NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

I seriously doubt it will work. It will require a return to the constantly changing weight breaks that were killing the class 35 years ago. Or some form of factoring as seen in Stock Eliminator and Super Stock. That will discourage both OE corporations and teams from investing the millions of dollars required to field a Pro Stock operation.

Pro Stock is actually struggling because of NHRA's failure to properly market drag racing.

If they were really smart, changes to the classes themselves would be minimal, at most, for 2-3 years. See what actually broadcasting and promoting the sport does first, and then see if changes are needed.

The multiple weight break format that somewhat allowed widely varying engine combinations to compete on a marginally level playing field barely survived 10 years. The 500 cubic inches and 2350 pounds format has kept Pro Stock fairly viable for almost 35 years, well into the era during which NHRA failed miserably in promoting the sport to the point where multiple championship contenders either fell by the wayside or barely survived due to the inability to obtain and retain sponsors.

Pro Stock is not struggling because of 500 cubic inch engines. Pro Stock is struggling because practically no one ever sees them race, and as such, few sponsors are willing to spend massive amounts of money on the class. Championship contenders and racers with dozens of wins could not get money to race. The "big three" are not suddenly going to step up and fully fund a 16 car field just because they use stuff found on the new factory race cars.

Could Pro Stock improve with some rule changes? Sure. A wholesale rewriting the engine rules in hopes of inciting a "factory war" which will require continued participation by all the OE corporations on a large scale, however, is not likely to work. Remember, both Ford and Chrysler have pulled out more than once rather than spend money on an engine program to compete with GM. Let a few OE combinations get penciled a few times as they were 35 years ago and see what happens.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

JR. pro stock we need it

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

Pro stock and comp eliminator fields are shrinking, due to Nobama ....we are running out of Millionaires......LOL......M.J.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

But a significant increase in Billionaires!!!!!!!!

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

How about taking away points or fining them for incomplete or abandoned runs. No one wants to sit through a session of 12 out of 16 cars making 60ft runs. Same For FC and TF.

Or give them points for completing the run. Either way, It will get more exciting.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

It's about time pro stock moves into this century. They cannot attract young fans with antique carburators. Good move.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

I hope they do something about those ugly-*** hood scoops while they're at it.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

So, your plan is to either punish drivers and/or car owners for bad track conditions, or convince them to wreck their cars to add to the excitement. Great plan. Stay in the throttle and crash, or get fined, because the track sucks.

After all, the fans are sure to find sitting through an extra 8 hours of clean up from wrecks and oil downs enthralling, the tractors, wreckers, and grease sweep will have them on the edges of their seats.

The down time is sure to convince Fox what a great idea it was to broadcast drag racing, too.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

Drag racing will be a side show like monster trucks in 10, to 15 years.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

NHRA has to do something to get Ford and Chrysler back into it. 14 Camaros and 2 Dodges just doesn't excite me anymore. Only one Dodge has a legitimate chance to win and he did last weekend. I was good with Glidden crushing everyone back in the day. :D

Fords Rule!

Jeff :)

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

Change to the Pro Stock class could be a good thing in terms of sponsorship dollars and fan interest, but, as Alan pointed out, NHRA is opening a brand new can of worms. The engines are all different, the cars are aerodynamically different, etc. It will be interesting to see how those issues are handled. Performance-wise, it should be fun to watch. P.B. Candies went 7.85 at Indy over 1000 lbs. heavier than the current Pro Stock minimum. Granted, that was a 4.0L blower (as opposed to 2.3L or 2.9L on the FS cars), but that may very well end up being what those cars run in the new "Pro Stock" too. The rules will have to be much more liberal than FS to make the differentiation between the two obvious to Joe Blow fan as well.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

When I read about possible PS changes, the first car I thought about was the P.B. Candies CJ Mustang.

My idea would be to take a Super Stocker like that and allow any cu.in. ( up to 500) so long as the outside dimensions of the block are the same as factory issue. So any bore /stroke.

Use a factory body template as a go- no-go gauge and allow fiberglass doors, trunk lid, etc.


My question tho is, will the new PS be required to be naturally aspirated ?
Or...allow the blowers that are legal in S/S ?

Ever how that NHRA does this, the new PS cars will have to be a step above the current Super Stockers.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

They already had it,, it was called Pro Stock Truck: 358 ci limit - 5 speed gearboxes and 7 second ETs. I loved it and thought it was the ultimate small-block/ stick shift class. NHRA didn't think so I guess,,, they killed it. Thanks NHRA!
Danny Durham

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

I agree with Danny,Pro Stock truck was exciting,to me anyway.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

So, your problem with Pro Stock is pretty much that there are no weight breaks or handicaps, everybody gets 500 cubic inches and 2350 pounds, and the same rules, but your favorite OE corporation won't make the effort to compete. So, they need to throw 300 pounds on the Chevrolets, and make them pull a plug wire if they are not racing another Chevrolet. Got it, thanks. Wonder why Alllen Johnson and Mopar don't need that?

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

I'll offer some constructive suggestions for improving Pro Stock.

First, get rid of the goofy bodies, go back to pure production bodies, or bodies in white, checked by templates. All steel. One small spoiler, no wicker bill, no spill plates, set 30 degree angle, body width, 6" tall. Stock wheelbase. Maximum. 6" hood scoop height. Maximum 16" X 33" slick. Fuel injection, 1500 cfm throttle body, maximum of two. No exotic materials in the engine, or anywhere else in the power train. Leave the current 500 cubic inch, 2350#, 5 forward speeds, manually shifted format in place. We're already asking teams to build all new cars and move to fuel injection. Forcing them to an entirely new power train program simply is not economically feasible or fiscally wise.

Make the cars look like production cars with slicks and a small hoodscoop. Fuel injected, since carburetors are apparently an evil relic of the dinosaur era. Leave the 5 year rule in place, two door rear wheel drive sport coupe only.

That allows the current power train programs to remain relatively intact, while moving into the fuel injected era, with cars fans can relate to, and keeping performance close to where it is, with an even set of relatively simple rules that are the same for everyone. Maybe Ford will play, maybe they won't, but if Chevy and Mopar will, then Ford has no excuse.

The new television contract combined with the marketing program should make it more attractive for OE corporations and sponsors.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

Pay attention to the Factory Shootouts at select NHRA events and you will see where the Pro Stock replacement is coming from.

The factory wars are just getting started...........and the crowd goes wild!!!!!

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

What crowd?

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

If you have ever have a chance to attended a NMRA Factory Cobra Jet Shootout in Bradenton,Florida you will see some great crowds and a lot of interest in these factory race cars.
John Calvert over Chris Holbrook

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

Like Alan described and limit them to 400 CID small block engines like the Australian Pro Stock classes.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

This sounds like the way to go -

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

What do they do about aerodynamic differences? The Challenger and Camaro are both much larger cars than the Mustang in terms of frontal area (or so it appears to my naked eye, anyway...) and presumably have a larger drag coefficient, which will be even more apparent at 215 mph than it is at 165-170 mph. I love the idea of going back to stock appearing bodies, but there's a reason NHRA went away from that in the first place.

Scale down the bigger car(s)?? I'm no engineer, obviously. The changes are exciting. If nothing else, there will be short-term renewed interest in the class.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

The further they get from factory bodies, the worse the class gets, and the less the spectators identify with the class and cars.

Part of the reason for the body rules was that everyone went to FWD, and conversions of bodies that don't fit the rules. Give them a wheelbase range to work in and leave the bodies stock.

If the factories want to race, they'll build a competitive body. They did it for years. They can do it now.

To address another post, I don't think 400 cubic inches and "Australian" blocks works. Leave the long block alone, it allows teams to use most of what they have and keeps performance close to where it is.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

the new 2016 Camaro body is smaller in size than the 2015 body.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

Instead of making it where all manufacturers want to participate lets keep it an all GM class and bore everyone silly. Why watch when you know a Camaro is going to win. How competitve has AJ been this season, up until the last race he hasn't. V Gaines is a nice guy but it will take a near miracle for him to get a win. I do wish Ford would get involved. I would watch with more interest. Sorry, just my 2cents.

Jeff

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

The attendance on Thursday at Indy has definitely increased the last couple of years because of the Factory Stock Showdown. I don't know if you would call it a crowd; but it is certainly heading in that direction.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

I like the way you are thinking. This idea might need some refining to make it work, but you are on the right track. With the new S/S cars capable of mid to high 7's, what would it take to run 7.0's or quicker?? The bodies should remain as close to stock as possible (no more goofy bodies), and work on removing unneeded items to lighten them a bit (say 2500 min.) What did P.B.Candies car weigh when it went 7.859 at Indy last year?? Well over 3000 lbs. I am sure.


Danny, I too, liked Pro Stock Truck. Shame on NHRA for getting rid of that program.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

The class was dying when they were catering the rules to suit a given combination. It does not work. Any brief spike seen in attendance and participation when it is tried is short lived, at best.

The rules are the same for everyone right now. You have 2350 pounds, 500 cubic inches, and 5 manually shifted forward speeds for everyone, GM, Ford, and Chrysler. The only thing keeping Ford out of Pro Stock is Ford, period, plain and simple. It is unfortunate for Ford fans that Ford is not willing to put forth the effort, but that is a decision that Ford has made, despite the efforts of guys such as Morgan and Cunningham, among others.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

427-429-426 gm-ford-chry small block push rod engines
stick shift (no pro stock trans)
all steel bodies except hood
10 inch tires

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

That is one of the stupidest things I have ever read. They should drive the cars until they end up in the wall or up side down? Get real dude.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

Alan the "oracle' of Class Racer......you always seem to have an "long winded" answer for everything.......... but seem non receptive to anything that doesn't align with your way of thinking.
500 inch engines and carbs are , in fact , archaic....... no longer appropriate for or indicative of , anything coming from the big 3. That concept should have died 30 years ago.
Pro Stock truck sucked , frankly , because like myself , most didn't CARE for a "truck" as a platform for a drag car. That should have been applied to the CARS..
As I stated in another thread......this will be interesting to see who cries the loudest and what new life is injected in to ProStock .

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

Ford saw Pro Stock as a bottomless money pit, with no return on investment, to say they are not in Pro Stock because of that is a clueless statement. Same for them dumping John Force, no reason to spend $$$ with little or no return, same as Castrol did.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

Thanks joe. Have a nice day.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

Ok, I'll give you that. We need to work in the right direction, but it needs to be locally.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

I think it will be a good change for the class interesting to see what will happen. Wonder what Drew Skillman thinks on this ?

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

I sent this letter to NHRA today. Not expecting much out of it, but I felt it needed to be said.


As you know, I am in the process of building a PS car. I keep hearing these rumors online, and hearing the BS spewed by people that have no clue, "keyboard racers". It offends me when people slam the class that people like me have looked up to their whole lives.
I am well aware that your organization owns the sand box that I play in, and I will as always abide by the rules of whatever class I choose to run in, but it scares me when I hear that you want to make wholesale changes to a mainstay of NHRA drag racing.
I feel that it is opportunistic to say that it needs "fixing" because of poor car counts, when every class there has poor turnout. I remember when there were 100 ss cars at a points meet, when now there are 50. Does that need fixing as well?
If the class is made so the "average" racer can do it, what will happen is a bunch of people will jump in the first year, then after they figure out that the same people that dominated before, will continue to do so, they will go back to racing whatever they were before, or quit, which no one needs.
The argument is commonly made that "new cars dont have carburetors". Well, new cars also have 4 doors, and front wheel drive, so why dont the keyboard racers lobby for a class for them also.
The problem as I see it is, the people dont know about, or care about the drivers. There arent many driver/tuners/builders like there used to be. Everyone has a big wallet and rents a motor, or car, blows their wad, then when they run out of money, they quit.
If the rules are changed, the people with the most money/manpower are going to dominate, then rent motors to the others, and we are right back to where we are.

I have spent around 150K on my project so far, and am actually real close to putting the engine in the car to go test. I feel like now I have to hurry up before our class is gone.

I have listened to (name withheld by me) spew about how PS sucks, and the new cars are the way to go, and feel that as a marketing person, his arguments are self serving, and good for no one.

The new cars arent bringing "new" blood into the sport, how many young racers do you know that can spend 90k on a car to run stock? The buyers of those cars are more rich guys, that know nothing about the roots of drag racing.

I dont know if I will see you at indy this year, I think I am going to stay here and try to get my new car ready so I can run it before its obsolete.

thanks
cw

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

Hey, It was just a suggestion. I thought This Was A talk Forum To discuss different ideas and subjects. You don't need to make stupid negative comments on suggestions.


I have seen alot Heavier Cars with Smaller tires and alot more motor get down a track Half as good as a National Event Prepped Surface. Not really any reason a pro stock car can't get down the track.

Pro Stock is my Favorite Class. I also Liked Pro Stock Truck.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

Well said. Couldn't agree with you more. Pro Stock does not need fixed! Give em hell, Charlie.

Re: NHRA ProStock changes coming!
 

[QUOTE=russellauto1;476734]Hey, It was just a suggestion. I thought This Was A talk Forum To discuss different ideas and subjects. You don't need to make stupid negative comments on suggestions.


I have seen alot Heavier Cars with Smaller tires and alot more motor get down a track Half as good as a National Event Prepped Surface. Not really any reason a pro stock car can't get down the track.

Pro Stock is my Favorite Class. I also Liked Pro Stock Truck.

When was the last time YOU ran a Pro Stock car down a race track ? And exactly how many times did these "Heavier cars with Smaller tires get down the track ?