playing the ladder
 

I have seen a few comments on playing the ladder and would like to get more knowledge about it. Once you have made your 1st time trial is that not the base for your ladder position, which you can only change with a quicker ET on the next run(s). Please help me understand how you play with the ladder.

Re: playing the ladder
 

Its pretty easy actually. You set your car up to run slower than its capable of for that time run, or, you hit the brakes or lift at some point prior to the finish line.

Re: playing the ladder
 

Right Bryan, I think the "how" is easy enough to decipher from the posts on here. I, for one and maybe henrys57wagon, would like a little more insight to the logic. Are you trying to run against a slower car? Do you look at the entries and know someone who is not seasoned and aim for a pairing with them? What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

Thanks
Rick Thomason
GTOMayhem

Re: playing the ladder
 

Usually, you are trying to avoid a Heads Up run......there are other reasons though....

Re: playing the ladder
 

Either trying to get or avoid a heads up run depending on if you are the faster or slower car in the class. Trying to position yourself for a bye run at some point in the competition. Trying to position your self to knock out another competitor in the points battle. There are other reasons some try to play the ladder. Its not real easy to do as there are usually a number of racers doing the same thing and it is difficult to land in the spot that you want. Personally I am not that good to be able to do that so I just run all out every run.

Re: playing the ladder
 

What I don't understand is how you can have very much control over where you end up on the ladder given that others are also changing their qualifying positions in what seems to be to be unpredictable ways. I can see how I could choose to move up or not move up on the ladder, but unless I'm currently facing a heads up run against a faster car I'm not sure why I'd want to.

I guess this might clear up part of it: Do most racers stand pat with what they run in the first session most of the time, or is there normally a lot of reshuffling. If there's usually lots of changes in the ladder after Q1 it seems like the effect of me going faster would be extremely hard to predict.

Re: playing the ladder
 

It seems like Russian Roulette to me with multiple people doing it.

Re: playing the ladder
 

Stephen Bell has the ladder figured out here in D4. He just qualifies No 1 all the time and a gets a bye first rd...........lol

Re: playing the ladder
 

I used to do that some, but I quit worrying about that, as I can't run as far under as Stephen. LOL

Re: playing the ladder
 

It's not always about trying to line up a heads up run. Sometimes you might be trying to get yourself on one side or the other for instance a line yourself up with a late round bye run or simply trying to stay away from a buddy or teammates. It can be difficult at times but the majority of racers are flat out on that first round so then you just need to figure out where a select few are trying to get and line yourself up appropriately. It can backfire.....

Re: playing the ladder
 

First thing you need is a ladder book. Then you can get a plan together.
The number can change on the second day of a Divisional too.
Qualifying doesn't change much ,after the morning session. Okay, maybe after first round of class too. LOL
As you can see, it's not an exact science.

Re: playing the ladder
 

I was wondering about this too. I guess in a national you pretty well know the number from the entry list online and therefore you know which ladder you're using, but I was wondering if late entries are still possible. Especially at a divisional.

If I understand these ladders (I downloaded a bunch of them in pdf form recently) one additional car upsets the whole apple cart.

Re: playing the ladder
 

You will have no shows at Nationals sometimes too.

Re: playing the ladder
 

Some good in-site here. When I raced I just ran all out on each pass, where I ended up was where I ended up. Who I ran was who I ran.

Re: playing the ladder
 

here is a previous thread and 1 racer has software he sells that does the work for you. http://www.classracer.com/classforum...=ladder&page=2

Re: playing the ladder
 

Look around when time trials are running, ever see anybody within eyeshot of the scoreboards writing in a notebook most of the time? They're watching you!

Re: playing the ladder
 

Send me a PM I sell a ladder program that makes it easier.

Re: playing the ladder
 

I've had the hard copy available for some time now, no worries.

Re: playing the ladder
 

Since my car is not capable to be in the top half of the field, my main focus (and perhaps those who may be a middle of the pack runner), is not to qualify in the final three positions, or the lower portion of the quickest half of the field...whoever the bottom three qualifiers are (and the slowest three of the quick half), will have to go out first during first round, and a cold track with little/no teeth on it, would not be something I'd want to embrace when it mattered most! My .02 worth .

Re: playing the ladder
 

All the Bonza ladders are enclosed in a nice binder also, definately worth the $$.....

Re: playing the ladder
 

What MJ said^^^^^

Re: playing the ladder
 

In honor of one of my best professors from my educational days:
"I sincerely question the accuracy of this" ...It would be interesting to know the accuracy of different drivers efforts at obtaining their goals when they "play" the ladder. Given the number of variables determining a final ladder, one has reason to suspect the best at it have very limited success.
Just a feeling.
Doug Jonak

Re: playing the ladder
 

I think you may be surprised as well, you ever wonder how certain people always seem to have the late round bye. Maybe it's a coincidence or maybe not, ofcourse you have to win 3 or 4 rounds to get that bye!

Re: playing the ladder
 

If you can dial a place on the ladder (other than the top 3 or 4), you deserve a degree in "Bracketalogy" ....contrary to what was said earlier that most make a "balls out" run in the first Qualify session.....I believe many carry a lot of extra weight, unless they slam the brakes at the end. But, that is not hard to figure in eliminations trying to figure how much your opponent is holding..... changing weight seems to me to throw off your competition, and move up the ladder if ya need to. Just my 2 cents.

Re: playing the ladder
 

"If you can dial a place on the ladder (other than the top 3 or 4), you deserve a degree in "Bracketalogy" ....contrary to what was said earlier that most make a "balls out" run in the first Qualify session.....I believe many carry a lot of extra weight, unless they slam the brakes at the end. But, that is not hard to figure in eliminations trying to figure how much your opponent is holding..... changing weight seems to me to throw off your competition, and move up the ladder if ya need to. Just my 2 cents."


Yeahhhh, that's it----

Re: playing the ladder
 

Still have my "First Edition" from before the Pro Ladders came out! The binder`s a little duct tapped though.