Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

Anyone else feel this way? It seems that Super Comp (at least in D1) is getting to be out of control. It seems that the computer programs,& weather stations killed the class. Cars, & equiptment, are the race anymore. Every car down the track is 8.91 to 8.88. there is NO driver advantage anymore, and it is getting frustrating. We may as well flip coins in the lanes, would come up with the same result. 50/50.

in your opinion what could be done with .90 class racing to put the driver back into this racing?

eliminate tstop timers?
eliminate tstops?
make it a .3 pro tree?
change index?
Ect.

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

Personally coming from someone who has supported the .90 Classes for a long time I think what could have been done to eliminate the issue you are talking about has been bypassed and it's too late. I said a few years ago and a few track owners agreed with me is that we should have put a MPH limit on the classes. I understand the reason is still to go 8.90 or 9.90 but, if your the car being chased all the time it gets old and after you lose xxx amount of times you give up and go bracket racing or you build something bigger and badder and then it turns into a "Keeping up with the Joneses" mentality and for one it pushes the younger crowd almost out of .90 racing. Can anyone in D1 name 20 drivers in Super Gas under the age of 40? It's a tough thing and as someone told me before "We took something so simple as from going point A to B and screwed that up and made it uninteresting."

Chris, not sure what the answer is, I'd say index change but, it would only mean people building bigger and bigger motors to be the "Big Dog." I mean T/D hasn't gotten totally out of control in D1 yet but, it's getting crazy in other Divisions, so alot of those cars that can run 6.70's are running Super Comp. Maybe adding a 7.50 / 7.90 class to the mix with no stops allowed and maybe a cubic inch placement on how big you can go. I also think you need to really hammer down on those who have something that helps with the ET's. I know they are checking the grids at some D1 events but, I really haven't heard anything about why. I wish I had the answer and I know talking to Dad at Cecil you were going to enjoy Super Stock for awhile. Hopefully there is an answer out there.

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

Instant green and no reaction time on your slip...that would put the driver back in the game...although I think it's fine now......say hello to your "old man" for me!

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

Frustrating? Yes, but the technology advances make this happen. Where do you think we will be in a couple more years? Change the rules absolutely, NO! You want to change the rules, then some people are going to be left out. Of all the super classes, do you know if they ever changed the rules. And if they did, did some racers benefit, and some not? I think the way they do the runs is amazing. I decided a while back that I cannot do what the racers are doing with the big motors and MPH. So I race within my budget and try to put together a package. I get chased 95% of the time, and it is usually me that makes the mistake. Sounds like you lost a close one. The racing is the way it is, and I will try to do my best. I don't try to keep up with the big dogs, I can't. Don't go to changing the rules cause you are frustrated. Give it a few days to think about. Want to have some fun, try taking of your throttle stop and timers and see if you can run the number

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

I was in Topeka this past weekend. During TTs D5 runs the Karl Performance Shootout for the Super classes. On Sat, the bump, the SC, for the 8 car field was 8.903.
There were 26 cars that ran 8.90x in that session.
In my opinion, it is too late to fix the problem.
The cat is out of the bag.
1. There will not be a limit put on cubic inches, due to the fact that someone (NHRA) must enforce the new rule. Too many cars, not enough time and manpower.
2. There will not be a limit put on speed. Too many manufacturers are too invested in the big cylinder heads and related go-fast parts.
3. There will not be a limit on electronics because of # 2 above.
4. Maybe a new index, 7.90. That would be short-lived. All the TD cars that can't run 6.40s will be in there running 7.90/210 and cramming on the brakes. Not to mention the burden on adding another contingency issue for the manufacturers.

A ban on electronics, would've limited the high horsepower engines being needed.
I'm sure that companies like Dart, Brodix, and the long list of horsepower building companies would be crippled by a ban on electronics.
When SG first started, 9.70/136 was a quick car in the class. Nowadays that car would be in SST and still be in the slower group.
We are probably our own worst enemy. The essence of competition.
Dan Foley
SC 4698

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

Not to mention the cars are expensive all those topless roadsters aint cheap

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

I ran my Camaro at cecil this weekend in super street with no throttle stop or timers. I had a lot of doing it that way. Ran a 10.900 on Fridays last run and a 10.906 first round. It was nice not worrying about the weather and what to put in my timer because I didn't have one. Just good old fashion racing

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

I think traction control should be legal. They allow timers, throttle control,. That is, if you want some changes in the rules, also get rid of courtesy staging. No blue light special, which means you can let the top bulb go out and not go red. Also after both drivers are prestaged, you have 5 seconds to stage or you go red. I really don't want to change the rules, but if they do, this is what I want. The five second rule after prestage is for staging games. Let's race. Steve Williams S/G 351N. Let the timers and throttle controlled stay, but the starting line is where it should be changed.

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

There is no question the racing is tight... Last 2 races (D1) I've been on the loosing end of .001 mov. It's tough to take when a .020 8.909 puts you on the trailer 1st round.

I know it will never happen but If there was a way to do away with people holding numbers.... Couple years ago setting up for a .88 was the norm, today guys setting up at .84/.80....... I say Set them up honest and let them fly!!!!! I guess the only way would be to put a limit on MPH variation from qualifying, like pinks use to do.

I also think they should do away with the coin toss for lane choice, make qualifying count for something. Either higher qualified car gets lane choice or higher of last round.

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

personally I think lowering the index on all 3 classes a full second would help the classes. Most all can run that fast now. Might make things a little more attractive to the couple of fans that are in the stands. I have no dog in the fight so this is just my impression.

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

All the super classes are getting this way. What I think would be fun and put some back into the drivers hands is to change the index every round. For example let first round be a X.90, then the winners would get the new index for next round on their time slip. Lets say next round is X.83 and this could go on and vary 2 tenths from slow to fast for the entire duration of the event. This not only puts it in the drivers hand but also the tuners hand as well. Too many people have found the .90 number and do not change the stop numbers.
Just my thoughts

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

Interesting idea....
I can guarantee it's not as easy as finding the .90 number and leaving it. Lol

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

This is nothing new and yes has gotten much worse. I have won rounds by .001 and lost by the same amount or less.....going back over 10 years. Lost in rd 1 at a Lucas race by .0006 and had a ..010 RT and ran a 8.903....2004 That one hurt but the opponent was one of the best drivers there is....

The only advantage is MPH and everyone knows it and most have moved up but as everyone moved up nothing changed....except we are going faster and using the brakes can get you in trouble a lot easier...

I am also one who thinks the indexes should have been sped up and now 7.90 is not too fast for S/C. It won't change the tight racing but at least it wouldn't look as bad with less stop time....

If you win today it is as much luck as skill to me.....

The latest-greatest devices sure seem to be making it even tighter...

At a recent MASCA race in June....I think about 7 cars cars went 8.90x during time runs for qualifying......there was maybe 32-34 cars

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

This isn't a big MPH question, its just trying to put a driver back into the race. I have been losing close ones all year. Total loss out of 4 races is under .020. I'm not asking to change it because I'm getting bad beats. Im saying it is getting crazy how close the racing is and there is not advantage for a good driver (at least in D1)

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

i like it....

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

Rob, the reason they were checking the grids, was to make sure they never had and ARC module connected to them (MSD traction control) as is illegal for NHRA racing. But how do you thing the Street Outlaws control them on the street...

And yes I had a BLAST racing in SS this weekend. I will be doing it again. I lost a good race, thought i was holding more than I was, killed my et to make a double over round....oh well.... will try again at Etown.

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

How about full tree, (get rid of pro light) and no delay boxes. Just throttle stops. Lets see how well you hit the bottom with a 6sec car

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

What He said^^^^.

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

Says the bottom bulb racer. Index racing is the future, just a matter of when.

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

I run S/G not S/C, but I feel, that on average the cars are 20 mph faster than I run. Some are almost 30 mph. I say go to instant green, and only the stage light to stage, no pre stage lite.

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

I was thinking some more on this subject and more towards what Chris said about everyone being between .88 and .91 on time. I was at Cecil County watching over the weekend (Sat & Sun) and know they got 3 time runs on Friday and 1 on Saturday plus you had the Top 8 Shootout on Friday Night if you had wished to partake. We all know for most .90 racers you need two runs to get your ratio. You run a mid-80 run and a mid-90 run to get your computer to get you that ever so important "Middle ratio" that you hope will put you on a .900 on the next run. Now if you ran the shootout at Cecil and won you have already made 7 hits on your car by 1st round. To me if your not dead-on and at least a teen on the tree after 7 runs you should maybe pack up and go home. I know with the MASCA series we give everyone two shots in the morning and by the time first round comes around everyone is pretty deadly with their dial and on the tree. I mean we had someone lose with a .006 thousandths package at our last race at Atco. I mean I know none of us pull into a track and go "Boy I hope I'm a .050 on the tree this weekend" but, when you give so much extra runs to his the tree and dial your car it becomes a no brainier that you should be .000 and .900 on the your runs. Unfortunately, Friday is a long day so I'm not sure if you do 1 time run on Friday and 1 on Saturday without having people up in arms about not getting any runs. It's a catch 22 anyways you look at it.

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

I really don't see the problem. What I am reading is everybody expounding on what the weakness is in their program. If the driver wasn't part of the program anymore, then you wouldn't have some drivers that win a lot more than others. But we do. Not sure how computers have made the racing tighter either. 15 years ago they were running within two of the index too. No computers. And then we have those who are upset about how much others are holding. If you can race em honest and run the number, then do it. If holding is that much of an advantage, then do it! And remember that a super fast car often had trouble judging a much slower car. So show those fast cars who is boss with a slow car. And if the driver isn't part of the equation, then why is holding a problem?

Please please please let's not whine our way into ruining a decent class. S/C racing is fun, and I enjoy it. And I tend to win some rounds when I go s/c racing. In a small block car that is 11 years old. Go figure.

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

Didn't Luke B. just win the Brainerd Nats, B.G., and Indy in s/c back to back to back? Maybe superior talent can still dominate in this class.

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

If you win today it is as much luck as skill to me.....

I have to agree with Rich - winning (in any class not just SC) is a about an equal amount of skill & luck. No one can control what happens in the other lane. You can lay down a near perfect run, and from time to time, have an opponent be a just a hair better (on that pass) and get the win when your package might have been enough to beat everyone else in that round. That can be particularly frustrating if it happens at a few consecutive races.
I've experienced the same thing over the years in SS & stock.
The flip side?? Sometimes you have a killer package in a round when you don't need it, like where an average package would have won it.... only to have an average package in the next round and get drilled by someone with a killer package. That's just the way break out racing is - I think there might be a little bit of an advantage to the higher mph car in general, but personally I don't see it as any advantage. There are strategies the driver of slower car can utilize to guard against a strategy of a faster car holding & pacing.
From a mental preparation perspective - if a racer goes into a round feeling like they are at a disadvantage it is going to have an effect their game..... their reaction time.... or maybe the wrong decision or second guessing at the finish line.
Anyway - that's my perspective on things (having only raced SC a few times).
I have found some things to be the same as bottom bulb racing - know your car, be prepared, pay attention, & focus on your own game.
It might be because it's something different and a new challenge to me, but I think it is an absolute blast and I wouldn't be in a rush to change anything (except possibly the index).
Going to a 5 second staging rule, or an instant green would make the results more chaotic I believe - one resulting in more red lights and the other more late lights - the better drivers would have more of an advantage. IMO - the current rules work pretty well to equalize the playing field. That's what I think, for whatever it's worth.

Re: Super Comp getting to be rediculous
 

anybody looking to enter SG or SC at Keystones, send me a "im" or e-mail.
I'm pulling our entry and will wait till your ready to enter