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-   -   Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=60334)

nhramnl 11-24-2015 03:51 PM

Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
Has anyone converted their carbureted combination to a bypass system? I'm talking about a system that uses small lines from the pressure regulator that go into a y-block and then back to the fuel cell. If so, it would be great to know what your results were (steadier pressure, additional MPH, ET improvement, or annoying side effects). Thanks.

buzzinhalfdozen 11-24-2015 04:35 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
My car is set up that way, mainly so I can go from EFI to carb. Would think best to confirm with your pump manufacturer to make sure it's up to the task. Can't imagine a down side....except of course the gentleman that had the "breaks up at 4500rpm" issue which was solved. BTW there is only 1 return line on my setup (Aeromotive) no Y blocks involved.

Jeff Stout 11-24-2015 05:01 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
I have the Magna Fuel system on a super stock car. It is a jetted return from reg back to tank. I think a .035 jet into a -4 line to tank. What I noticed with my fuel pressure gauge is that the pressure stayed the same throughout the run with less needle bounce also. Cant say any ET gain.

Alan Nyhus 11-26-2015 12:05 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
When I put the bypass on, the fuel pressure was a bit more stable. Didn't see any performance improvement but the pump is noticeably cooler. Make sure to extend the bypass line in the tank so it's covered by fuel and isn't aerating the fuel in the tank when it dumps back in.

1320racer 11-27-2015 09:27 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nhramnl (Post 488681)
Has anyone converted their carbureted combination to a bypass system? I'm talking about a system that uses small lines from the pressure regulator that go into a y-block and then back to the fuel cell. If so, it would be great to know what your results were (steadier pressure, additional MPH, ET improvement, or annoying side effects). Thanks.

Absolutely no change, no improvement whatsoever.

JHeath 11-27-2015 09:35 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
Mike, call John Rademacher @ Product Engineering, he can explain it better than me.

1320racer 11-27-2015 09:51 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
My fuel system is all John's aka Product Engineering. Again absolutely NO change, no improvement, no difference. Save your $.

http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps2rnxpcdl.jpg

nhramnl 11-27-2015 11:45 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
Thanks to everyone for their responses. Based on 1320racer's comments and photograph, I have to ask if you had a fuel pressure-based problem when you decided to put the bypass kit on? It looks from the picture that you're using -8 line into the regulator and either -6 or -8 out. Does the car use a QuadraJet, or a 4GC? I guess the key question is, were you hoping to cure a problem and the bypass didn't help (i.e. you still have the problem), were OK but put the bypass system on to guarantee you wouldn't ever have a problem, or put the bypass system on because you were assured that it would pick the car up? Thanks in advance for your answer.

JHeath 11-27-2015 11:56 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
1320 racer is an expert, even though he doesn't race a super stock car.

1320racer 11-28-2015 12:01 AM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
Actually I do.:p

My car is a former super stocker built by the best, MPR, that now has a 900+HP BBC bracket engine under the hood that accelerates it well into the 8's and it's a safe bet I've made more passes down a 1/4 mile than most class racers over the past 25 years.

Back to the OP's question... -8 in and -8 out feeding a Holley 850. Just had the bypass kit laying around for years so I finally decided to put it on.

JHeath 11-28-2015 01:06 AM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
Key word is..."former super stocker" ,but you are not a class racer, as usual, your opinion is irrelevent.

1320racer 11-28-2015 08:36 AM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
says the guy who barely runs in the 10s :rolleyes:

Ed Wright 11-28-2015 12:07 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
1320 is correct. Won't hurt, but won't run any faster unless it had fuel supply issues before changing to the bypass set up. Adequate fuel in the bowls is all the carb cares about.

Sean Marconette 11-28-2015 12:36 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
The advantage of a bypass regulator it does not dead head the pump, like a non-bypass. Fuel is moving thru the pump at a constant volume with a bypass. This allows fuel to cool the pump. Dead heading is a low flow/no flow condition.

If you have a low pressure/volume pump like a Holley blue pump, a bypass would not be a benefit to pump life. If you have a high pressure/volume pump that is capable of being used on a FI system, a bypass will extend the life of the pump, and not dead head it. Most of the time a race car is idling around the pits, a very short amount of time is the engine at WOT. The needle and seat are the governing factor in fluid volume and how much cooling effect on the pump in a carb application.

1320racer 11-28-2015 12:40 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
the PE 4450 fuel pump/filter combo in my car has been there since it was built in 2004. It has always been dead headed until earlier this year without one issue.

http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/o...pse585f267.jpg

Further, I sent it to John earlier this year for inspection, feeling guilty after running it for 12 seasons and he said there was nothing wrong with it. Again, the bypass won't do anything for the OP except lighter his wallet by ~ $200 but if it makes him feel better, get it.

nhramnl 11-28-2015 12:45 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
Again, thanks to all. I'm running a Q-jet combination and spoke with John Rademacher about the bypass setup when I sent the car's Product Engineering pump back for a rebuild. John's contention is that because of the Q-jet's very small fuel bowl, the bypass system is critical, since it assures a consistent supply of fuel. I don't believe I had a problem before, so I'm not really expecting a major gain, but I was curious if any of you guys that installed the kit (even with a good performing existing system) saw anything.

1320racer 11-28-2015 12:53 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
FYI, I ran a Q-Jet for many years atop my 600+HP at the time, 468 BBC, running as quick as high 10's with it in my 3900 lb. Chevelle. No PE pump, regulator or bypass. Ran a Malllory Comp 140 pump, filter and dead headed regulator and no issues what so ever.

junior barns 11-28-2015 01:15 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
What if there is a by-pass at the pump? Is it still needed at the regulator?

1320racer 11-28-2015 01:35 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
one has nothing to do with the other and neither are required. Ran Mallory pumps for years without a bypass and as part of a dead headed system.

Sean Marconette 11-28-2015 08:34 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
I guess the fuel pump companies that make a bypass for a carb setup are just plain stupid then? The pumps that the motors are in fluid will last longer with a bypass regulator.

1320racer 11-28-2015 09:01 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
or maybe they just want the naive and ill informed to part with their $.

nhramnl 11-29-2015 11:49 AM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
Before you criticize the intelligence and level of awareness of other racers, remember that you have the kit on your own car. Racing is about innovation, and innovation is about trying things that don't always work. Every car is different and each responds (or doesn't respond) to attempts to make it quicker. Where you car didn't see anything, mine may pick-up or slow down as a result of installing the kit. If you're like most drag racers, you have lots of "silver bullet" parts hanging on a nail on the shop wall. If the kit does nothing, I'll be naïve and ill-informed; if the car picks up a tenth, I'll be a genius.

1320racer 11-29-2015 11:50 AM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
Mike, it's apparent you didn't want advice, all you wanted is confirmation of what you already decided to do.

Oh and FYI, I didn't pay for the bypass, John gave it to me years ago.

You'll gain nothing but a lighter wallet!

nhramnl 11-29-2015 12:11 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
You may be entirely correct, but there's only one way to find out. I will be man enough to post here again if the kit does nothing for the performance of the car. I genuinely appreciate the advice, based on your own experience, but I have received a couple of PMs that say the kit did make a difference.

1320racer 11-29-2015 12:41 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
Mike, think about it, how much additional HP would be required for your car to run just a tenth quicker? I'll tell you with my Super Stock car, that has all the stock/super stock "tricks" for less rolling resistance, it's close to 30HP and my engine makes over 900HP.

Now do you really think that just plumbing a bypass into your regulator is going to magically have your engine making this additional horsepower? Where is this HP going to come from, theorectically more stable fuel pressure? Even though, the volume remains the same? Your engine can only use X amount of fuel as it is without wholesale changes to the combination and the fuel is still being regulated by the same needle and seat based on the demand/need for fuel at RPM.

SSGT Mustang 11-29-2015 01:15 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
Well, Ed, I see that you are busy making new friends once again.....

How about this. I'm bored, so I'll write a response that you could have written all by yourself.

"Mike, I have that system in my car. When I installed it I didn't see any difference in either ET or consistency. It may not be a bad thing to add, but you may see more benefit from spending your money on a camshaft program. I have changed cams and picked up a lot. I've also changed cams that didn't pick up the car at all. Some have even hurt performance.

"It's kind of like the lightweight axles, spool and wheels craze. They are good in some cases and you may see some benefit, but most of the time you don't see any real gains from making the changes. It can't hurt to have stronger axles and truer wheels, but for the price you may want to spend your money on the engine or a converter/gear program that will bring you something better in the end.

"Good luck,

"Ed"

See, Ed, that wasn't so bad, and you wouldn't have insulted anyone.......

Adger Smith 11-29-2015 01:29 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
Fuel systems are basic and simple Fluid Dynamics.
Irregardless of WHAT or WHO'S system is used to get fuel from the tank to the carb the goal is to use or put together a system that: Gets the fuel there,
1. at the correct pressure
2. at an adequate volume (different power levels require different Volume's)
3. without air bubbles/aeration (Carbs need a solid slug of fuel)
4 Without raising the temperature of the fuel
5 That is not effected by G Forces of acceleration
If you have a system that does all of the above you may not see a gain by making changes.
If you have a system that is 2 out of 5 chances are you might see some change
Bolting on parts without a basic understanding of the Fluid Dynamics and what the carb/engine combination needs is just a cut and try method and usually just confuses things.
It helps to know what HP & the BSFC of your engine combination and calculate how much fuel system you need. Most N/A engine BSFC's run between .40 to .55 depending on the "State of Tune". Fuel delivery is extremely critical in selecting injector sizes. Blown engines operate at different BSFC than N/A engines. There are several on line calculators you can use to size you fuel requirements. This Tech page is just one and it touches on a few basics. http://www.sdsefi.com/techform.htm
nhramnl Do a little research and figure out what you need then get it on your car or work with someone that understands the in's and outs of fuel supply.

1320racer 11-29-2015 01:37 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
Steve, I reply to threads that I have first hand experience that may help the OP. I don't reply with the hope to make a new friend by being politically correct. I like my replies better than yours and my previous comments stand.

SSGT Mustang 11-29-2015 01:54 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
Ed, I think most recognize that you have a great deal of experience in drag racing, and that that experience can be very helpful to others who don't have it and are trying to learn.

I'm nobody's idea of the PC type, and I do appreciate frankness. But, from what I can tell, oftentimes your experience gets overlooked by the messaging, which is a shame.

By the way: How much does that weight box weigh? Nice piece. Mike does build very nice cars.

nhramnl 11-29-2015 02:52 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
This is why I seldom post anything on boards. The original question was simple; "Has anyone converted to a bypass system and did it produce any gains?". The initial responders simply answer the question, but soon after, the "experts" show up, to criticize and belittle the questioner. I should be working on finding the right camshaft? Gulius picked the cam when he built the engine. I should understand what a fuel system really needs to work properly. I do. I've been racing for 35 years, and this whole thing started when I noticed the pump was delivering "beer foam" to the carburetor. Believe it or not, there was no perceivable performance deficiency. Investigated, learned that the pump had never been rebuilt and called John to discuss having it inspected and re-sealed. John asked if I had ever considered a bypass system (because the car uses a Q-jet), and went on to tell me how it had helped people like my friend Jason Line, with his Buick stocker. So, one more time; the question was "Has anyone converted to a bypass system and did it produce any gains?" Don't help; just answer the question.

1320racer 11-29-2015 02:58 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
Mike...NO and if you go back to
My first reply I answered your question. It wasn't until another poster attacked my reply that my follow up responses got lengthy. I did not critics or belittle you until you attacked me/ my replies. If you only want opinion and reply from those that agree with what you have already decided to do, I suggest you don't ask for opinion on Internet forums.

Steve, it's not my concern who like or dislikes my replies. What's important to me is I offer honest advice based on my many years and passes without a hidden agenda. Unlike many that post here and elsewhere, I'm not here trying to sell parts and services.

Don't know how much the weight box weighs, never had it out of the car but I'd guess at least 25 lbs.

nhramnl 11-29-2015 03:03 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
Your advice is both appreciated and considered. I know what I'm doing, but want to see if John's argument that the bypass system helps Q-jet cars with the fuel supply issue (due to the small fuel bowl) is proven in practice. Everything works in theory.

nhramnl 11-29-2015 03:08 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
Ed - Yes, you did answer the question.

1320racer 11-29-2015 03:16 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
Mike, while I believe John builds the best fuel
Pumps available, it's No secret he's a bit of a nut and the reason his latest venture PE Fuel Pumps are not flying off the shelfs like his former company Magnaflow now Magnafuel.

John and I went a few rounds years ago with some of his claims and statements and John would have you put one of his 500GPH fuel pumps and a -10 line feeding it on a 300HP engine if you let hm with a bypass kit too. ;)

Todd Geisler 11-30-2015 12:06 AM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
My current carb is from Bob Book. He is quite picky about carb and fuel system setup.

When I ordered the carb I asked about the regulator bypass setup. He said if you data log fuel pressure you would certainly see an improved fuel pressure reading. He also stated that on track they never saw any positive gains from the bleed system.

His opinion is if you already have it, use it. Otherwise it's not worth the time/money to purchase and install.

nhramnl 11-30-2015 09:46 AM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
Thanks everybody, for taking the time to detail your experiences. I bought a bypass regulator a couple of weeks ago, but as some of you can probably guess, have been doubtful about what it will actually do for me. As a result, I haven't installed it yet (and may not). Thanks again to all.

buzzinhalfdozen 11-30-2015 10:02 AM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 488864)
1320 is correct. Won't hurt, but won't run any faster unless it had fuel supply issues before changing to the bypass set up. Adequate fuel in the bowls is all the carb cares about.

This covers it, "unless it had a fuel supply issue".In a later post the OP stated he had "beer foam" at the carb, seems that would indicate a problem. Seeing as you already purchased the regulator why not just install it and see if it clears up your issue? As you stated not every car is the same, nor does every car respond the same to changes. Good luck on what ever you decide and please let us know what you find out. Joe

nhramnl 11-30-2015 10:44 AM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
I tend to agree with Joe's post. I will probably install the kit and will definitely post the results (positive, neutral or negative). Just as it can be installed, it can also be removed if it does nothing, or hurts the car. There are people (some of them very recognized in the sportsman ranks) who say the kit does help in many (but not all) cases, so I'll look at it as an experiment.

1320racer 11-30-2015 12:44 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
Well Mike, I for one would like to hear from these "very recognized people in the sportsman ranks", what their definition of "help" is and IF by help they mean their car/your car has/will run quicker/faster, then I would like them to explain how by the addition of just a regulator bypass, your engine/ their engine magically made or will make 20-30 or more additional HP, which is what's required with the cars/engines discussed here to show an improvement of a tenth and 1MPH on the time slip.

nhramnl 11-30-2015 01:22 PM

Re: Bypass fuel pressure regulator systems
 
Man, you are a feisty one, aren't you? OK, first, it is not my place to name names, unless the people in question specifically give me their OK to do so. Second, you would recognize every single one of them, by name, as an established performer in sportsman drag racing. Third, nobody has ever said anything about a tenth and/or 1 MPH. As I'm sure you know, the gains of a tenth and a mile-per-hour stop coming WAAAAAY before a serious class racer quits spending money. As a matter of fact, the most expensive gains of all are near the "end" of the sorting-out process (though there really is no end to it). Racers will spend thousands of dollars, in hopes of picking up a few hundredths. Think Honda rod journals, and then talk to a really experienced engine builder about how much gain you actually get for the crazy expensive outlay..


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