Check it out...
 

So last year I finally got my oil to stay under the rings and went a best of -.700 in 1,700 ft. DA.
At some point during the season I had 3 lifter c-clips disappear...luckily, everything stayed put and I didn't have any disasters. Fast forward to yesterday...dropped the pan to check bearings and look for the c-clips. I found 2 c-clip halves stuck to the drain plug, but that was it. Then I pulled the #2 main cap...
I know what I need to do, just thought I'd share with the rest of the class.

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Paul, were they the round wire retainer clips or the flat style? -Al

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Al, they were the round wire bent into a "U" shape ones. I'm puzzled how they could've made their way into the bearings, though...

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Paul,
Do you have magnets installed by the oil drain back holes in the block? Sorry to hear about the issue.

Sean

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I sure wish I did! (and will from now on)

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Do you have the filter adapter modified so all the oil goes through the filter ? How do the gears look on the oil pump ?

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The wire retainers drove us crazy..............We replace
them with "Tru Arc" style snap rings before installation.

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Yes, the bypass is plugged on the adaptor...haven't taken the pump apart yet. I need to pull the rear main cap and make sure the plug is in there that sometimes gets left out.

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Paul,
You had small foreign object go through your bearing, but your clips from lifters couldn't have made through there,if got one of those in oil pump it would locked up oil pump.
You just had something small ,piece metal,alum.,dirt get in to bearing,good chance came out of oil galley in crank itself. If haven't ran brushes through oil galleys before,do that you be surprised what will come out of what looks like a clean oil galley in a crank or block.
Mike Taylor 3601

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I got the motor apart yesterday and my suspicions were confirmed...the well plug was not present, so oil hasn't been going through the filter on any of my runs in the past 2 years.
The pump gears show that the clips went through:
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8568/...9aa638ed_z.jpg





And, with no filter, they went through the oiling system and did their thing:


https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7526/...8d2937c7_z.jpg


Tomorrow I'll take the crank to the machine shop and find out if it's junk.

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Ouch !

Glad you found one problem, that can be fixed. I like the idea of getting lifters that have a more robust clip, but the shape of the groove matters, so I don't believe you can just remove the round wire clip and replace it with a TrueArc. Find a lifter that comes with a TrueArc.

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Buy some rare earth (neodymium) magnets. You'll be amazed how strong they are and they'll catch any and everything. I use small ones at the head drain back holes, larger ones in the lifter galley and large ones in the oil pan. I stick a couple on the oil filter too. The ones in the heads are generally covered in fine metal dust which i clean off whenever I adjust valves.
I ordered them on ebay but see that Home Depot had them last time I was there. Don't use refrigerator magnets, they're useless.

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I was wrong,thought it would lock up pump,guess gears were soft enough,to let it through,I would check distributor shaft,gear and replace oil pump shaft.
If you still have filter cut it apart and may find clip in it or in a oil galley somewhere since plug was gone under main cap. if not planning on it I would clean all galleys well replace cam bearings because trash could be in grooves behind them and no other way to remove it or check for it and try to find clip,you had metal go through bearings but not the whole clip,what has went through there is probably not much more than .005-.010'
Probably can polish crank have to be sure metal isn't raised on sides of groove,if grind crank .010-.020 more probably will still have some of groove left, groove there is about the same as groove in bearing,some cranks have grooves in rods and main journal for oil.
Mike Taylor 3601

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All good advice, thanks Mike. I would love to be able to stay with this crank but I'm a little leery. The rod journals are already -.030, so do you think the groove would be a weak point?

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radius next to counterweight is where strain is,groove like that most likely won't hurt it just have to be certain it isn't raised on sides,when it gets cut alot of times it raises metal on the sides that would mess up new bearing,if I was doing this I would show to my customer and get the OK from them,either they would leave it up to me or not want it like that, I won't use something like that for them to find later and not be happy about.
If you use it when putting back together after engine has been rotated check your bearing for scratching/scuffing if is OK I would check again before putting pan on,you can mic and feel of it but assembled and rotating engine will tell you for sure it is smooth enough.If regrind there is rods .040and .060 and mains .040, I would guess that .010 more on rods is probably still going to leave groove is only going to remove .005 off each side of journal
Mike Taylor 3601

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Paul, Honda rod journals are 1.880 and bearings are commonly available for use with Chevy rods.

Just sayin'...... ;) -Al

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Sounds attractive, but I scoured Clevite's catalog and don't see any bearing that would work with the 2.125" big end on the rods. Looks like that would involve new rods...and that ain't gonna happen!

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Yes you can just takes a little time

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I believe.070'' is most undersize legal in stock,I think some FE's are allowed more to use bbc journal
Mike Taylor 3601

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Paul, I figured 'ya for a small journal guy! ;). Clevite and King offer .050 and .060 undersize.....maybe that wouldn't be a bad way to go? -Al

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I believe back in the day some creative racers built spacers held by dowel pins to get down to smaller journals on the crank to decrease bearing speed. Tech gave in and now we have Honda journals. BTW I was running 40 over king bearings with no problems but I don,t think you can get them in a full race bearing. Tom

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I've got a wire retainer story. And since it's winter, some of you guys don't have anything better to do than read an old racing tale, anyhow. :D It was the 1st race of the season in '75 at this little airstrip track, near Forest Hill, LA. We didn't even have the car painted or lettered yet. It was a '68 Bird 330hp 400 E/SA. When TJ ran the 1st round, we could hear the engine missing and popping. When she got back to the pits, we just loaded it on the trailer and sat down to watch the rest of the race.

Then we heard over the PA system that because they had put a car in the wrong class, they had decided to rerun the 1st round. So, we popped the hood and pulled the valve covers. We discovered one loose rocker, and the pushrod looked like it was too short.

So, we pulled the intake and valley cover and discovered the problem. The guts of a lifter were lying there in the valley. Don't know why they hadn't gone below. Anyhow, we put the lifter back together, adjusted the rocker and put everything else back on, just as the call came for us to come to the staging lanes for the rerun.

So, TJ fired it up, backed it off the trailer and won the race that day. :D After that deal, I never trusted the flimsy paper clip retainers.

A guy gave me my 1st 455 because the guts came out of a lifter in his '70 GTO. He thought the engine was knockin and about to croak. So he bought a low mileage junkyard 400, which I installed for him. After the install, he said I could have the 455 if I wanted it. When I took the valley cover off, I discovered that the guts had come out of one lifter. But in this engine, they went on down to the pan.

We raced this engine for 3 seasons, in 3 different bracket cars. Went to 49 races in '78. Probably made between 800 and 1000 passes with it. It was still running mid 12's like a sewing machine when I gave it and the car it was in, to a guy that was racing with us.

Anyhow, after those 2 experiences with the wire retainers, I bought nothing but Rhoads lifters from then on. They have the snap ring retainers. And they were great for running bracket with a stock converter--smooth idle, and plenty of low end torque. We made thousands of passes with 'em and never had a single failure.

I assume that they would have little to no benefit in a Stocker, because the converter would keep the RPM above 3000. But just for fun, I'll ask anyhow, have any of you guys ever used Rhoads lifters in a Stocker ?

I assume that to compete nowadays you need high spring pressures and limited travel tool steel lifters or some trick lifters of some kind. :confused:

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I have had the snap ring come out of a couple of lifters in my Buick 455 Stocker and my theory is that when you break a rocker arm the loose push rod hits that snap ring ,or in my case the mickey mouse little stainless keeper and pops it out and then that is when the lifter come apart.A good set of rocker arms will help this problem.

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Are the lifters you all are having clips coming out full travel lifters,being they have the wire clips I am going to guess they are. Over the years I have worked on cars that lost the clips out the lifters, I believe a lot of the time valve float is the cause of clips coming out,when engine goes into valve float it starts compressing lifters and or gets slack between pushrods, lifters and causes inside of lifter to bang against clip and pop them out.
Like several have said put snap rings in them will stop it and even better switch to short travel lifters,I have shimmed regular lifters to reduce travel, you have to have .015'' travel to be legal.
May need to up spring pressure also.
Mike Taylor 3601