no oil at roller rockers
 

My buddy's 350 lost both ends of a pushrod and there is no oil coming out of any of the push-rods/ rockers. He revved it up to about 2000 without any oil coming out. It has about 30# at 2000, about 15 at idle. Any thoughts?

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

Not enough information.

Already running for X amount of time?

New build?

Any changes?

Street engine?

Race engine?

Cam and lifter type and brand?

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

Car was bought with rebuilt street engine with blower, about 2000 miles on it. No oil on either of the heads. Don't know what type of valve train it has. Going to pull the engine and see what is up. Will post when we get that far and ask what we should be looking for. Still open for advice. Thanks

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

Is that 30# oil pressure at 2000rpm if so you should have 60 to 80#
oil pressure. Looks like main brg too much clearance or they are bad.

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

Make sure the galley plugs are installed in back of the timing gear.

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

that and the by pass

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

What bypass?

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

By-pass on the oil filter adapter?

You also might want to check and see if the previous owner might have installed oil restricters in the lifter feed oil galleys at the back of the motor.

Hope you find your problem!

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

If the pushrod oil feed hole in the lifter isn't in the band of the lifter or doesn't have a groove machined from the band to the oil feed hole this could be your issue, sometimes the lifter bore clearance isn't enough if the feed hole isn't in the band. Just some more places to look...

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

It's not a Bowtie block, is it? Because with those, engine builders have been known to forget to reinstall the galley plug that feeds the cam tunnel, which causes seemingly unexplained, but repeated (until you figure it out) cam bearing and lifter failures, due to lack of oil. Obviously, if the camshaft isn't getting any oil, the pushrods and rocker arms won't, either.

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

Thanks all, he has not pulled the engine yet, will update when more is found.

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

What galley plug are talking about that feeds the cam tunnel ???

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

It's actually a small cup plug (on early Bowties I think it was .500 in diameter, on later blocks, .470. It is pressed in, and is under the rear main. I had an almost season-long problem failing cam bearings and lifters because the engine machinist removed the plug (to bottle-brush the oil galleys) and forgot to reinstall it. There was very little oil going up-top, and invariably, at least one of the cam bearings would turn. Finally got to the point where I said "No more bearings and camshafts and lifters, because it can't possibly be bad or improperly installed parts...again". We did a deep-dive for weird, uncommon problems and somebody who had experienced the same thing straight-out said "Your engine guy removed the plug and forgot to reinstall it".

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

Forgot to mention: it's there because having the plug in allows a wet-sump system to function properly. If you use a dry-sump system, you're supposed to leave it out.

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

You really should look and see how the oiling system works on a SBC if that plug is left out under the rear main cap once the oil filter is full the oil goes the path of less resistance and will by pass the filter.

Here is a thread to verify what I am saying.
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic...er=asc&start=0

Here is a pic of what I am talking about. Its a good idea know what your talking about before posting like that!!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...rrearcap-1.jpg

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

Allen Sherman's response was our problem once, cut a groove in lifter body and solved issue....used a Dremel tool and small cutting disk

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

Carl - Let me help you with a couple of things. First, I assume you do some kind of engine work for a living (or at least, as a sideline). If that is so, you should really learn that when a customer or fellow enthusiast tries to help others, but provides incorrect information, you gain absolutely nothing by being an asshole. Second, the information I posted was given to me by a noted (your would recognize his name instantly) race engine builder, so in addition to being so proud that you were able to correct John Lingenfelter (who was also apparently wrong about what happens when the plug is removed and not replaced), you could add this prestigious name to the list... that is, if like you, I was enough of a jerk to embarrass him publicly. And finally, if the plug being left out has absolutely no effect on the life of cam bearings, what do you suppose the engine builder to which I refer ACTUALLY did to eliminate the repeat bearing failure problem? He admitted that he discovered that the plug had been removed and not reinstalled, apologized for the error, and reassembled and dyno'ed the engine at no cost. And I never experienced a cam bearing failure again. So, if you can avoid telling me what an idiot I am, maybe you can help me understand what actually happened. Thanks.

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

This is a stock Chevy so I don't know about the plug. Sorry to start a post and have people pissed off at each other.

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

I never said you were an idiot if I did could you please quote that statement as I am not seeing it !!!!!! If I did I will apologize !!!!

I don't do this as a side line I build racing engines for a living for 40 plus years and a complete machine shop including a HAAS 4-axis CNC machining center. Over the years I have had alot of Championship engines and engines that have set National and World records.

MAY I ASK WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING ?????????????????????

As far as assholes go you may want to look in the mirror LOL. I am not the one who posted bogus info here it was you LOL

Once again if you know how the GM oil system works you would realize you don't have a clue what your talking about. Leaving the plug out from under the will just cause unfiltered oil to go through the engine. There is no restriction at all.

I will say GM OEM blocks do have issues with cam tunnels I see it all the time there is a reason GM line bores the cam tunnel with cam bearings in place to make up for there mistakes.

Other issues I have seen is guys will use stock cam bearings where a performance cam bearing should be and most guys don't know the difference.

Don't believe all you hear and read !!! Here is a quote from Mike Lewis and a great guy!!

Again know what you talking about and know how engines work so you don't give out bogus information is what I was getting at. Then you started name calling because I found you wrong. LOL Very interesting

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

Your response says more about you as a person than I ever could.

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

Oh, almost forgot. If you're such an expert (even smarter than Lingenfelter and the people at GM), what do you suppose did cause the cam bearing failures that the engine builder says he stopped entirely by installing the plug?

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

I guess I know a little more then John Lingenfelter and GM when it comes to oiling of the SB.

You should really go to this link and go over to Speedtalk and argue with the experts on this subject. If you want I can post this on your behalf.

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic...er=asc&start=0

Not installing the plug under the rear cap should does restrict the oil flow to the engine LOL

Again reread my prior post on cam bearing problems I did descibe them if you could only read.

In case you missed the link here it is again
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic...er=asc&start=0

Now you seem to be such an expert how does the engine loose oil pressure with out the plug under the rear main cap ???????????


Again read this link thoroughly and if you can understand what is written you will have your answer how smart GM and Lingenfelter really are and who is right. LMAO

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic...er=asc&start=0

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

The post about the plug under the rear cap shows how smart of person you are LOL

I wish I could post some of the PM's about you and this link LOL

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

I read the posts at the Speedtalk link when you first provided them. The way I see it, there are two ways you could have handled this. The way you could have handled it was to reply to my post by just saying you disagree with my information and provided the links you did to prove your position. You could have avoided telling me that I should know what I'm talking about before I post things. In addition to being arrogant as hell, that approach is just plain mean. The second way is the way you did it, treating me like a moron because I tried to contribute to the site by passing along (incorrect) information I had obtained from multiple, perfectly reputable sources. So the information was incorrect; what does humiliating me (and Lingenfelter, GM and others) accomplish? I don't really give a **** if you think I'm the dumbest MF in the world, because I have nothing to prove to you. I did what I did to try and help somebody with a problem, but ended up not helping. So what?

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

Some times reading books and listening to others is not even close to hands on experience. Not knowing how the GM oil system works and taken others advise is not the hot set up some times.

A little more research you would see that the plug out will not effect oil pressure.

I would say when your engine lost oil pressure it was because it spun cam bearing or two nothing to do the with the plug. Your engine builder should have a little more knowledge as well as he was not giving you good feed back.

You said I called you an idiot and I asked you to quote that statement so far no quote. I did not treat you like a moron. Ya you didn't have a clue what you were talking about and really is no need to keep crying about it. Your being a drama queen making up statements that were never posted.

Have a good day and move on !!!!!

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

he sure doesn't and his lack of knowledge and first hand experience goes far beyond this topic.

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

Once again leaving the plug out from under the rear cap will not affect oil pressure LOL

Spinning cam bearings will affect oil pressure either of them could figure that out LOL.

Any one that post you will loose oil pressure by leaving the plug out from under the rear cap are clueless how the SBC oil system works.

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

After reading thru this thread , I have decided to intentionally leave that plug out of my Dart block.

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

Too Funny !! One good thing about the Dart blocks they have no plug under the rear cap.

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

Finally got over to look at the engine. Bottom end looks good. Lifter bores are worn oblong and scared, one lifter(where broken pushrod is) has no oil hole in it? Roller rockers are all scored/ worn and some valve tips are also worn. The builder drilled and epoxied a oil fitting for gauge into the cavity where the oil filter goes, remote system used, oil gauge hole at top of block is plugged. All plugs are in place and the front oil gallery are staked in place. Can shows normal wear and lifters are not ruined. He is going to get a replacement engine rather than spend any money on this block.

Any other thoughts? Thanks all.

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

Yeah, start with something like a Dart SHP block, and a good forged rotating assembly. Build a truly nice solid foundation. Then you can do most anything you want, within reason.

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

This is just a street engine, once done the car is going up for sale as he is downsizing.

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

Is he taking the supercharger off, and building a budget normally aspirated street engine, or is he building another supercharged street engine?

If he came to me to have a supercharged street engine built, I'd do what I posted above, or send him elsewhere. I'd never touch a job putting a cheap short block under a supercharger. Not worth the hassle or the risk.

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

x100000000000000000000000000

Re: no oil at roller rockers
 

I cannot place enough emphasis on oil management / control. I have learned the hard way. Taking oil flow "for granted" or having "faith" is a big mistake.
Esp. with a vac pump and a wet sump.