Random thought about the *HRA
 

On another thread about Orlando going IHRA, and reading some responses, I had a thought about the tracks in FL and south GA.. Let me explain this first.

NHRA has its own track in Gainesville. Home of the Gators and a Divisional. 1/4 mile.

IHRA has Palm Beach International Raceway 1/4 mile

NHRA has a deal with track owners at Reynolds 1/4 mile

IHRA has a deal with track owners at SGMP, Bradenton and Orlando. 1/4 mile

On the 1/8 mile tracks for IHRA, there is Immokalee. But Bradenton runs 1/8 mile now

A major complaint about IHRA is that they run mostly 1/8 mile, and we as drag racers like the 1/4 mile better.

If you compete in NHRA your going to be running 1/4 mile, if you run IHRA your going to run mostly 1/8 mile.

I know that money comes into play whether it be 1/4 or 1/8. Insurance for these two differ quite a bit, as does the overall operational expenses. This is important to the track owners.

If IHRA goes for a separate "Division" in FL and GA, would they run 1/4 or 1/8.

OK, now here is the random thought. What if they ran 1,000 feet. I know the pros do, for insurance purposes, what if that is next for the sportsman. Would it draw more cars as they both can cross over easily with the either increased or decreased distances. Would the insurance be less.

All right you all can cut loose on me, it was just a random thought that exited my head and I thought that I would share it with logical people.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA thinking is not dangerous

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

IHRA runs 1/4 at Nitro Jam , 1/8 at Pro Am

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

Probably one thing the +HRAs like is having "their own thing" In a way keeping cross over low for their racers. Fear of liking the other organization.
1000 ft racing would sure make it less and less racing time. Might be answer for limited space new track but doubt the idea would be favored by the "logical people" here.
Change or logical thinking isn't always accepted if it means changing anyones chance of taking advantage of the rules.

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

IHRA does not run quarter mile for sportsman at all Nitro Jam Events.

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

D4 is all 1/4 mile.

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

If you run 1/4 mile you've already run an 1/8th mile, the only difference I can see is you get to shut down early...

JimR

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

If you run 1/8 mile you've only ran half a race.....

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

If you were looking for logical people why would you ask a bunch drag racers?

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

But how many races would we have to go to if the tracks that don't have the property or budget for 1/4 mile insurance stopped having any?

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

No doubt Myron, didn't say I don't race the 1/8 just prefer the full 1320. All the tracks around me were all built years ago before the cars got so fast. I just couldn't never understand going somewhere like Rockingham and having to run it 1/8 mile.

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

Got your point. Guess it's an insurance thing.

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

I basically grew up at the Orlando dragstrip, and like going there for races because it's easy to get to & it's fast, but I'm surprised that they are putting on a Nitro Jam event at Orlando, AND running the full 1/4 mile.

One of the reasons NHRA went to the "Regional" format with the TAF & TAFC guys is that they hated running at tracks like Orlando that have short shut-off areas, citing safety concerns.

A lot of Sportsman guys have ended up in the woods at the end of the track, not to mention guys going 250mph+, an insurance company underwriting an event would definitely take that into consideration.

Did OSW acquire some adjacent property and extend the shut-off area?

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

This is kind of what I was talking about. Some tracks run 1/8 and some 1/4. Some tracks are 1/4 mile but run 1/8 instead. Like Bradenton.

Insurance is a key factor, that is why I was wondering why don't they run 1,000 ft. Would insurance be less? It would accommodate cars that run either 1/8 or 1/4.

I definitely prefer 1/4, but my car parts like 1/8.

novassdude, I asked drag racers because most of them are nuts for even being in this sport, but they all believe that they are logical.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA logical, Ha Ha Ha

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

I understand some are not capable of running 1/4 for safety reasons, like most in my area. I would think if they are capable, they would be money ahead to get the insurance and run it 1/4. Could be wrong on this but I would think the extra cars you would draw would offset the insurance. I could be way off, Michael Beard would probably have more input on numbers like that.

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

IHRA has run 1/4 mile at Bradenton in the past at pro am events. There were about the same number of cars no matter what the length track we were running on. I don't understand why some don't want to run 1/8th mile. Personally I like it. its easier on your equipment and it actually will make you better at driving the stripe because you have to make your decisions much faster as to lift of leg it out the back door. We all have 1/8 mile numbers for data.
It will be interesting to see if Bradenton goes NHRA and if they give them a points race. it is a nice facility but short on pit space for a big points race turn out.

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

I personally won't go to an 1/8th mile race. I don't see the "makes you a better driver" part. Easier to "drive the stripe" at 105 than 135. I find it boring. Bad enough we are bracket racing now anyway.

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

The stripe comes up much faster time wise in the 1/8 you only have about 5 1/2 seconds to make your decision. It has certainly helped me judge the stripe better. we race quite a bit of 1/8 mile with IHRA and the SSSSA here in Fla. I just like to race so I go to both. The IHRA races that I go to are all regular NHRA guys too so its pretty much the same group. We have about an equal amount of IHRA and NHRA races here in FL. Its not better or worse just fun to get out and race. Its been a tough year for me engine wise. 3 major engine failures in the past year so I will be happy to be able to get back out to the track at the beginning of the year.

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

That is the very reason I do not go to IHRA events. I quit bracket racing for the very same reason. I used to support the southeast Super Gas Association, but quit going to those races as well when it became all 1/8th mile. The Super Gas Association thought that they would increase their car counts by going to 1/8th mile 6.40 index. They thought it would bring in the IHRA cars that weren't licensed for NHRA. In reality they went from 35-40 cars an event to barely getting 16 because the 1/4 mile guys quit coming. They also had to go to buy backs ( which is something I don't like to see in Super class racing ) just to be able to pay the purse. Yet they still fail to see the light and go back to what made the association in the first place.
Chuck

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

Gee I wonder where the "1/4 mile" guys go or do they just not race? Seems to me if you like to race you race 1/5 mi 1/8 mile 1/4 mile whatever mile.

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

Incorrect. At higher speeds, cars cover more distance per time. The faster you go, the easier it is. Junior Dragsters driving the stripe to .00x are VERY impressive.

I've raced 1/8th, 1000', and 1/4. It's all good. 1000' is my favorite... best of both worlds, closer handicaps than 1/4, more speed than 1/8th. Seriously, cars are just riding after 1000'. It's not a big deal. They'd have to come up with all new indexes to implement S/SS on 1000', however, so it's unlikely. Race distance is typically predicated on whatever the fastest class on the property is.

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

EXACTLY DEAD ON Tim !!!

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

I also agree here...I prefer 1000' too, a little longer on the chase and less wear and tear than the 1/4!

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

I know you consider yourself an expert here, but I disagree with you about this one. I find driving the stripe much easier 1/8th mile. Just don't think it is as much fun. I find it boring. Just will no longer do it. Tried it, don't like it. Your first sentance contradicts your statement.

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

What Beard is saying is that it's easier to take 5 thousandths stripe on someone at 135 than at 105 (Taking someone through the traps by a tire at 135 will be a tighter MOV than doing the same at 105). Not to mention many guys are staring at the tack for a good part of an 1/8 mile run with less time to size up their opponent. There is an argument that 1/8 mile top end driving is easier because there is less of a variance in E.T.'s between two competing cars, as opposed to if they were racing 1/4.

Fun stuff.

I prefer 1/8th but love it all.

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

1/8 mile or 1/4 mile !

If I am Drag Racing it is a good day..!

Dan

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

QUOTEhttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items...rrow-10x10.png=Dan Fahey;485692]1/8 mile or 1/4 mile !

If I am Drag Racing it is a good day..!

Dan[ QUOTEhttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items...rrow-10x10.png]


Amen!

JimR

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

Sir, it is not a matter of expertise. It's math.

If you are running 100 mph you cover 17.6" in .010 seconds. If you are running 135 mph, you cover 23.7" in that same amount of time. So, if you take 12 inches of stripe, is the MOV closer at 100 mph, or at 135 mph?

Try some light reading from an expert over on Bogacki's website. Bud McNasby's Guest Tutorial on the subject is here: http://www.thisisbracketracing.com/g...s=5F5409020E06

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

Beard is right!
,

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

Your talking about time. I'm talking about it being easier to put foot on somebody at 100.
Easier for me to control that 12" at 100 MPH. Maybe not for you?
Still don't care to do it. IHRA can have it.

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

Of course we're talking about time. That is the metric used by our sport, and what determines a win or loss. If you take a foot at 100 mph, you're looking at just under .007. At 135 mph, that same MOV is over 16 inches, i.e. you don't HAVE to cut it as close to achieve the same result.

In terms of judging physical distance, the difficulty level is a factor of the speed differential between you and your opponent. It is easier to judge a 1/4-mile matchup of 135 mph vs 130 mph than it is an 1/8th mile matchup of 100 mph vs 115 mph. Perhaps the argument you are actually trying to make is that statistically, the speed differentials are more likely to be smaller on the 1/8th mile.

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

So what about you D1, D2, D3, D4, D5, D6 and D7 drivers think about this. Do you think that your surrounding racetracks would go to 1,000 ft for "operational purposes".

Ron Ortiz
U/SA just trying to help our sport

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

Interesting math discussions. Interesting thoughts on track length. *HRA s might discuss this one as it saves time, space, etc. Runs sportsman class cars through faster to shorten the event time they require. Kind of like fewer lights on the tree.

A shame there are no logical people to discuss "Class racing" as apposed to the Dial in component. That might help the fan interest too but little interest to *HRA.

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

Many people refuse to run 1/8th mile. Look at the IHRA 1/8th mile car counts.

Many of us liked running off records as well. Mattered if you were fast. We lost most of the slow guys to bracket racing when that crap came along. Same thing would happen if your idea was used.

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

Gees Ed why all the doom & gloom. It is not up to us racers to change the distance, it is track operators who will make the change for operational purposes.I'm just looking at all the cars that run 1/4 and the other cars that run the 1/8. Just a way to cross them over to preserve car counts. IHRA car counts are low, yes, but so is some NHRA races down also. Not counting NHRA limiting car count fields.

Here is another question for you Ed, why are tracks converting over to IHRA, what happens when your home track goes to a different distance, will you abandon them and park your car due to your stubbornness.

Running off records was done in the past. But what if the record holder in your class was like a Bob Shaw and his Caddy. Think you can go 2.25 under your index. That will put a stop to your racing.

Here in FL we now have 4 IHRA tracks and 1 NHRA track, where it used to be 4 NHRA and 1 IHRA. I did not have any control over this situation.

Regardless of sanction, we as races better be prepared for what might be coming and voice our opinions, remedies, and concerns to the proper people.

Just a random thought.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA I want to race.

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

Ed...you got to stop taking your cranky PILLS :o

D

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

Maybe you weren't racing then? More often than not, I was running off my own record.
We were allowed to run one tenth under, I always could. Somebody over two seconds under? Just leave on time and
push them out. Maybe a little more serious racers back then, and two rounds worth of points for an et record, guys were much more likely to set records then. A two second under guy was no more dangerous than a one tenth under guy, unless it was a heads up. I would not be in a class that low anyway. Would not be a problem for me.

As for IHRA car counts, been to several with 8 to 12 SS cars. Never at an NHRA race.
I don't know how they keep going. This Tulsa track didn't stay with them very long, due to extremely low car & spectator counts. Back to NHRA now.

And, yes, I would park mine rather than run 1/8th mile. Racers have a little say when they stop showing up for 1/8th mile races. I know many that feel the same way.

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

I started racing in 1968, so I've seen a lot of changes, right up to where we are now. It was the heads up runs I was referring to with 2 second under cars, not the handicapping.

I've seen low car counts at a lot of places, including NHRA events.

I know you won't run the 1/8 mile races, but what about 1,000 ft, you know, the crossover I'm talking about. Understand that I too really like the 1/4, but with insurance and the likes, and with 1/4 mile tracks running the 1/8 instead, it just made me think of an alternative, that's all.

You can park your car or you can run it, it is your car.

And BTW, who came up with 1/4 to begin with.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA trying to judge distance

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

Origin of quarter mile drag drag racing:

We've even read interviews with CJ Hart, in which he acknowledges the influence of quarter-horse racing. But Leslie Long's recollections from Santa Ana suggest a more random reason. "When they finally started to have standing starts at Santa Ana, the cars had to move away from the fence (where they had previously lined up for rolling starts). The distance that was left was a quarter mile. So it was really an accident there-it just happened to be the length of the runway."

Leslie's version is backed up by an interview with Wally Parks from Westways magazine, published by the Southern California Auto Club (which also sponsors the Wally Parks NHRA Motorsports Museum). In that interview, Parks said specifically that the quarter mile was not from horse racing, but from test runs and races at airport runways. That distance allowed room for the cars to accelerate and decelerate without running out of pavement. Publicity in Hot Rod (edited by Parks) and other magazines helped establish the quarter mile as the standard for drag racing.

Full article:

http://www.hotrod.com/features/histo...acing-origins/

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

I suppose, if the NFL shuts down, I'll watch Arena Football. Then again, maybe not...
Even the Nitro Cars should be running a quartermile.

Re: Random thought about the *HRA
 

my sponsor's like 1/4 mile records helps sell products to the public and
thats what matters to them
3x record holder