CLASS RACER FORUM - EFI Systems

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I have been looking at my options for aftermarket EFI systems for my car. After navigating through each of the systems at the PRI show and speaking with some people I'm getting closer to my decision.

I'm leaning towards the Holley Dominator system. I feel like it's user friendly, well layed out, fast processor self learning and they offer training courses at BG. Big Stuff 3 is number 2 on my list with its new system that will be available in the next few months.

What is everyone else preferences and why? Pros and Cons?

Thanks in advanced for the feed back.

FAST seems to be very easy to use and has great customer service and support. Seems like a lot of guys use it and you can get assistance at the track.

Look for features such as individual cylinder tuning/timing good graphing recording/ + ease of active tuning. I have a older commander 950 system and it work's ok, but missing some of these modern system features.

I like where Big stuff uses a floating background that show where you are on your fuel map when you are looking at live data. Can't comment on FAST systems.

In the name of Full Disclosure, I work for FAST so I am biased. I just thought I would let you know about some of our features.
The FAST XFI 2.05 system has internal datalogging with the overlay function mentioned above. This allows you to "see" exactly where you were in any fuel or spark table at a given point in a datalog. This is very helpful in using datalog data to refine your tune.
The XFI features dual 25mHZ processors so it can make calculations at a speed of up to 50,000 times per second. That would be 500,000 calculations and fuel / spark decisions per 10 second run.
In coil on plug applications, you can use the dwell control feature to dial in the optimum amount of dwell time for your coils to find the best balance between power and coil life. The coil dwell has two tables that will change the dwell with battery voltage, and throttle position.
The XFI 2.05 features a 3d table that allows you to perfect your individual cyll corrections over the entire RPM range, not just one correction applied at all RPMs, but dynamic correction that allows you to match the changing airflow characteristics as RPMs change.
The XFI 2.05 also features fuel pressure compensation. The need for this comes from the fact that any EFI system uses a constant fuel flow number, you have to tell the ECU what size injector you have and the ECU assumes that that injector flow is constant, but in the real world, injector flow rates vary as the fuel pressure varries causing un-planned corrections needed from the ECU. The XFI monitors fuel pressure and constantly adjusts the reported injector flow rate as fuel pressure changes.
The proven true Speed Density strategy that FAST uses is super consistent. I personally tuned three class winners at the US nationals this year using our Load Indexed Speed Density Strategy and it was a breeze because no real adjustments were needed, even using tuneups from other tracks and different atmospheric conditions. It is so consistent because it uses air temperature and air pressure as part of it's base calculations. Once you get a tune dialed in for your combo, there is no need to go in and "Re-Dial it in" when you go to a different track with different altitude, barometer, and temperature.
This year at the US Nationals, I had a total of 15 class winners in Super Stock, and 5 class winners in stock. Nick Morris went on to win Super Stock and PB Candies made the fastest SS pass with a 7.859. I had every combo including L98, LT1, LS1, LS2, Modular Ford, Pushrod Ford, Oldsmobile, and Late Model Hemi in our list of class winners.
Our tech support team provides on track support at many points meets and Sports National events and I credit our success at Indy to years of helping customers and building relationships.
All of the major EFI systems available today will get the job done for you. If anyone tells you their system will make more power than another, run! Do your research, listen to your fellow racers, and make your best decision. Our track record speaks for itself. If you have any questions, I would be glad to answer them and Ill shoot you straight.
Also, FAST will offer Training Courses at our headquarters in Memphis.
Thanks
David Page
FAST

Vote for the Holley Dominator system here.

Very easy to use and the support has been second to none.

You can also use the HP system if you don't need as many inputs or outputs. If you start with the HP and need more down the road all harnesses and tunes move right over to the Dominator.

The training class was great too.

FAST XFI has everything you mentioned there. Great support if you need it, even at the track at major events. I have worked with most systems out there, and personally the new Holley Dominator would be my second choice. FAST for sure is my first choice.

FAST is certainly an consideration also. I didn't find much info at the PRI show so I wasn't really able to lay hands on it. I know Ernie and Dave run FAST and they like the system. I'm not sure what version they have but next time I'm out at their shop I may try to see if I can get the feel of it.

Is the FAST system able to run the Ford Mudular Coil on Plug system? The older modular COP had issues running above 8,250rpm. The new stuff seems to run a little better but some still switch to the LS coils.

I've ditched the drive by wire throttle body and the variable cam timing. It will be turning well north of 8,250rpm

If you are talking about Ernie Neal, we upgraded to version 2.05 at Indy. All of our updates are made available at no charge.
The XFI can run a Modular Ford with stock coils, LS coils, or the IGN -1A coils which work very well at high boost levels. As far as an RPM limit, the only thing I am aware of is on the coyote engine, there was an issue with the factory trigger wheel and Ford came out with this "High Rpm" version.

I hate that we didn't connect at PRI. I would have been glad to go through the software with you.

Yes I was referring to Ernie and Dave Neal.

I have the high rpm pulse ring from Ford Racing for my engine. It's the supercharged coyote for Stock eliminator. It also uses a manual transmission.

It's been a slow process for me to build the car from the ground up. Tony Bischoff is building the engine. I'm trying to get all the little odds and end items squared away before May season opener. EFI system is one of the pieces I have to get taken care of before we hit the dyno. I've mainly only messed around with factory computers on all my other projects except for the Anderson Motorsport PMS. I understand a lot of what's going on and performing most of the calculations based off of formulas. Was wanting a system that was simple enough to pick up quickly, grow with system going deeper into tuning and also have a capabilty to adjust to different combinations of powerplants.

I'll look more into the FAST system to see what questions I may have like injector drivers etc.... The tech/customer service is a big deal for me. Holley seemed good when I was talking to them at the show. Now it appears FAST also has that. BS3 I'm unsure about...

It seems everyone has their own preference. For the most part no one has anything bad to say about another system. When talking to some guys about the only one some said to stay away from was megasquirt(didn't ask why nor did I check out their system first hand)

I've worked with almost every major fuel injection system with the exception of the new Holley. Big stuff has almost no support. Unless you are best buddies with John Meany, or you have a good friend that knows a lot about big stuff. Fast is by far the easiest to use. They also have unmatched tech support, especially at the track. All of the new systems should have basically all the same features. However the ease of use of software and support are the most important intangibles for me. If you want an easy to use system with greats support FAST is the clear choice.

Mr. Johns,
You can't go wrong with FAST! They have a great product and in my opinion the absolute best customer service out there! David Page and the group at FAST have been instrumental in the performance and success that we've experienced on the race track with our SBF 352!

Nick Morris
SS-3718
FGT/F

We use FAST on all of our stuff.

We have the FAST system on our LT1 Firebird and from day one the tech support we have gotten is second to none. When you talk with their tech people you can tell they are passionate about their job and want to give you the best product and tune up possible!!

Jeff Dona

We have the FAST system on our LT1 Camaro and the support and customer service at the track has been awesome!Thanks to David Page and FAST!! Ricky Decker

Excited about my new FAST system and still reading instructions while my car is still in Virginia! How does load index differ from traditional speed density? Every track I race puts me at 97.5-99.5 kpa going downtrack so I figured I would change my y-axis to include a row for 97.5, 98.5, 99.5 kpa so I would have a row for any track I race at. When I first started I had a 95kpa row and the next row was 101kpa, so I could never get it exactly right going from a 97.5 track to 99.5 track. It would work for one track then have to be fixed for the next track. The differences between my three new rows are very minimal, just a little bit in the peak torque area just to keep the AF ratio consistent at all the northeast tracks.

Sounds like load index speed density calculates a load percentage based on the difference between Baro and manifold pressure, so does that mean I need an accurate row for (for example) 96%, 98%, 100%, etc.? I'm not yet understanding how the two types are different or how load indexed is the "easier" one to use. I'm guessing at Atco it would be close to 100% while in Norwalk it would be down to 90% or so?

Bobby, you are exactly right. Load Indexed Speed Density calculates load as MAP divided by Baro. The flaw with standard speed density is that as you go to conditions where you have lower barometric pressure, you will run in a lower row in your fuel, spark, etc. tables because your vertical reference in these tables is straight MAP. What we have always done to compensate for this is just tune those rows the same so that your tune stays the same, but what if you are running back in a good barometer situation with a throttle stop? Now, you will be in a lower row in the table, but you have entirely different airflow in your engine. You have to remember that the fuel table in any speed density application is actually an airflow table. The numbers in this table represent VE or Volumetric Efficiency. Simply put, how well are you filling the cylinders at this load and RPM point. If you think about it, you can see the rub, In the low barometer example where you are at high altitude, the Volume of air you are putting in the engine does not change, only the density of that air changes. In the second example where you are in good air (high barometer) but you are using a throttle stop, you are actually affecting the volumetric efficiency of the engine because the throttle blades are hindering the cylinder filling. Because of this, to properly tune, you need decreasing VE numbers in your table as you come down from the top row. Now if you do this, you will be in trouble when you go up in elevation because you will be lying to the ECU about the volumetric efficiency. Load indexed speed density fixes this because when you turn the key on, the system samples the MAP sensor to get a "Baro" reading and basically calibrates that MAP reading whatever it is as 100% load (or the 100% row in the tables). Now, you can build your tables properly to reflect the decreasing VE as the MAP comes down, but when you go to high elevations or "Bad Air", the system calibrates whatever the MAP reading is at key on as 100% load. So no matter what air you are in, you will always run in the 100% load row in your tables as long as you are wide open.
Now, for those who will say that as you get into bad air , low baro, high elevations, etc., you need less fuel, I agree, that is correct. But the MAP reading is already taking care of this in the air density part of the math that is going on behind the scenes. No need to put in a false (lower) VE number in bad air because the ECU already knows the air is bad from the MAP and Air Temp readings and it calculates the correct amount of fuel accordingly. In this density part of the equation, the adjusted or indexed load is not used, it uses the true uncorrected MAP reading just as it should to calculate how dense or "good" the air is.
:D