Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

I need experienced Stock racers' opinions please. I've been reading a lot of the threads on here, specifically ones I search for about money to get into Stock or SS. Most every thread goes on and on about how you gotta spend $50k on a stocker to race it.

Thinking of getting into NHRA Stock (at the divisional level for now) from the bracket racing perspective and I see people winning from the bottom half of the qualifying sheet wondering why folks act like it's required to spend that kind of money to go Stock racing. Maybe I'm just naive, so I'm open to enlightenment please. With an average of 6 or 7 cars in f/sa per race out of 70-100 cars, how likely is it I run one? How often would you guys say you run someone in your class for heads up?

Assuming I'm decent bracket racer and can do okay every other time, those handful of races I go up against my own class are just part of the deal right? Surely some races I wouldn't hit another f/sa, yeah? And if I'm not the fastest f/sa anyway, why bother trying to go all out on it for now?

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

I've have not been to many races,maybe 25 nats,div and opens.I have been in five heads-ups races in G/SA. So that's 20% of the race I've been to I have hit a car in my class. I'm 3 for 5 and only 1 time was i the faster car.

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

You don't have to spend 50k to race stock. Beard doesn't have close to that and he can kick *** at any race he goes to even those 100k cars. My dad has told me many times your car doesn't care if the other is 100k and came out of a 500k rig. It doesn't matter.

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

I don't have $50K in my Super Stocker, nor is there $50K in Terry's Stocker I drive. They're not the fastest by a long shot, but they've both won Wallys and World Championships. *CAN* you blow $50K on a Stocker? I imagine. Guess it all depends on what your goals are. Pick your battles.

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

For someone wanting to get into Stock on a budget and might be afraid of a heads up pairing, the "non roll bar required" classes ( N/S-N/SA and down ) would be the way to go.
Not as many racers in those classes.

The only downside is they don't run as quick as an F class car, but the buy in cost is a lot less also.
It all depends on how much you want to spend, but the pay out for 1st place is the same for any class in Stock.

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

ooops
double post

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

My dad's favorite is similar. They won't be worried about what car you drive if you can make them instead say "That guy won again?"

The car I have (which already has a roll bar) I've already looked into it, the combination I think I'd like best is a natural E but I don't know that I can make weight, forcing me to F. I could also get into a natural Q but with the majority in the 10s and 11s I don't have a history of doing well at the stripe when I'm the significantly slower car, so that means either bother losing a bunch with a 13.0 car until/if I get better or get mid 11s like everyone else and suffer through the heads up. My question here is kind of, how much of that suffering should I expect?

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

Depends on where you are located. There are a ton of F cars in Div. 1 & 3. You'll spend a lot of time playing the ladder trying to dodge people. There are less in G, if you can add the weight.

Unless you're chasing a bucket list/Wally, quite honestly there is little value in class racing anymore. Tons of time off work and lots of travel for very little track time and poor financial return on investment anymore. There are a *lot* of big money bracket racing opportunities these days that provide more bang for the buck.

If it's something you want to do just for the sake of doing it, you'll find a lot of help and resources on this forum. Best of luck with your endeavor!

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

$50,000 for F/SA from scratch.

First is to find a car that can run F/SA.
How much will that cost?

Estimate for a good body, suspension and interior at least $15,000
Transmission Converter and Shifter $3,000
Rear Suspension, Body, Driveshaft $4,000 properly upgraded.
Front Suspension, Line Lock, Cooling fans, stuff $1000
Roll Bar, Seat Belts, Seat, Jacket, Helmet about $2,000
Stock Eliminator Engine Competitive $10,000
Wheels and Tires $3,000
Electrical and Instrumentation $1,000
Paint and Body $2500
Everything else $1000
Personal time building it! Priceless !

Wife for Dinner and Shopping or Jewelry to explain why you are spending $50,000 on a car she cannot drive..? $10,000

Reliable Vehicle and Trailer to Tow with $30,000

YEAH I can see $50,000 or more investment to run F/SA!

Even if you get a ready-to-go car most for F/SA will be in the $35k range.
Still will need upgrades to keep it reliable.
Can run Brackets anywhere and Stock races are everywhere with NHRA, IHRA and Independent S/SS Series!

My 2 Cents

D

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

Sorry, it's a natural E. Unless I can add even more weight for G I was already expecting to not be able to diet the car enough.

And yeah, kind of those things. I tried 1/8 racing last year but I found I don't like it near as well as 1/4 racing and I wanted more of a challenge than ET sportsman (1/4 around here). I'm young enough where if I hate it I can say I tried it then go back to bracket.

I appreciate the responses.

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

I ran 8 races last year and had 1 heads up run other than class eliminations. Some of those guys running middle or bottom of the ladder could be in the Top half of they wanted so don't be fooled. I built my car for under 25k, it's definitely not the fastest around but I don't necessarily worry about ducking a lot of people either. If you're considering turning your bracket car into a stocker I would say no unless your chassis is already kind of set up that way from the start, otherwise it may be much cheaper to buy a running car like you want. Good luck and have fun.

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

There honestly is no reason to spend 50k. There is nothing wrong with starting off only going a little under the index. Odds of a heads up definitely depend on where you are racing. After you lose a few you will be determined to make your car faster. Its frustrating to drive well and then get your doors blown off in a heads up. You can't always be the fastest, but it's good to be able to compete with average cars. Learning to play the ladder will greatly reduce your chances for an early round heads up matchup.

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

You could build a legal stock Eliminator car for less than $10,000 and race for the same purse and trophy as the guy who has 50, 60 or $70,000 in his. I know, been there done that. Do the math and study the guide. Pick a combo that makes sense for your budget. There's lots to choose from. Ask Billy Nees or Paul Wong.

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

Two of the more interesting people to listen to are Billy Nees and Mark Yacavone. They build stockers on a budget that are competitive.


Mike A114 P/SA

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

It certainly does not happen real often.
That being said......The first two national races
this year both my boy and I each had one (N/SA and D/SA)very
early in Eliminations.
At Autolite Natls some years ago....I had three in a
row (E/SA) first three rounds.
If you are on a budget = BUY a CAR!
You can sometimes buy them a Quarter on the Dollar or
less if they have a few problems.
I paid $5,500. for my Demon E/SA and $7,500 for Aspen Wagon I/SA
and both were Nice cars and under the index (Wagon ran 9 Under with
a little tuning and NO more money).
Spend a lot of time and a little more money as you can and HAVE FUN!

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

That'd be great too. I've been checking the stock section of racing junk but no small block Mopars I like yet. Anyone know of any not listed in the $15k range pm me, that's the cash I'm working with. :)

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

I think the reason we do this is for the enjoyment of the sport. If you want to try a stocker than build what you afford. Unless you are way into class wins it really doesn't how far "under" you can run. Build what you can and have a good time. Some days you will run into someone in your class and you might get beat. After while you might be the "hitter" and won't be able to lose in class. I don't think it makes much difference if you run a tenth or an hour under in the finals. Go to the races meet a new group of racers, ask questions and soon you will be running hard. Just have good time doing it. Good luck and happy motoring.

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

You just have to know that if your slow you may run into a fast car at some point in eliminations and it would likely be the end of your chance to win. Been there, done that as the saying goes. You have to decide if that is ok for you. I had a very slow H/SA at the time and managed to get down to 7 cars at the last big race of the year in my area. I was driving great, felt like I could win but with 3 other H cars left at 7 cars I knew I was toast. I had to run the fastest and he was.5 faster than me. Very tough to even stage under those conditions. I did and got hammered. Pack up and move on. Either work to get faster and spend some money as you can or do something else. Stock is fine but you have to know what your getting into if you do run it. In my area we have many fast cars....

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

Walk the pits at a Divisional and look for cars in the pits that are comparable to the combo you are thinking of using. You can get a lot of info and as you know most racers are ready to talk about their cars.

Maybe even get a lead on a car for sale, or a engine trans combo

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

I agree with Michael seems to me that there are alot of big money footbrake/ No Box races out there that are more fun for your buck

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

One key reason Stock has a good following are the racers that like to build their imaginary hot rod, or the odd combination even unpopular combinations.
Who would of thought of building a Fairmont or Gremlin or or or or!
Then making them run under the index and some times a national record.
Bracket Cars anyone can build a fast one.
Class Cars are are different with a loyal following and not always about the money.
It is about the chase and ability to get a slow car going very fast!
Such as Penny Pinching Nees vs Daddy War Buck Copo.
For some reason when you go Bracket racing there seems to be a target to get you.
Sweet when you win!

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

Interesting thread.
My Son & I are jumping into Stock.
I'm sure it will be a learning curve for sure.


We were fortunate to be able to trade one of our bracket cars for a Stocker.
That was the cheapest way for us to get started.
We will probably be running IHRA more than NHRA.
Memphis should be our first race.

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

What did you guys spend?

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

You do not need to spend $50K on an F/SA.
I paid a little extra up front, because of the body style that I wanted and I was looking for a car that did not need body or paint, was solid and reasonably clean.
It is not the fastest F/SA, but I run with a local S/SS group and I just need to be under the IHRA index.
Last year was my first year in the car, so I spent a few dollars on a few upgrades and the usual on maintenance items.
This year I needed to have the transmission gone through and a gear change.
By the time I make my first pass, this year, I will have somewhere just north of $35K in the car, and that is Canadian dollars.

I looked for a car for 4 years while I bracket raced.
If I can give you one piece of advice, buy a car that you like, is under the index and is legal.
Making improvements and making the car "yours", is half the fun.

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

Was like you wanting to try Stock but did not know much about it.
The way it unfolded could be unique I started by hanging around the pits asking a few questions and friends introducing me to theirs who ran stock for many years. Through work and my engine builder met a well know stock racer and we hit it off. After about a year, while bracket racing and driving pretty good he offered me a ride which I took advantage of for a couple of years. Was a great learning experience from several standpoints to say the least it opened doors.
When that ended went back to bracket racing and began looking at the guide and deciding what I wanted to do. Got a lot of good advice from seasoned stock racers to buy an existing car but liking things my way and having some ideas that would more than likely not be incorporated in an existing car in my price range decided to build a car from scratch. It took 5 years to get to the track mostly because some of my ideas being the less glorious dirty work you would pay thousands of dollars for others to do and well sometimes I just did not feel like setting my coveralls on fire and getting dirt in my eyes!
The effort was to get the car to the track be happy with what it would run and just race which I did and was somewhat successful.
At the time the chassis I picked if an existing stocker would have cost 20-25K for for pretty much what I ended up with from a performance standpoint without some of the dirty work which would have ended up doing later and spent more money. As predicted the cost of the scratch built car was higher but having had the opportunity to race stock and meet everyone gained valuable information on what was necessary, the best advise was if your going to buy a part purchase what you would ultimately need not just what will work and figure you'll buy the good stuff later just buy the best you can afford once. Had between 30-35K in the car when it hit the track did not have the best engine and transmission but felt the chassis was very good my focus on the build.
Came out in 2009 and ran under the index after some on track tuning and experience with it ran well under. Picked the combo because not many were running it but in the five years it took to get out others had switched and got it some horsepower.
The class I ran it in was ans is not very populated but the way things were working out it became obvious was lining up for heads ups second and third round could not win and got my head handed to me trying to play the ladder a little so either had to make the best of it or step up the program. But the car was killer consistent and went rounds!
What makes stock and super stock so great is the racers a few who became friends watched me flog the car front to back race after race trying to improve it. Resisting updating the engine as it was a quality piece that though not fast could go 300 runs and was killer consistent. Decided to buy a lightweight transmission but no improvement, these same fellas told me I was short on horsepower and no matter how much more the car was flogged there would be not much to gain.
Had a decision to make in being happy with what I had or "open my wallet". :eek:

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

I bought the Volare as a turnkey crate motor Stocker for $9K. Throughout its life as a Stocker, it got a fuel cell, an Auto Meter playback tach, rewiring, and freshened the engine periodically, and did little upgrades along the way. I had about $18K in upgrading everything to run Super Stock. I did later backhalf the car, but in retrospect, didn't have to, although the shocks and Moser 60 rear were a good investment. I'm actually going back down to a smaller tire, hopefully this weekend (29.5x10.5 M/T Pro Bracket Radial).

The biggest investment is going to be the engine. Other than that, invest in getting the converter right, radials, a good tach and shifter, and let it eat. Our Stocker setups have always been just Super Stock leaf springs, and a pinion snubber. The Volare just had stock shocks for a very long time. Most of the things on a Stocker build list are more on the "want" and "go fast" lists more than the "need" list.

I think we got about $10K in upgrading Terry's car from crate motor to NHRA Stock, which was a turnkey engine, upgrading trans, more gear, and loosening the converter. 'Course he got a decent chunk of that back by selling the crate motor.

You can save a lot of money by knowing what your end goal is and spending smart money on the right stuff in the right places the first time, instead of upgrading a little bit at a time.

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

Michael has a way of looking at things in such a logical way.

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

I got my street car soon to be stocker for $600.00. Then started working on it. I do a lot of the work myself and have a big time racing. Do what you can afford and have fun with your family at the races.

Re: Looking into F/SA, why spend $50k?
 

Well said Larry