If you could run a National event without the AHFS in place-
 

...and every pass you made at that event would not get you h.p., then which event would it be ? (much like the National Opens are now)

The event that comes to my mind would be Indy.

Think of the excitement it would generate if Stockers were not penalized for running quicker than .999 under their index.

Class run-offs would be more exciting.

Would it attract more newly built combos ?

I can see the plus points here, but would there be any drawbacks if NHRA was to try this idea at least once a year ?

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Alan - there is no penalty for running faster than .999 under .There is however a penalty for running more than 1.20 under .One second under will only bring a review and a look at your average .

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Gotta be POMONA, CAL for me.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Any event that they had no AHFS, but if you ran more than 1.20 automatic tear down.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

It has been suggested by SRAC for several years that the dreaded AHFS be dispensed with at Indy. It has been suggested by yours truly for more years than that a dispensation with the AHFS at Indy. I also suggested last year that the indexes for the Shoot Out cars was too liberal. I also suggested the same thing this year. Now if all the people that complained about the new cars in general and the 'no AHFS for Shoot Out cars' would howl, complain, post, send emails, and any other form of communications in the same volume and decibel level to NHRA about doing away with the AHFS at Indy, something might happen. Look what happened to the new cars. And the more the better, the earlier the better, so everyone could prep for Indy. They are taking 200 this year, all you have to do enter and step on it. Focus those energies on the AHFS leaving. It's gone mostly from National Opens. I'm sure someone will not like this. Sounds simple to me.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Yes Jack, that is true.
I view the review as penalty of sorts for going too fast, even if the penalty does not happen the following Tuesday.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

I had 3 national events in my head and the Winternationals was 2nd on the list. :)

I lived out there all through the 80's and loved watching the class cars at the Winternats and the World Finals.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Good point Jeff.
I believe if enough class racers sent respectful letters ( or e-mails ) to the person (or people) @ NHRA who could make a decision on this, it might be a start.

Who would be the best person to send them to ?

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

With the new mineshaft rule, some events (definitely including Indy) will be exempt from the 1.00 under trigger and runs toward averages, if the first qualified in the bottom half of the field is .85 under. The last qualifier at Indy was .88 under last year, so it would have qualified by a lot. 1.20 under rule still in place. Very, very few cars will be capable of 1.20 under at Indy, so there should be a lot of good 1320' racing!

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

The same people everyone complained to about the new cars. That includes all the tech people from each division, the National Tech Director, the Tech people in Indy(who make the decisions), the Division Directors, the other racers, the new car owners, you know, the same people everyone complained to about the new cars. It has worked.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

If they installed that rule there'd be a bunch of pissed off FS owners. Imagine them getting their butts whipped by the likes of some of them lower class cars capable of going about 2 seconds under unleashed. I'm sure the boys out in Glendora wouldn't be pleased either.Larry could unleash the truck on them, wouldn't that be something.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

No, not a good idea. Two thirds of the cars can't go a second under at Indy. It would be another gift.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

OK. Last year I proposed lowering all the indexes 2 tenths for all pre 2008 cars. All you old car people said "No No we would then get hit with hp. We can't control ourselves and need Depends.", OK it is what it is. Now myself along with many others propose no AHFS for Indy along with a plan on how to do it. Again "No No" we can't run that fast". I guess the new cars are still the problem. Hence Forth, all the new cars will be in a George Bush Eliminator. Hell old George caused it all including the new cars. So what do yall want. Keener threw it out there, we are leaving next year. Nobody likes us anyway. Maybe we need a shower at all events to wash the new car people. We already spent more than the National Debt buying multi letters (like multi multi) for these new cars anyway. Yall are going to cause me to turn Charley Bob loose. I been having a chain on him, but it's getting weak.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

I'm all for turning Charley Bob loose ...........And that George Bush thing could work out .10/4 on that National debt deal -- Social Security check money doesn't go as far as it once did .

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

No AHFS at Indy may be good for the sport and bring out some cars that are staying home.

BUT this does not fix the problem at other events where the shootout is contested.
How hard can it be to understand: The shootout must be a featured event.
In it's present format should not be part of stock qualifiying and eliminator.
It may not have mattered in the past and may not now but am sure someone will find a way to exploit it in the future.
There should be a level plaing field for all entries.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

It's messed up. You can't ask for anything else from the Stocker guys. Lowering the indexes would have kept unrestricted cars in a restricted category at Indy. That's enough of that. nhra is basically trying to build FX car numbers off the backs of the Stock Eliminator racers. It's the cheapest and dirtiest way to do it. I don't care which one of the new car guys come out here and try to hold on to this corrupt format. And I don't care what type of persuasion they attempt to use - it is wrong and every one of you know it. Jeff, how hard would it be for you to just go ahead and admit this isn't right and tell nhra you guys need your own eliminator for the FX cars? We are working with folks who know how to deal with these corporate issues so it will get done one way or the other. You guys would surly look a lot better if you asked for the change as well.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Guys the real question is when are yall going to realize that everyone agrees that the "new" car would like their own class. NHRA makes that decision and the HAVEN'T. Stop saying its the new cars guys who are beating yall up! We only fit in stock so for now own deal with it. If yall took as much time and effort and brought it to NHRA staff instead of coming on here and pointing fingers changes may be made. As it has been in the pass and still is to this day all the "new" cars have agreed with yall but at the same time keep working on our stuff to continue to bust yalls butts. This forum has NOTHING to do with NHRA so no one will make changes because of what is typed on here. Join together (as yall never have) and push the correct buttons.

Its funny how the new car guy suggest the for the same rules to be applied to the old cars yet that's still not good enough. This is a cruel world so some one will ALWAYS be faster than you.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Believe me we are working on it. This issue can be moved a lot quicker if you new car guys would organize and lobby for your own eliminator. And once again, this issue isn't about a cruel world or who is the fastest. It's about a sanctioning organization feeding off it's members. You guys could do a lot to stop it if you really cared about the sport. But you won't.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Bruce please look at thread subject......FS/x and FS/XX moving forward. I believe once again the new car guys have done just want you are asking of us. What is so funny is not many of you older car guys have comment on it.

What has the older car guys going to NHRA with as a plan for the cars who are faster than them? Im not talking about whats posted on this forum but what has actually been brought to NHRA? Also who's fault is it that some of the older cars cant run 1 sec under? We should stop trying to make better cars because the older cars cant run 1 sec under..? I say we have a pre 1990 (wait is this old enough) eliminator for all the cars that are old! LMAO the older cars had there claim to fame in their day now they have new blood.

Just think if the Kentucky Derby quit running because some of the original horse weren't fast anymore. Im sure they have horses that cost way more than our "new" cars.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Joseph, where do I start? It's not about the performance of old versus new. It's about allowing the new cars to have serious advantages over the older cars while each attempts to qualify. The Kentucky Derby is a perfect example for my point. I'm glad you brought it up. The Kentucky Derby is for 3 year olds only. Each horse has to carry the exact same weight, 126 pounds. There is no bias. All horses, jockeys, trainers, owners, fans and bettors are treated exactly the same. There is no advantage. But that is not the case with the new cars qualifying against the older cars on the same sheet. That would be like allowing a four year old Grade 1 winner with 110 pounds on his back to compete in the Derby. No serious racing organization would ever allow it. Any organization trying such a stunt would be immediately discredited and become irrelevant.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

the biggest way to make a point is don't show up at those races.

Bruce you sir are an unhappy person.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Joseph - those wouldn't be the words I'd use but you are spot on for sure and most would agree with you ........And no one is forcing us to do this .

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Life is good. Having a race car and racing is gooder!

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Joseph I believe that you may be missing the entire point here. Us Old Car guys are racing cars that were actually bought off of dealer showroom floors, licensed, driven on the street and are now race cars. The new cars have created a LOT of interest and brought some new blood into Stock Eliminator (good thing) but because of the HP changes and ratings from the factories it is somewhat difficult to compete against the new cars. Letting the new cars run without a AHFS penalty at some races has not helped.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

No, the biggest way to make a point is by hiring the right help. And just because you can not make a coherent defense of your point of view and I can - does not make me an unhappy person. You have resorted to this lame comment in the past when you could not defend your position. So must tell you that I'm totally happy with myself. And yes Jack nobody makes me go racing. You are such a profound fellow. Where does all that wisdom come from?

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Bruce
These fellows know exactly what the conversation is all about.
There are no comments specifically on the one valid point of contention.
They are just screwing with ya because they know how passionate you are.
If not thay have more money than brains.

NHRA does read these threads and do take seriiouis comments and consider them. This venue is a sounding board for racers and great source for them.

There are many great cars that have been parked for years now because of the new cars unfair advantages. Separating them in to thier own classes is bringing some back out.

The purpose of the SRAC is to be the voice of the racer our representatives should be getting the point across to NHRA . The communication we receive from our division rep shows it is working there is just this one point of contention that needs to be addressed:
The shootout cars should not be part of the regular eliminator or on the qualifying sheet if runs are not part of AHFS. Simple stuff.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Sir I can back my stance if need be. Can you make NHRA hire new help? All I was suggesting was take control of the only thing you can do by not going to the races. Maybe NHRA would see a lower car count and take yall serious. And I'm not making a coherent defense? I believe I said in an earlier post that we agree with you but NHRA makes the rules not us.

I say VOTE BRUCE head of NHRA, he's got this figured out! :D

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

You're right Frank. They remind me of the Black Knight character from the Monty Python movie Holy Grail.

Joseph,
To clarify, my comment about hiring the right help did not mean hiring the right help to work for nhra.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

I was wasting my time.....

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Cour, as usual, you are correct.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Jeff: Charlie Bob is chained to the cooler and lounge chair, next to my pool. Sunning himself, looking pretty comfortable. Let me know if I need to rattle the chains and let him loose. -Jim -

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Not being a stock eliminator racer, trying to figure out this thread. please correct me if i am wrong, The argument here all comes down to the qualifying position.
I think the only race last year that was not all run was Indy?

What are the other concerns here?

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

It's about a level playing field: the Factory Shootout Entries runs are not part of AHFS the shootout itself is a separate race but entries are on the same qualifying sheet and can race in the same elimionator as regular Stock Eliminator Entries who's runs are part of AHFS.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Maybe some of our members and guests could share how they were personally affected by the shootout cars recently .........

And we must remember - every era had a group of cars that won too much ...

During the sixties the 55-57 Chevy's ( remember the Hydramatic? )
During the seventies Mopar's had a lock with wierd combo's
During the eighties Oldsmobile won everything with their 307
During the nineties the Fuel Injected LT1's played havoc
During the 00's the LS Series cars really came alive

And now we have a whole new group of killers.............And they too will pass ! ! !

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Jack, excellent. I did not know a car guy could have such insightful theories. I have another theory. Bruce is a Democrat. Please don't tell me Charlie Bob is a Democrat

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

And ya know Jack, thinking about it, YOU'VE had them all except for the weird Mopars!

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

This means absolutely ZERO today. The fact that nhra screwed it's members in the past and the members allowed it does not mean that it is acceptable today. Jeff you are applauding a corrupt process. Not at all surprising because what is good for Jeff is all that counts. Everybody else can pound sand. Right!

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Mr. Bruce do you still wear your letterman jacket?

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Reduced to gibberish. That's all you have left?

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

No AHFS for anyone EVER!! No lead trophies for going fast ever!! Index is set by the record. Run faster then the index you get torn down and checked for legality and if passed index changed and you get bonus points for setting a record. Everything heads up run what you brung and hope you brung enough!!!

But these sneetches have no stars upon thars!!