were about equal in participation yearly, but GT/HA had more cars at the races I attended. Now most of my races are in Div 2 and Div 4 so maybe it's a Southern thing. SS/JA seems to have lots of participants. Is SS/JA the first class the has one pound breaks? Maybe that's it.

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

Jeff, we won't run the combo. We will run the Thanks For Coming, But It's Time For You To Go Eliminator, or shortened up PG Eliminator or Please Go. But not to be outdone, the New Car Garage drivers will just get together and have beverages and play rock, scissors, paper to establish the class winners because we all have our own class (say Comp eliminator). We can save our stuff, and the Manufacturers will front the beverages. You know the deal; Lemons, Lemonade etc.

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

Mr. Teuton,
Any idea if there will be a weight break for automatic cars in the FGT classes? It seems other classes where manual/autos are combined, there is a 5% or 250lb (whichever is less) weight break. It seems if indexes are being lowered to the manual GT indexes, this may make since for us automatic cars!

Nick Morris

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

The new cars/motors get the stick shift GT indexes. I don't have any details other than that. I have heard nothing else. Why don't you ask your Div Tech Director. I have used my yearly allowable emails to NHRA. Or your SRAC rep might be able to help. If you find out anything, please let me know. jefft@southlanddodge.com

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

SS/IA is the highest 1 lb class, isn't it? Lots of cars around. 350". 351", 360", and 3200/3300 lbs. guys crying about fuel injection evidently have to race Lloyd Wolford's 9 second (if he felt like it) SS/JA 360" Volary heads up. I used to see that car in my sleep. Sonny & James made that thing fly. I like SS/JA because there is always at least ( normally more) when we run class, and we get some heads ups. I have tried to work the lader for heads ups, but I seldom pull it off. They are usually a surprise. :-) I have never had to run that combo deal. Looks like a good way to get some hp.

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

SS/I-IA starts the 1 pound classes.

SS/H 9.50-9.99
SS/I 10.00-10.99
SS/J 11.00-11.99

And so on. I wrote this for ClassRacer a few years ago: http://classracer.com/classes.html

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

Ed,
Remember the Volare had a carburetor too...

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

That was a point I was trying to make. May not have been clear about it. I don't remember any fuel injected cars out running it. I sure didn't.

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

Quite a few SS/JA cars are LT-1 stockers running in super stock.

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

I see DP Stockers running SS also. Like at. a second under. Used to, anyway. LOL

Re: New 2015 SS/GT rules ?
 

Looks like the weight breaks and indexes are up for the new fs and fsgt classes on nhraracer.