Pontiacs
 

http://s12.postimg.org/xwf3xwer1/knafel_pontiac.jpg

http://s21.postimg.org/iu0zulefr/img061.jpg

http://s1.postimg.org/qlxk1vxmn/LV7.jpg

http://s1.postimg.org/wqk0i3jen/img027.jpg

Re: Pontiacs
 

http://s28.postimg.org/60bv6wt3h/mimi_gto.jpg

http://s18.postimg.org/xwwdrzbwp/dibiase_service.jpg

http://s11.postimg.org/9ngl4li4j/sunday_s_love.jpg

http://s28.postimg.org/u5i3540nh/go_get_er_tiger.jpg

Re: Pontiacs
 

http://s28.postimg.org/wcmbt15xp/steve_waleski.jpg

http://s28.postimg.org/ud5q1mbm5/win_gurney_pontiac.jpg

http://s17.postimg.org/ui382cl0v/bos...aylettered.jpg

http://s30.postimg.org/khvs4xloh/swingin_time.jpg

Re: Pontiacs
 

http://s2.postimg.org/6se5sbqnt/Knaf...y_Todd_Win.jpg

http://s2.postimg.org/6w3duu6rd/Knaf...ingerter_b.jpg

http://s2.postimg.org/sjsc5a75l/Knaf...dd_Wingert.jpg

http://s2.postimg.org/45u1xna2h/Knaf...ingerter_b.jpg

Re: Pontiacs
 

http://s2.postimg.org/49sgrn4xl/Knaf...ingerter_b.jpg

http://s2.postimg.org/ksbm6q309/Knaf...ingerter_b.jpg

http://s2.postimg.org/yptsc112x/Knaf...terphoto_b.jpg

http://s2.postimg.org/q6aee9sqh/Knaf...ingerter_b.jpg

Re: Pontiacs
 

[quote=mopar68;492598]http://s2.postimg.org/6se5sbqnt/Knaf...y_Todd_Win.jpg

http://s2.postimg.org/6w3duu6rd/Knaf...ingerter_b.jpg


I know this is an old thread - just wondering what class these two Chiefs would have been running in? Top one looks like AWB?

Re: Pontiacs
 

I started this group a few years ago, currently have around 7,000 Vintage poncho pics. Enjoy!

Vintage Pontiac Drag Photos
https://www.facebook.com/groups/vintagepontiacdrag

Re: Pontiacs
 

I enjoyed seeing my old 73 Super Duty on your site. If you like, I could send you an interesting sequence of finish line pics at the 77 Winternationals. I also have pics of my 74 Super Duty that JB Clegg now campaigns (my last car before the Ford Bud Super Team stint).
Glen Tinsley

Re: Pontiacs
 

Re: Pontiacs
 

Well, most of the pics are gone from this thread. It'll take quite a while. But I'll take a stab at posting some Pontiac pics of a wide variety of Pontiacs that ran in the 20th century.

Since the SD455 engine was mentioned, that's where I'll start. I'm sure there were probably several SD455 cars that began racing while still new.

The 1st one that comes to mind is the '73 stick Bird that John Clegg bought new & won class at Indy with it. He later switched it over to SS. They recently updated it & it now runs mid 9's.

Another new & famous SD455 Stocker was the Herslow & Morlock T/A. They also later switched it over to SS. Phil Szupka later raced it.

I'm guessing that most SD455 class cars did not come from the factory with an SD455 engine. One of these was built & raced by Bob Michael. It was then raced by Don Kennedy.

Jack Mullins built one out of junkyard parts. We saw it at the '78 Cajun Nats, with a For Sale sign on it. Glen Tinsley bought & raced it.

IIRC, Russ Abrams MAY have bought a '73 new, or almost new. Hey, I could be wrong on some of this info. Can't remember every detail of all the Pontiac class cars. If I get something wrong, maybe somebody will correct it.

Well, that'll take all 9 pic slots for this post.

Re: Pontiacs
 

Well, some of the oldest Pontiac class cars I've seen are '56 models. So, I'll show '56 thru '64 models on this post.

The '56 thru '63 models are full size Pontiacs. The '64 is obviously a GTO.

Re: Pontiacs
 

The A/FX Pontiacs were quite unique. They were '62 & '63 model Tempest bodies, with the 421SD engine.

In '62, a Mickey Thompson A/FX Tempest won the class at the Winter Nats & at Indy.

A '63 M/T Tempest won the class again, at the '63 Winter Nats.

But M/T was not the only 421SD Tempest owner. And, there were a couple of wagon bodies used.

The FX classes didn't last long. So, some of these 421SD Tempests were then used to run in other classes. A/MP was one of those classes.

Re: Pontiacs
 

I've posted lots of pics of Pontiac A-bodies & Birds, on this site.

But there have also been quite a few Pontiac Stock & SS wagons. Many have been big race winners & record holders.

Here are just a few of 'em.

Re: Pontiacs
 

Most guys know about the common Pontiac Stock/SS combos. In this post, I'll mention some combos I've run across that are not real common.

The 1st one I'll mention is the '66 Tempest, powered by the Pontiac OHC Six engine. Knafel Pontiac fielded 2, a hardtop & a ragtop. I actually knew a guy who had a ragtop 4-speed street Tempest. Went for a ride in it once. It was pretty spunky.

This engine was also available in 1st gen Birds. I still have the body of a '69, which came with that engine.

But, other than those engines, I'll stick with Pontiac V8 powered models. Other than wagons, most Pontiac Stock/SS cars were 2-door models. After '63, there were not a lot of Pontiac "big car" bodies used for class racing. So, when I run across a '64-up big car, other than a Grand Prix, running Stock or SS, it seems kind of rare to me.

Right now, I can only think of one '64-up 4-door Pontiac big car Stocker. I think it may be a '73. It's big & ugly & named "Tijuana Taxi'. Have already posted enuff pics of it on this site.

Re: Pontiacs
 

For the most part, the quickest Pontiacs from around 1959, thru '66, have had more than one carb. The 421SD engines had 2 AFB's. Quite a few cars came with three 2-barrels, which Pontiac called Tri-power. I think Tri-power came in 370, 389, & 421 versions. Not sure about any others. I'm not a Tri-power expert, by any means. I'm a Q-jet guy.

In '66, the GTO could come with a 389 Tri-power. I suppose the most famous was the Knafel Pontiac car, I call the "Trophy Car". Knafel actually had at least 2 of these cars. Below are pics of their 2-car rig, with both cars aboard.

Royal Pontiac also raced this model. And I'm sure there were probably quite a few other Pontiac dealers that sponsored 1. No telling how many '64-'66 Tri-Power GTO's were raced, all over the country. From what I can find, it looks like most of 'em ran either B/S or C/S.

Currently, I only know of 2 Stockers that still run Tri-power. Bob Michael has a '62 389 GP. And Norman Warling has a '62 Catalina, with that same engine. Norman actually tried a 421SD in his car for a race or 2. This past weekend, with the Tri-power 389 engine, he was #1 qualifier at the 1st race & #2 qualifier at the 2nd race of the div 6 doubleheader.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2021#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2021#indextop

Re: Pontiacs
 

When lookin back at the race results from the '60's, it's obvious that one of the most competitive Stock Pontiacs was the '58 model.

These cars ran a 370 cube engine. Tri-Power was an option. F.I. was also available on some models, in '57 & '58. I assume that most of the higher classed '58's ran the Tri-Power, & lower classed cars ran a single carb. Not sure of that. Don't know if there were any who had good success with the F.I. system, for racing, or not. Some probably did.

The biggest name in '58 Pontiac racing was Ramon Lowe. He was involved with several cars, which won races, set records, & got class wins.

Another '58 racer was Gene Brown. Noticed "Lowe & Brown" on a '58 that Ramon drove. So, I assume that maybe those 2 guys shared info to help make both of their '58's quicker. But, I wasn't aware of either racer back in the day.

Another famous '58 was named "Tokyo Rose".

Another was driven by Lindy Lindholm. In recent times Lindy raced a '77 GP, then a pretty strong '74 Formula. A few years back, the '74 was stolen. So, Lindy moved to another brand.

The '58 that Mary Ann Foss drove was a class winner & record holder.

The last 2 pics are also of strong '58's. I think Jay Hamilton won the div 7 Stock points more than once.

Re: Pontiacs
 

Haven't found many pics of '57 & '59 Pontiac drag cars. So, I decided to put 'em all on this post.

The '57 engine was a 347. I think Tri-Power was available. F.I. was available in a Bonny ragtop only, if my info is correct.

But, some guys ran it in HT models. It was eventually banned in all models that couldn't be factory equipped with it.

The biggest name I've found, who raced a '57 was John Thropp.

'59 was the first year of the 389 engine. I only have pics of 3 '59's in my files.

Re: Pontiacs
 

Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac


http://www.classracer.com/classforum...ad.php?t=44070


Stan

Re: Pontiacs
 

Looking back at old nat records & class wins, it appears that the 1960 Pontiacs were very competitive.

The 1st one that comes to mind is the Royal Pontiac "Hot Chief #1", which Jim Wangers drove to victory at the '60 Nats.

One of my favorites was the black "Big Iron" car. It was a nat record holder, driven by Rod Kister.

Ronnie Broadhead was a class winner & div champ.

The Lowe & Beardsley car was a record holder, as was the Samuels car. I have pics of several other '60 Pontiacs. So, I'm guessing that there were LOTS of 'em, at tracks all over the country, back in the '60's.

Re: Pontiacs
 

There were LOTS of '61, '62, & '63 Big Pontiacs, running on tracks all over the country.

The 389SD & 421SD engines were VERY competitive. So, these cars got lots of class wins & set lots of nat records.

Then, after '63, there was very little factory help. So, MOST of the heavy hitters switched brands. Mopar went "whole hog" into drag racing, giving LOTS of factory support to lots of racers. That, along with the 426 Hemi engines, gave the factory Mopar cars a big advantage. A quick check of race results beginning in the mid '60's will show how dominant Mopar was.

Same thing happened in NASCAR. The dominant 389SD & 421SD Pontiacs gave way to the Hemi Mopars & 427 Fords.

But, in the early '60's, Pontiacs did a lot of winning, on drag & circle tracks. And I love to read about what many call Pontiac's "Glory Days". :)

There were some crazy classes in '61-'63. NHRA made classes for cars running some factory over-the-counter HP parts, & for very limited production models.

There were classes like S/S, S/SA, OS/S, SS/S, A/FX, B/FX, etc. For a time, those classes, plus A/S were called Top Stock, and classes below that were called Junior Stock.

One of my favorite '61 Pontiacs was raced by div 4 racers, the Moore family, with Gary Moore driving. He set a national record, won class at a nat event, & was div 4 champ, with a '61 Pontiac.

There were lots of dealer sponsored '61's. Another of my favorite '61's was driven by Carol Cox. She won the S/SA class at Pomona & Indy with it. The hottest '61's ran one of the SD engines.

Re: Pontiacs
 

There was no shortage of '62's. They ran lots of different classes.

One of my favorites is the A/S 421SD car that Don Gay drove.

But there were lots of '62 record holders & class winners.

You'll notice that some of these pics are of Grand Prix models. The '62 GP nose/grill gives it a different look than the other '62 Big Pontiacs.

Re: Pontiacs
 

Also plenty of '63's on the track, back in the '60's. Most ran one of the S/S or FX classes. But I did find a pic of an E/SA car. I assume it was 389 powered. But I think a non-SD 421 was also available.

I even found a couple of pics of '64 models. A 421 was still available. It just wasn't a 421SD.

Re: Pontiacs
 

I've already mentioned that after the GTO's came out, there were very few big Pontiacs used for class racing.

I posted pics of several late '60's big cars. I forgot to post one that was raced by Jack Matyas. I think it was a '65 model. It ran G/SA. So, as heavy as it was, I'm assuming it had the Tri-Power 421 engine.

Next, I'll take a closer look at the big 4-door Pontiac, known as the "Tijuana Taxi". The best ID I can come up with for it is a '73 Catalina 4-door Sedan. In one pic it was running V/SA. From the Class Racer Info site, it appears as tho it would have had to be running a 2-barrel engine, probably a 350. Not sure of that, at all. Ratings change. So, it may have been a 400 cube Pontiac engine, with a 2-barrel carb.

In another pic, it was running T/SA. So, I assume that either it was running a different engine combo, OR, NHRA gave the engine it was running a big hp hit, after it set a new nat record. Can't say for sure what engine it was running, for either class. Anybody know ?

Pretty sure it was a record holder. Haven't located any exact record numbers. If anybody has 'em, please post.

Re: Pontiacs
 

The 62's ,with all that good Pontiac torque, were players when new..Not so today. The heads won't flow enough air ,by today's standards...Not a player anymore, even after defactoring.

Re: Pontiacs
 

Jack's 'vert was a 389 /338, I believe.

After a certain period in the 70's ,NHRA took the V8's out of V, W...Notice the For Sale sign ,when running T...Again, the Pontiac torque worked well in the "pure stock" Stock early 70's... Carb's too small on the 350s to be a player, with all the phony crap allowed today.

Re: Pontiacs
 

The Alaskan is a 389 tri-power...not a 421.in J/Stock ..More web dis-info.

Re: Pontiacs
 

Another Pontiac body style that hasn't been used much for class racing is the '69-'77 Grand Prix.

I've only run across a pic of one '69 GP. It's not good enuff quality to post.

Although most say the SD455 engine was not available in anything but Firebirds, NHRA allows the '73 SD455 to be run in some '73 Lemans, GTO, Grand Am, & Grand Prix models. Pic #4 below shows the mag cover back when the '73 SD455 GTO was named "Car of the Year". But, they jumped the gun(tripped the red light). Pontiac decided to NOT offer the SD455 in the GTO. Therefore, that mag cover is famous, especially in Pontiac circles.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2080

I'll post a pic of a GP that was featured in the H-O Racing Specialties monthly publication "The High Output". It belonged to long time Pontiac racer John Clegg. They ran it with the SD455, at least one race.

There have been some '77 GP's raced. One that has been racing for a long time is still being raced in div 1, by Lauren Kanuik. It still runs safely under it's index. IIRC, it's the same car that was raced by Lindy Lindholm & Don Himes.

The '73-'77 A-bodies are also models that have not been raced a whole lot. But, several of these have done really well. Don Elgin is still racing his, out in the Northwest. Don Turk sold his a couple of years back. But it's still active & the new owner has won races with it. Tommy Brown still races a '74 Lemans out in div 7. Dave Ribeiro has the '77 that Bob Michael built.

And speakin of rare Stockers, how about Bob Michael's '77 Catalina ?

Carroll Warling still races his '74 Lemans, Super Stocker. He held the nat record with it for a while. I think that was in SS/MA, IIRC. He has run it with a Lemans nose & a Grand Am nose. He ran a 400, back then. He's now running in GT, with an iron head 428. Sat he ran a .930 under, 10.94, which was good enuff for the #2 qualifying position. DRC listed his Lemans as a '68. But Norman said that was wrong. It was his '74.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2021#indextop

Many of ya'll will recognize some of the names associated with these cars I'm gonna post pics of.

Re: Pontiacs
 

Yeah, that's true for the SD engines. But, Norman Warling is doin good with his Tri-Power 389 '62 Cat. This past weekend, he qualified #1 for the 1st race & #2 for the 2nd race, at more than a sec under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2021#indextop

I think he said Bob Michael is running the same engine in his '62 GP.

Re: Pontiacs
 

Pontiac guys & dealers began racing the GTO back when they 1st came out. So, there were lots of GTO's that won races & set nat records.

But, towards the end of the 20th century, there were not a lot of GTO Stock/SS cars still racing. So, for this post, I decided to mention some of the A-body GTO Stock/SS cars that have raced in the last 20 years or so. Some still race occasionally. Some don't.

I can think of a couple of '68's. One was an F/S car, belonging to Adam Strang.

One belonged to Tim Gillespie.

The only '69 I can think of, that has been active in recent years, belongs to Art Peterson, in CA.

Todd Kuhn has been driving a '70 model Stocker now for a few years. It has the 1st year 455 engine.

Bill Eadelis has a '70 SS car.

For '71, the closest thing to a GTO I can think of is a 455HO powered T-37. Don Turk now has the Rock Running "Super Sleeper T-37. Scott Underhill held the E/SA nat record a few years back, with his.

Todd Hoven ran a '72 & won a nat event with it, back in '08, IIRC. Also got the G/SA class win at Indy that year.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop

The Axemaker & Reuland families ran a '72 GTO for years. IIRC, Sam Reuland posted on this site that there are plans to possibly put it back on the track, for limited duty.

Larry Maxwell ran a '72 455HO powered Lemans for years. I think a lady from Canada, named Stephanie Pike, drives it now.

Re: Pontiacs
 

Hey, if any of ya'll have any info & pics of competitive Pontiac V8 powered Stock/SS cars that have been missed, in all these Pontiac threads, by all means please post your info & pics.

If you have the names but no pics, post the names. Maybe there will be somebody here who has more info & pics about the car/cars.

For example: I know of a guy who raced back in the '70's & early '80's for sure. He was Stock RU at an IHRA points race, which was held at I-20 Dragway, in Tyler TX, in 1978.

His name is Billy Joe Moravits. He drove an early '70's T/A in '78. Have learned that he later raced a 3rd gen GT car. I know he ran it at the Hallsville TX track. He was/is from San Antonio TX.

Learned that his kin(uncle I think), Barney Moravits had a machine shop & built the Pontiac engines for Billy Joe.

I think I've asked here before. But I'll do it again, now. Does anybody reading this know either of these Moravits guys, anything about their cars/racing operation ?

Does anybody here have contact info for either of them ? I Googled & found that Barney's T & P Machine is closed. But you can click on the site & see the pics.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?pb=!1...oiowCnoECEIQAw

Online info shows phone number for both guys. Neither number produced any results.

Re: Pontiacs
 

I mentioned a few of the rare Pontiac powered Stock/SS cars I know of, in other Pontiac threads.

The Indy class win by Bob Michael, in his '77 Catalina Stocker, brought this back to mind. I've never seen or heard of another '77 Catalina Stocker.

Ever since their introduction, Firebirds have been raced. From '67 thru '74, there was always something unique about each year model.

Of course, the '67 was unique because it was the 1st Bird. Also the 1st year of the 400 engine, 1st Q-jet on a Pontiac V8(I think), & TH400 instead of the 2-speed Super Turbine 300 the Earlier GTO's used.

'68 was the 1st year of the Pontiac 350, including the 350HO. Also the 1st year of the Pontiac round port heads.

'69 was the 1st year of the Trans Am. 1st year of the famous RAIV engine.

'70 was the 1st year of the new 2nd gen body style. 1st year of the shaker hood & associated 2nd gen T/A trim. Also 1st year(I suppose the ONLY year) that a Chevy 12-bolt rear end was used in a Bird.

'71 was the 1st year a 455 was offered in a Bird. 1st year of the round port 455HO engine & the 8.5 corporate rear end.

Not a lot of change for '72. But, most of the '72 engines did not have the end exhaust manifold/header bolt holes. This was NOT a good thing.

'73 was the 1st year of the SD455 engine.

In '74, the Birds got what I think were called "Federal Bumpers". There have been lots of '74 Birds running Stock & SS.

For '75, they got turn signal/parking lights in the grill. Also was the 1st year of the "wrap-around" rear windshield. This is the oldest year model of which I've run across VERY few class cars. Right now, the ONLY one I can think of belongs to Ryan Warter, up in the Northwest. He won the Northwest nats with it, recently.

'76 was another unique year for Birds. The nose & tail were completely changed. The '70-'75 Formula twin-scoop hood would still fit. But, I've also seen a Formy hood on a '76, which looked more like the later '70's Formy hoods. This was the last year of the 455 engine. But it was only available in a Bird, with a 4-speed manual trans. So, I've never seen one, in class racer form. The only '76 Bird Stocker I've seen belonged to Mike Morgan. He won class at Indy with it, back in 2014. Kevin Love now owns it.

There were several changes for the '77-'78 Birds. Main one was the front end/nose/hood. Shape of the T/A shaker was changed. '77 was the last year of the Pontiac 350. '78 was the last year of the 400 engine with an auto trans. So, there have been LOTS of these models raced, thru the years.

'79 was the last year of the 400 Pontiac engine. But, it was only available with a 4-speed trans. So, I've never seen a '79 400 equipped Stocker.

The '80-'81 Birds had the 301 in turbo & non-turbo versions. Have never seen a non-turbo version Stocker. There have been several 301T Stockers that did very well.

So, of all these Bird models, the '75 & '76 are the models I've seen the least numbers of. So, I'll post pics here of only those 2.

Re: Pontiacs
 

Here's a car I probably mentioned in the Pontiac SS thread. As far as I know, it's the only '67 Bird that has run SS, in quite a few years.

As far as I can remember, it's the only big-tire '67 SS Bird I've ever seen a pic of.

I've posted pics of some small tire '67 SS Birds from the early years. But can't remember another big tire '67.

This one belongs to Joel Larkin. It runs SS/IA. I suppose that in this time period you could call it a one-of-a-kind Bird.

Re: Pontiacs
 

2 more rare Pontiacs are the 350 Pontiac powered '77 Bird, running SS, & a '74 350 powered GTO, running SS.

I only know of one of each. The '77 Bird was raced by Sal Piacentini. Mike Morgan bought it & has raced it for the last several years.

Of course, the SS GTO belongs to Bill Rink.

Both cars have won class at Indy. Mike has been RU to Bill, at least a couple of times. So, these 2 cars are both rare & quick. :)

In 2018, the Bird was quicker, qualifying @ #11, but Mike waited too long to leave & lost the SS/MA class win to Bill.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2018#indextop

No, '77 Birds & '74 GTO's are not rare. But as 350 powered Super Stockers, they are indeed rare.

Re: Pontiacs
 

Another Stock/SS car I consider rare is the '69 Bird. The recent debut of the Bruce Noland '69 T/A reminded me of this.

Other than the "New" T/A, the only other active '69 Birds I know of are the John Schloe Stocker & the Keri Angeles Pari SS Bird.

John once ran the RAIV engine, 'til he cracked a head. Has still run mid 10's with D-port heads. That's really good, especially considering the fact that NHRA gives the '69 D-port engine more hp than the nearly identical '68 400 engine.

That's probably the reason there are not any other '69 Birds running Stock. The only other one I know of that raced this century belonged to Kevin MacNicol. He changed it over to Super Street, several years back.

And of course, the SS Bird I mentioned was supposedly the 1st reg SS class Pontiac 400 car to get into the 9's. Did it back in 2000, with Keri driving. I assume the car was built by her Dad, John Angeles.

Re: Pontiacs
 

I've mentioned that there have been a few 301 Turbo Birds that ran pretty good.

But, I only know of one 301 non-turbo Pontiac Stocker. It is a '79 Lemans. Belongs to Billy Nees. Don Himes drove it for a few years.

I'll have to class it as another one-of-a-kind Pontiac Stocker. There may have been others. If so, I'm not aware of it. Billy will know.

Some may not be aware that the 301 4-barrel engines came with an 800cfm Q-jet carb. From what I've read, the weak links in the 301 are the block & the crank. The 301T blocks & cranks are said to be stronger than the non turbo blocks/cranks. I've also read that most all '80 & '81 301 engines used a 301T block, even it was not turbo equipped. All the 301T parts are getting hard to find. So, a 301 is probably not a good engine to use for a new Stocker build.

Re: Pontiacs
 

Ron Garey built a 77 Cat about 25 years ago. He runner-uped at a Div 4 points meet with it... He then went back to the Buicks.
We had a 77 Bonnie between 3 of my friends. No one ever got around to building it.
I tried to sell the roller here on C/R, cheap..Nobody ever responded. I ended up scrapping it.

Re: Pontiacs
 

Yeah, I reckin some guys don't really think they're racin unless they drive some sort of Musclecar or at least something that is sorta sporty lookin.

Gotta admit that I don't particular like to see SOME of the cars on the track, which are racing today. It's not so much just the family sedan "grocery getter" type body styles. It's those really ugly compact type, "economy" cars that were REALLY slow & really ugly & the 1st ones to wear out & be junked, all over the country.

Not gonna mention any particular car or body style(except Pontiac), for fear of offending some non-Pontiac guy.

I actually don't think that '77 Catalina looks half bad, in race form. I actually like it better than the '77 Lemans body style. As many here know, he built one of those too. I think Dave Ribeiro has it now.

There have been several of those '77 Lemans Stockers that have done pretty good. The Kyle Riley "Who's Next" car comes to mind.

I remember back when the Pontiac A-body changed, from '72 over to the new style, in '73. I thought those '73's were about the ugliest Pontiac I'd ever seen. It's the rounded off tail section that looks bad, to me. I've always thought the '73 GTO was the ugliest ever made.

I like the Grand Am nose pretty good. IIRC, Don Elgin & Don Turk ran the GA nose. Carroll Warling has run both a GA & a Lemans nose on his record holding '74 SS car.

Tommy Brown runs a Lemans nose on his '74. There may be others I'm forgetting, or just don't know about.

The '73-'77 A-body I'd like to run is a '77 Can-Am. Don't remember ever seeing a pic of a serious Can-Am Stocker. As of right now, the '77 Bird is the only '77 body that takes a big hit from NHRA. So, that means that any '77 body should be more competitive than a Bird. But the Birds just LOOK so much better & faster.

Hey, as the old saying goes: "Looks ain't everything". Another saying is: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". :)

Re: Pontiacs
 

Every year when the US Nationals race comes around, I suppose it brings up thoughts & memories of past US Nats, for most class racers & their fans.

Those who have actually participated in one or more of the races will probably think back on things that happened to them in a particular year, or several years.

For those of us who have never been a participant or even attended an event, we might think back to what some of our favorite drivers or cars did, at one or more particular races.

Since I've never been, and ESPECIALLY because I'm a Pontiac Freek, I always think back on what Pontiac V8 powered cars have done, during the history of the big race.

This year has been no exception. I immediately think of my 1st Pontiac hero, Truman Fields & his '73 Stock win & '77 Class win.

Then I think of that '68 Bird that won in '73, winning again in '77, with Mike McKinney driving.

Next I think of '74 when Al Vanis won Stock, in a '74 Ventura & Rock Running won his class in a '74 GTO.

Next I usually think of Mick Leiferman who was Stock RU 3 years running in his '71 GTO record holder.

Then I think of my 2nd Pontiac hero, Jack Mullins, who won SS in '75, beating Miss Mighty Mopar, Judy Lilly, in the final.

Next I usually go back to the early years, remembering the early '60's Pontiacs that either won the race or at least their class. 2 of these drivers are always Lloyd & Carol Cox. I always think of Lloyd winning the A/FX class in '62 & Carol winning the S/SA class.

One Pontiac win that many younger folks may not even be aware of is the Top Dragster class, at the '62 Indy race. There was no Top Fuel class. These dragsters were the quickest cars in competition that year.

The final pitted famous dragster driver Don Garlits against a Mickey Thompson Pontiac powered dragster driven by Jack Chrisman.

The Pontiac powered dragster won the race ! I think that is a VERY big deal. I assume it is the ONLY Indy race a Pontiac powered dragster ever won. If I'm wrong, somebody can post the correct info.

https://bangshift.com/bangshift1320/...ine-dragsters/

I don't think there has been another Pontiac V8 powered win since '77, in Stock or SS. If I'm wrong. somebody please post the correct info.

But, there have been LOTS of Pontiac powered class wins. And, I know for sure there was at least one #1 qualifier in SS, when Ken Shawver did it, in his '78 T/A.

Would love to know of any other Pontiac V8 powered #1 qualifiers, if there were any. ??? :confused:

Re: Pontiacs
 

In other Pontiac threads I've mentioned the Pontiac powered GT Super Stock cars.

I think it has been established that Don Kennedy proposed most of the rules that were adopted for the GT class. They basically allow engines to be run in a body for which that engine was never an option.

Some common Pontiac examples would be running a Pontiac V8 in a 3rd or 4th gen Bird body, running a '70 or newer Pontiac V8 in a 1st gen Bird body, running a 428, 455, or other Pontiac V8 engine in a Pontiac body in which the engine was not an option, and running a Pontiac V8 in a Chevy body.

Not sure who actually had the very 1st Pontiac powered GT car. May have been Don Kennedy. Maybe somebody who knows for sure will chime in.

The most famous Pontiac GT car is probably the "Hatari" 4th gen Bird. Peter Biondo won SS championships with it. Also won his 1st one with a 3rd gen Hatari GT Bird.

Can't name all the Pontiac GT cars that have run. Besides Don Kennedy, I know that Carroll Warling had one, back when Don was running his 3rd gen.

I know that Billy Joe Moravitis ran one, tho I haven't been able to get all the details of that car, yet.

Steve Smith ran a strong 3rd gen, which I think we have established now belongs to Scott Burton.

Victor Santos ran a nice 3rd gen, which now belongs to Bill Kennedy, in div 1.

Greg Meyer has a real nice 3rd gen.

Leo Glasbrenner ran a nice 4th gen, for a few years, as did Johnny Duncan. The Duncan car is now raced by Sean Pickett & John Agnetta, with power by Phil Monteith.

Carroll Warling has a '74 GTO GT car. Larry Maxwell has a '68 Bird, running a '74 350 engine.

Lynn, Casey, & Stacy McCarty run a 3rd gen Bird & a small late model Pontiac of some sort, which I've forgotten.

Don Kennedy still runs a 428 powered Sunfire.

Then of course, there are at least 2 Cobalts running a 428 Pontiac engine. Both those cars have won class at Indy.

I'm sure there are quite a few others I either forgot or don't know about. Those who know of others are encouraged to post that info.

I've noticed that some regular SS Pontiacs have switched over to a GT class. I've read they do that so that their reg SS class combo won't get a hp hit, if they go a bit too quick.

For pics on this post, I'll just post one pic of each body style Pontiac GT, that I know of. As most know, there are minor variations between year models, in both 3rd & 4th gen Birds. But I'll only post pics of one 3rd gen & one 4th gen.

Thought of another one. Carroll Warling has been running his '74 Lemans in GT, with an iron head 428.

Also, I think Keri Angeles has been running her '69 Bird in GT, at least at some races.

Re: Pontiacs
 

Some of those pics show how little most racers know about Pontiacs.
Neither The Worm's car or C Warling's are Grand Am bodies.

Pontiac V8 a corporate motor? Still waiting for someone to show where one was ever used in a Chevrolet body.

The Mullins motor was a stick only combination, yet we used to see them in GT automatic cars in Div. 4/

The 78 180 hp ' bird wasn't available with a stick, even though one set the L/Stock record ...never mind! ;-)