HP on monday
 

well i see my old pal the caddy is getting enough HP tommorrow to get into T/SA on a permanent basis ...

and two of the ford 302 -hp gifted cars hit the trigger and will get a review...
which would be almost a moot point if the NHRA division 3 (usually a good crew) had DONE THIER JOB IN ST LOUIS when another gifted 302 went -1.31 AND SKIPPED THE SCALES allowing him to manipluate the AHFS (remember the tool NHRA says will fix all this BS) .... cmon guys help a brother out if your gonna give away HP at least follow your own rules !!!!!!!

the captain

Re: HP on monday
 

I don't think you've seen the last of the Caddy in U/SA

Re: HP on monday
 

If you don't believe Jack, watch the run for yourselves. I do not know how to post a link on here, so you have to search the D3TV on you tube. Look for Friday, Aug 7th and look at the 36.30 minute mark. It's there in black and white... well actually color!

Re: HP on monday
 

Wow, right there on D3 TV, just like the film Oceans Eleven when Julia Roberts told her boyfriend.....the camera is always on and somebody is always watching. M.J.

Re: HP on monday
 

Not at a place to do long division but I believe he only had two hits and he took a double however if not hope he's coming to Indy he can have more

Re: HP on monday
 

Jack, Cadillac stills can run U/SA, change year from 1977 to1979, intake & throttle body change.Tom

Re: HP on monday
 

Jack, I just checked and the caddy is not on the list for Indy - still room though.


The car went 13.63 Q1, then 13.436 in class 1 and then 13.504 in 1st round of eliminations. Do those all count as hits or not?? Just curious.

Re: HP on monday
 

Maybe it's my medication's talking, but I just watched the video that Rob posted & in Q1 I thought 1 of the mustang's went .32 & the Caddy went .08. I'll watch it again tomorrow to check.


EDIT: the time was right on the Stang but the Caddy went .04 in E1 in 2014. ( I watched more than 1 of Robz vids )

Re: HP on monday
 

Now Jack, you know I love the wagon and the 283, but..... If we are talking gifts. Well you know. You got a little something in your Christmas stocking also. :). ( just to be fair to the gifted Ford guys) :).

Re: HP on monday
 

Just read your time slip, then drive past the scales and the run will be thrown out? That does not say much for the fool proof AHFS.

Re: HP on monday
 

Don't forget the old west coast drain the water out before crossing the scales trick!!!!!

Re: HP on monday
 

Captain, this is U/SA so I doubt if anyone really cares? But I will say this,if this same scenario happened in A, B, or C/SA it would be front page news and everyone would be jumping up and down. I am shocked that this BS happened in D3. M.J.

Re: HP on monday
 

jim you are RIGHT but hey that was last christmas a year ago, and a 7 year ordeal to get what ya'll had ... and what good was it i'm the 4-5 fastest U/SA car around ... just a slug !

however if i take a hit ill take it like a man, i wont slink past the scales like a cheater.

captain jack .

Re: HP on monday
 

Looks as though the caddy received 14 HP, and the 302 Ford received 6 HP. M.J.

Re: HP on monday
 

happy monday :)

captain jack

Re: HP on monday
 

I will give you that Captain. I know it isn't the first time someone magically came up light at a scale in D 3 to avoid a hit. Maybe d3TV should put a scale cam online :).

Re: HP on monday
 

Capt. Jack,
If you knew the man, you would agree that he's not a cheater. Obviously you don't and you're just complaining because you're not fast enough.
That 302 is a $6,500 dime rocket, right combo at the right time.

Re: HP on monday
 

It would be different if NHRA didn't give 40 loopholes to 40 ford combinations.
In defense of the Captain. He shows up and runs his junk at Indy time and time again and always qualifies.
If your going to throw darts you need to show up and run him. He's a great competitor.

PS give the captain and me 20 plus free horsepower and we will have a field day with our real U cars.

Re: HP on monday
 

Frankie, I DO know the man and I ain't buyin' that one.

Re: HP on monday
 

Mark,
1) I also complained about "soft" combinations when I raced.
2) No disrespect to the Captain, he is a great racer.
3) The man in question is simply not a cheater.

Re: HP on monday
 

Since you seem to know the man. How about you or he explain exactly why he skipped the scales.

Re: HP on monday
 

How did the 302 get HP I didn't see it on a qualify sheet or in elimination, am I blind (yes I do wear glasses) or is this cause they passed the scale and they gave it to him anyway?

Re: HP on monday
 

Only to comment that maybe some might refer to discussions of a lb/cubic inch class where people all had the same parts to make fast and winning wasn't based on reportedly bogus hp ratings....What if the class were only 283 cars or 302 cars if it must be factored method?

Re: HP on monday
 

Maybe the answer is to give the time slips at the scales instead of before you get to them. That would help solve the problem
Chuck

Re: HP on monday
 

That's right but dees just got 7 HP

Re: HP on monday
 

The root of this whole problem lies with the NHRA's inability to correct or even admit to it's mistakes.

Re: HP on monday
 

I do know the man, and I tend to agree normally a stand up guy > who intentionally skipped the scales to circumvent the RULES and AHFS.

Billy in this case division 3 (upon D3TV review) did correct a mistake and ASAP !!!

As far as soft combos, if it doesn't have a FS on it, it seems like they all fall in U/SA
if Pat C ever approves a "new" HP for a car in A/B/C stock there would be a revolt like no other but down here in the poor guys classes they DUMP that BS on us every year...

anyway the captain will be at indy in U/SA come get ya some :)

jack

Re: HP on monday
 

Bingo !!

Re: HP on monday
 

Frank, I was specifically talking about the $6500 figure...That's all.
Having just tried to put something together on the cheap, I can't see a V8 car being built at this number.
Paul Wong and Billy covered the rest of it...

Re: HP on monday
 

I only did what a lot times was done in the past, and I am sure it will happen again. I did not run to 1000 ft and dump!!!!!! I payed the price and will take my medicine. Now I am T car it is what it is, by the way I have been to the barn four times.

Re: HP on monday
 

Great statement. Kudos. :)
I haven't figured out what is "cheating" about passing the scales. It just seems like savvy racing to me.

Re: HP on monday
 

Mark you have a PM.

Captain Jack,
I wish you nothing but the best at Indy.l

Re: HP on monday
 

I only put this here, because it was brought to my attention several years back.


Race Procedures, Section 2, Page 10


WEIGHING OF VEHICLE/FUEL CHECK


Under no circumstances may a competitor reject scaling his or


her vehicle or fuel check. Any competitor who runs quicker than


any of his or her previous runs during the event in Top Fuel,


Funny Car, Pro Stock, Pro Stock Motorcycle, Top Alcohol


Dragster, Top Alcohol Funny Car, Pro Mod, Comp, Super Stock,


or Stock and fails to report to post-run inspection (scales or fuel


check) will be disqualified from the event. The event will be


charged against the competitor’s points events with a zero (0)


point counting toward the driver’s claimed races.






The only part of the wording I have a problem with is the first sentence, because what constitutes "Rejecting". I thought it was very common practice that if you went slower than a previous elapsed time (in qualifying), you could bypass the scales.

Re: HP on monday
 

yep

Re: HP on monday
 

When NHRA refactored the Ford 302 and it put several combos into U/SA the whole racing world screamed "WRONG". People were predicting that the Ford would be a #1 qualifier at Indy, and it was. It was so obvious that NHRA made a huge mistake that every racer knew of it. It has been 2 years since their debacle and finally it is being refactored. Lets face it, NHRA's factoring system is broken to begin with, let alone trying to correct it. You have cars running so far under in U/SA for years that if they ever fell into an "A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, or K, there would be a mutiny and an attempted overthrow of the governing body.

NHRA's BOGUS COMBOS;
The Caddy, the Regals, the farm truck, the Banana car, the Cimmaron, and lets not forget all the new cars, heck they even had to form their own class (FS) it was so bogus. We are talking about cars that run way more than 1.5 under at ridiculous slow MPH.

You can't blame the racer who takes advantage of the situation, only one is to blame, NHRA.

I've been around long enough, even worked tech for NHRA, the people are great, the organization is great, the HP Committee though is not to bright, sometimes wonder if there is any cash incentives going around to get some ratings.

It does not matter how many times I have written NHRA with graphs, comparisons, cold hard facts, it falls on deaf ears. I do not write anymore, gave up long ago, waste of time.

I even remember when The Captains car was a T/SA when MJ ran it. Then one year it became a U/SA car, I was not to happy about that. Nothing in comparison to what has happened since then.

But enough of this whining, I am just waiting to see the new U/SA combo that can go 2.0 under, coming to a race near you soon. NHRA is due for another one.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA and I thought nitrous was enough.

Re: HP on monday
 

And just to put an exclamation point on this whole 302 thing, a creative Stock racer would already be changing the head castings and intake (not really rare or hard to find pieces BTW) having a .020 thou thicker head gasket made and showing up at Indy calling it a 75 and losing 14 HP. And for you "upper classmen" that might not understand, in U/SA, that's 280 pounds! That's the same amount of weight that I can remove from my old 6 cyl. Nova to move from V to U and it's worth a half of a second in my car.

Re: HP on monday
 

Gee Billy - I've been called a lot of things but never "upper classmen" .......