How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track ??
 

I switched to the 30x9 Hoosier radial slick last spring, but because of engine issues I didn't get to run the car til the fall. I had no issues with getting the slicks to hook. I ran at 4 different tracks and at all of them traction was no issue with my 60 ft avg in the 1.44 - 1.46 range, and the car was lifting the front end nicely. Fast forward to this summer and i have had a lot of issues with the car spinning at the starting line. A few weeks ago at Norwalk for the no box race the car was good with no issues, but when i go to my home track (which is marginal at best), I can only get the car to hook before the heat gets in the track. Last Saturday my first two time runs were without issue, but as soon as the sun gets higher in the sky and has had a chance to build heat in the track(119 degrees) the car spins on the hit. My question is what if anything can i do to make these radial slicks work on a "hot" marginal track ? I have lowered launch rpm and soften the rear shocks as much as possible. I know my car isn't a stocker but it's ET and 60 ft times are comparable to most stockers so i was hoping I could get some pointers on what you all do when your having traction issues with the radial slicks. Thanks in advance for any and all help.
[IMG]http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...ps0pncg98r.jpg[/IMG]

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

How many passes do you have on the slicks ?

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

My log book is in the trailer but I'm pretty sure they had 58 going into last weekend.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

Put 100 lbs in trunk

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

Yep, that's what I had already decided I would try for this weekend ...lol, thanks.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

Mickey Thompson they will help

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

Not trying to steal the thread but more than one person told me the M/T radials might get 30 passes at best-----I bought a set------not sure its going to make thirty with ten to go-----anyone else comment on M/T lifespan ????

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

Well if I'm only going to get 50-60 passes out of the radials, I'll switch back to a bias ply slick. I have a new set Goodyear 4457's that I tried early this year and they were even more touchy than the Hoosiers. I think I'll try to sell them and get a set of bias ply's. I was hoping to get more input from the racers that use these slicks.... Surely every track you guys race on isn't prepped to perfection. Thanks countrypuppy and Jim Perrone for ur input. Im going to add weight in the trunk and take some timing out of it and hopefully I can get it to not spin. I've wasted 3 points races messing with this issue. I'll have me a set of bias ply's on it as soon as I sell the Goodyears.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

Add some weight, take out some initial timing. take some hit out of the converter, if you foot brake come up on the converter some. I have lowered tire pressure a little. But, if you do heavy burn outs, stop... In the real heat just barely see any smoke let them go. The tires are good, but you are right, in some conditions they are not as forgiving as a bias. Your car might not stand up as high as it usually does but it will help it hook and you can work on that set up and have the other for killer air. I hope this helps some.

Robert

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

I run a wider tire than you do also taller. Nothing can fix a bad track. The radials are much faster on my car than the bias. What are the other guys experiencing at the bad tracks. similar to you or not. If the other racers are not having a big problem than you might need some suspension adjustments on your car. I run Hoosier and get more passes than I did with the Mickeys.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

On my 3500 pound H stocker chevelle I am lucky to get 40 passes on a set of M/T Radials, they hook great just not long lasting.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

Radials are always less forgiving than a bias ply. I have over 100 passes on the 4457's that are on my COPO and they are not close to being done. They do not like a big burnout. What tire pressure did you try? I run 20-22 PSI. I agree that weight should help.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

Thanks for the help Robert..it's highly possible I'm doing to hard of a burn out. I'm loading up now to go to my local track test and tune. I'm taking out some timing and added 100 of weigh, hopefully it helps.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

I'm pretty much the only(sorta fast...lol) small tire car that races at my local track. All my buddies have back halved cars or tube chassis cars and they are having no issues at all. When my car hooks I 60ft as well as most of my buddies back halved cars. But when it's hot my car goes to crap and they don't have any issue.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

I've been at 21psi..but I haven't tried anything different in the heat. I was pretty sure I didn't want to go lower and was afraid to go much higher. I'll try 22psi tonight at test and tune.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

I wouldn't run a bias slick if they paid me to.

I run Hoosier 9" radials on a 10" wheel. Burnout is extremely minimal. I do not use a line lock. Low gear just to get them spinning, then shift to high.

Weight in the trunk is definitely good. I think I have a couple hundred pounds back there.

I run 17 psi but, honestly, it is only for even wear with my combo. I've been from 16 - 26 and have never seen a difference in performance. Half the time I don't even check them once I've made a couple passes.

It did take some work initially once I got some decent HP. You'll want to make sure the front end moves freely.

I've never counted passes, but I'm sure I get 150 on the Hoosier C07 tire.

Stick with them and you will be better for it! I love hearing others complain about a tricky track. As long as I don't go up in smoke, I know my 60' time will be within .01 of the previous run.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

Radials can be touchy on a marginal track for sure. I would drop the tire pressure to 18 and see if it helps. It will give the tire a bit more contact with the track. You may have just simply worn them out if you have been doing a heavy burn out. Not to say your car doesn't have a good suspension, but most stockers have a very well tuned and adjusted set up, with a lot of weight moved around.
My suggestion is to go with a 29.5x9 Mickey Thompson bias tire for bracket racing. They'll be .08 - .10 slower, hook great and if they spin it's only .01-.03. Not to mention they are much cheaper than the radials.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

Well the changes helped alittle . I lost .10 in the 60ft but it was better and consistent. After reading all these replies, I'm pretty certain I've been doing to hard of a burnout and the radials are worn out. A racer here had a set of bias ply 29.5x9 M/T for sale here at the track so I went ahead and bought them and having them mounted up this morning. I'll see how they work out and make my decision on which slick to run after I see how they do today in the heat. I'm leaning towards another set of radials, and changing my burnout routine. Im also going to get a weight ballast box built so I can add more weight if necessary. It's apparent that I have only been nibbling at adding weight, and was hesitant to add alot, but now that I see what adding 120lbs did to help I won't hesitate to add larger amounts of weight when I'm having traction issues in the future. Thanks for all the help, I probably should have made this post 3 weeks ago when I first started having issues.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

Have you ever thought of trying the M/T Pro bracket radial?

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

According to MT, the PBR tire is not a good choice for marginal tracks. The PBR is better than their pre-existing street/drag radial on an OK track, but will not perform like a bias on a marginal track.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

Yes I did look at the PBR, but as cad said they don't appear to be a better option on a marginal track.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

What shocks out back?

To make the radials work to the best they can a "GOOD" double adjustable shock is advisable.

Granted radials may struggle when the sun is beating on the track or the prep is poor, but some racers just don't take the time (or understand a radial setup) to sort the chassis tuning to make the tire work. It's usually more than bolting the tire on and setting the tire pressure. Weight out back is really a last resort when nothing else has worked.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

Rear suspension is ladder bar and Strange adjustable socks and coil over springs. I'm no expert by any stretch, but I have a pretty good handle (knowledge) on the rear chassis set up. Like I mentioned, on a well prepped track my car 60ft in the low 1.40's. Car weighs 3555 race ready and has less than 550 hp. I run 4.56 gear and a 9 inch Dynamic converter.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

You have a pretty good handle on the rear chassis for bias slicks or radials? How much experience do you have in setting up the car for radials. Planting a radial is a good bit different than a bias. A single adjustable shock ties your hands when it comes to tuning for a radial.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

I thought I had a handle on it with the radials until a few weeks ago...lol. All my best 60ft times have come with the radials on well prepped tracks. I'm still learning as I go, the car has only had "good" parts on it for the last two years. Up until then it was a low power car with a worn out loose converter and junk shocks and springs. So I'm definitely learning as I go.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

Well good track conditions will make everyone trying a radial a hero. It's when the track gets hot or lack of prep that tuning skills will show.

I'll clue you in on one thing. Radials need to be hit hard to plant then held down to allow the car to gain speed. This means loose rebound and semi-firm compression.

If you smack a bias as hard as you need to hit a radial the bias balls up, goes out of round and won't accelerate.

Best way to tune the chassis is to put a GoPro under the car looking at the tire/shock/suspension.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

Thanks for the info

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

Here's a video on a 275 DOT radial.

https://youtu.be/wiml81LoSa4

Slow motion version of the same run. Watch the timing of the shock extension.

https://youtu.be/wiml81LoSa4

Car detuned for a different class, different tire, different shocks, different IC, different ride height. Again, note the shock position in relation to the frame rail and the timing of how and when the chassis separates.

https://youtu.be/53DB6ZQNoZA?t=21s

Good luck.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

Don't overlook your front suspension. If I don't jack the front end of my stocker up and let the weight off the front springs, I will have to put new springs in once a year.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

No springs on the front of my Mopar. I run Calvert shocks and the rest of the front end is stock.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

The bias-ply M/T worked out pretty good. The car was a bit slower than the radials (when they hooked) but all in all I think they are gonna work out pretty well. They are a used set ( 20 passes) and have the stick shift side wall. The guy I got them from always ran tubes but I didn't have time to get tubes so I had them mounted without. I haven't ran tubes in years so I'm hesitant to put tubes in them. Even before I went to the Hoosier radials I didn't run tubes in my bias Hoosiers, never had any issue of them losing air or the slick moving on the rim. I marked these slicks and they didn't move at all yesterday but I'm alittle worried about how much they are wadding up. I started with 14.5 lbs and in the video of the car it seem to be wadding them so I up the pressure to 16lbs and it spun a tad ( lost. 07 in the 60ft.) so I took them back down to 14.5 and it was consistently 1.48-1.49 with a very soft set up and low rpm launch( compared to what I was running with the radials when they were hooking). I was able to go 4 rds and the car was working well, so I consider the change a good change.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...ps0pncg98r.jpg

this^^^

Radial slicks requires a car that works and a starting line that is prepped! Track prep on test/tune days at most tracks along with "marginal at best" prep on race day won't cut it!

If you chose to race on junk tracks or it's your only option, stay with bias slicks.

You also went the wrong way with your shocks and while I'm an advocate of running a good double adjustable shocks, they are not a deal breaker at your power level IF you put the time into setting up the chassis/suspension.

Years ago, a friend out of Va that raced a Chevelle similar to mine with the same power running on Hoosier 30 x 9 radial slicks had 200 lbs. bolted in his trunk to get it to hook consistantly.

That said, I've been running radial slicks for 17 years, the first 9 were Hoosier 30/10.5 on my footbrake launched 3880 lb. Chevelle with 59% of it's weigh on the nose. Shocks were single adjustable Koni gas shocks and this car 60 footed a best of 1.28 on these tires with no weight in the trunk ever and I put 75-100 passes on each pair, aired to 21 lbs. before pulling them off and putting them on a 3100 lb. Camaro with less power that got another 75 passes out of them.

http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=5258

For the last 8 years, I've been running Hoosier 32/13.5 radial on my footbrake launched 3144 lb. Firebird, with a 4 link and DA Afco shocks and this car has 60 footed a best of 1.17 on these tires and I put 150 passes on each pair before swapping them out.

http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=5265

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

..

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

Thanks for your input Ed I appreciate it. But you have me a bit confused on what you said about my shock setting. I'll admit that I'm new to the whole adjustable shock deal and I'm learning as I go. My understanding was that if I wanted to soften the hit on the slick I should soften the shock. Is this incorrect? I had the shocks set to the tightest setting with the radials and a much higher launch rpm at Norwalk a few weeks ago and the car worked great. Then without changing anything I took the car to my local track and the car spun badly at the hit. Doing what I thought was correct I softened the shocks and took out 800 rpm from the launch and it was better but still spun. What am I missing? Am I going about it totally wrong?

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

Al, if your shocks are single adjustable, start with the rears set at full stiff and the front at full loose. if the car hooks then spins, start tightening up the front shocks. Your typical burnout should be no longer than 4 seconds, half that when it's HOT out and pay attention to the starting line condition, stage outside of the bald spots if possible.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

Ok, I'm seeing what your saying. I want to slow down the the front lifting up. I run Calvert 90/10 front shocks so there is no adjustability with those. I will look into getting a set of adjustable front shocks. And thru this thread, I have discovered I was doing too much of a burnout, so I'll make sure to not do that any longer. Thanks again.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

good luck and keep us updated on your progress.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

I run the Hoosier radial on my stocker which I also bracket race. I just got 210 passes to the cords on mine. If you have tread on them they should hook. They are not worn out till the tread is gone. That being said on a marginal track you can have problems. First walk the starting line to see if you can find a better spot to stage in. Then knock about 5 degrees of timing out of it and 2-3 lbs of air out of the tires and if you have weight you can try that too. Sometimes no matter how well you have your car set up you have to go to plan b

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

I have single adjustable shocks on the rear, and run them fully tight on a good track and loosen some on a marginal track.

My car has leaf-springs with Cal-Tracs, so I believe the softer shock setting enables the Cal-Trac bars to drive the rear downward more quickly, providing more bite. I don't know if this relates at all to how a coil spring car would work.

Re: How do i get a radial slick to hook on a marginal track
 

Tons of good info and insight guys...i appreciate all the help. Hopefully I can put it all to good use. Thanks to all. This picture is from last fall at my local track (the track im having all the issues at now) the radials had probably 35 passes on them and the weather was perfect and the track had plenty of bite. 1.43 60ft. tight setting on the shocks and 3600 rpm launch.
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...pszb3esciy.jpg