Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-69
 

Greetings

This is my first post on Classracer..someone on HAMB recommended I post here.

Im creating a spread sheet of the top Eliminator and stock classes winners of the NHRA titles from 61-68

Compiled from open source material, it'll eventually be posted on my web site. it'll feature hyper links to pics of cars , drivers etc on a web site.

Unfo there are gaps I cant fill in....and I want to make sure my facts are correct....thats where Class Racers comes in.

Could I ask members to review the table below and post any info they may have to fill in gaps?

Lets start with 1961 - NHRA

I appreciate any and all help.

Mal
Melbourne Australia


1961


Winternationals Pomona

Mr Stock Eliminator Dyno Don Nicholson defeated Frank Sanders (Chev) 61 White Chevy Impala 409 Dual Quad 13.59 @ 105.88

S/S Super Stock Eliminator Arnie Beswick 61 Pontiac Venture – Passionate Poncho 389 Dual Quad - Defeated who?

S/S Super Stock Frank Sanders defeated Don Nicholson (Chev) 61 Red Chevy Biscayne 348 Dual Quad 13.63 @ 105.26

S/SA Super Stock Auto Lloyd Cox 61 Pontiac Ventura 348 Tri Power - Defeated who?

A/S Stock Bill Patterson 60 Chevy Impala SS 348 Dual Quad 13.88 @ 103.44 - Defeated who?

Indy Nationals

Top Stock Eliminator Don Nicholson (DisQual) defeated Al Ekstrand (Dodge) 61 Chevy Impala 409 Dual Quad (DQ) Disqual

Optional Super Stock O/SS Hayden Proffitt defeated Dave Strickler (Chev) 61 Pontiac Catalina 421 Super Duty DQ 12.55 @ 110.29

Optional Super Stock Auto O/SSA Don Turner Ford Starliner 390 3x2V - Defeated who?

Super Stock Auto S/SA Carol Cox 61 Pontiac Ventura 389 Super Duty 3x2V 13.68 @ 106 - Defeated who?

Super Stock S/S Arnie Beswick (Disqual) defeated Mickey Thompson (Pontiac) Pontiac Ventura – Passionate Poncho 389 Super Duty 3x2V DQ

Stock/Auto A/SA Ray Christian defeated Bud Faubel 60 Plymouth Fury Long Ram 413 14.24 @ 98.9

Stock A/S Frank Dade 61 Dodge Long Ram 413 14.51 @ 101.25 - Defeated who?

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

I can hear the crickets chirping from 8000 miles away! :rolleyes:

Ah well....I guess John Force is more interesting...:p

I'll be posting up 62 and 63 in a few hours....GMs finest hours.....;)

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

Bit of a Chevy party in 62....

Still keen to hear of any corrections.

https://wordpress.com/stats/day/skun....wordpress.com

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

Welcome here Rat Patrol. Good to see new guy here, specially from way down under. Lots of very good & knowledgable guys here ,but what I found is guys visit here on occassion,. so give them time. The person that would of gone one on one with you on this project, Paul Ceasrine, unfortunately passed away recently. He was the most knowledgeable person I knew on stats etc on thi8s stuff. He was instrumental in helping me finding the history on my car, & also turned my thread into prolly the most visited one on the internet today. Well over 1,000,000 visits.

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...13002&page=404

also:

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...n+speed&page=7

Good luck on your project, & remember be patient

liteweight

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

You should also post this up on the Stock and Super Stock topic on here.


Tons of wisdom and memories over there.


Welcome in Rat Patrol !

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

Thanks for the welcome...and I appreciate the interest and advice

I'm going to have to go over those threads carefully liteweight, I may need somebpic links for my 68 spread sheet.

For what its worth...I started this project because a couple of Chevy guys were talking loud about how Mopar could never beat Jenkins Chevy ii

I got on a mission...and at the same time reminded them about a guy named Jere Stahl. ;)

Anyhow...Im glad they baited me into it :)

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

Ah good mate, we have another Mopar dude in the ranks. Your more than welcome to use what you need from my thread. Unfortunately alot of the older pictures are being deleted as time goes on. You may want to also do some searching here

liteweight

BTW For those not aware Jere Stahl passed a couple weeks back.

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

Damn that is sad to hear. I know most of these guys had greatvlives doing what they loved - but there's very little said or written when they pass.....

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

Well it's 1964 - and Race Hemi time!


https://skunkwerkssuperstock.wordpre...olt-race-hemi/

65 - Spring nationals and FX class comes alive!
 

1965

https://skunkwerkssuperstock.wordpre...s-comes-alive/

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

RatPatrol,
I'm not a Mopar guru but could it be
60 383/330 long ram
61 383/330 tandem-8v (in line)
Not sure the 413 was in there yet but I could be wrong!
And those kinda slow MPH seem right for the 383 not 413?

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

Yep your correct DeuceCoupe - the 413 MW didn't show till Spring 62


This is exactly the sort of help I wanted - I am just using what the various sources are quoting - but even they aren't perfect.


Thanks again!

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

Hello,
I am researching a story from late 1964 about Haydon Proffitt shipping 2 Plymouth s/sers lightweight cars to Australia in nov. 1964. One was a 1963 tan plymouth and the other a blue 1964 savoy 4 speed with the aluminum fornt end. Any thoughts?

Thanks

George

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

Hi George - the car is well known down under..although in one of our more remote cities.

The owner is a member on here...best you pm him...

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=46857

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

.......

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

Hi members

1966 has now been published - enjoy the read.

Use the menu at the top of the page to move from year to year.

Click on the highlighted names in the results table for larger pics.

https://skunkwerkssuperstock.wordpre...-for-the-fans/

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

Been lookin back thru some of the threads in the nostalgia section.

I suppose that any undertaking of this size will likely produce a few mistakes.

Me being a Pontiac guy, I always look for references to the Pontiacs.

So, I discovered a couple of obvious mistakes.

(1) It is posted that the '66 GTO had a 400 cube engine. All Pontiac guys know that the 400 was not introduced until the '67 models. '66 was the last year for the 389.

"...PONTIAC – The 66 GTO came with a new 400 cui motor..."

(2) It is posted that the '58 Pontiac named Tokyo Rose won Stock at the '67 World Finals. But, the pic shown is of a '56 Chevy wagon with that name, which was driven by race winner George Cureton. Pics of the '58 Pontiac Tokyo Rose are below. I assume the mistake was made simply because the 2 cars had the same name.

I realize that VERY few people care about this. But, it's been my experience that usually when incorrect info is posted, on most car forums, some are QUICK to post corrections. So, all I'm doing is just posting corrections to a couple of mistakes I noticed.

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

1967 published.

https://skunkwerkssuperstock.wordpress.com/1967-2/

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

I hope others who were there (my only Sting-Ray in 1967 was a bicycle) will chime in with some edits & comments.


Super! Glad you put in the factoring stuff.
The 427 Medium Riser / Side Oiler is kinda complicated though (4bbl vs 8bbl, cold air vs flat hood, etc) so:

"The Ford 427 side oiler was re-factored to 460HP."

You could just say
"The Ford 427 dual quad side oiler was re-factored to about 460HP"

I added "about" because back then NHRA didnt publish a HP number, they just gave the Lb/HP for each body style, then you use the weight tables from today, hope they're the same, and back-calculate the HP that NHRA was factoring in 1967. So it's "about" 460 but not an exact science in this case.

I'm just starting to read!
Another great year of history.

Further down:
"67 Lightweight 427 Fairlane ran in SS/C, a class slower than the 66 cars."

Near as I can figure from lots of discussions, the glass hood 427-8v Fairlanes (66-67 basically twin cars) ran in SS/B=7.00 class.
That made sense, because all the glass hood cars had a 427-8v under the hood. But the glass hood cars were all 1966 cars. No flat hoods in 1966, and no glass (scoop) hoods in 1967. NHRA finally figured out some rules & let the 66-67 Fairlanes all run the same rules, considering them "twin: cars. And of course for the best Factory Support (MONEY), it was best to run the current-year car ie the 1967 Fairlane in the 1967 race year.

So where did those SS/C=7.70 glass hood Fairlanes come from?

Best I can figure they were 427-4v Fairlanes, WITH the glass hood (a combo that never left the factory, sort of like the glass hood 415hp low-compression Max Wedge). These SS/C=7.70 427-4v Fairlanes would have run SS/D=7.70 in 1968 but the combo disappeared from the NHRA books. I guess they just ran too good.

The 427 Fairlane story is a convoluted one indeed.

Continuing to race results:
Winter:
IIRC the 60 Pontiac G/SA Douglas & Forys was a 389/318-6v wagon, fits class almost exactly. Those tripower Pontiacs weren't all GTOs!

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

Yeah, that's where I copied this statement.

"...PONTIAC – The 66 GTO came with a new 400cui..."

I assume the "66" was supposed to be 67.

There were a few '66 & '67 GTO's that did pretty good.

The Knafel '66 "Trophy Car" apparently won a few. But most of those were probably in 1966. And the "Limelighter" '67 held the D/S class record in '68. But, that would obviously not be included in a '67 year recap. So, these 2 cars missed the target year 1967. But, although the Mopar, Chevy, & Ford cars dominated drag racing back then, there were always a few Pontiacs that did pretty good. But the best drivers went with teams that had factory support. The quickest Pontiacs sometimes had mostly just dealer support, such as Knafel Pontiac, Royal Pontiac, & a few others.

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

" 1968 – Battle of the sandbaggers! "

I have to laugh at this headline ! :D

Not much has changed. For the quick cars, if they ran all-out, every pass, their combo would soon have such a huge hp factor that it would not be competitive, in any heads-up run.

Back then, the only difference was that they were running against their class record, rather than the class index.

So, as much as Stock/SS racers hate to hear it, for legal cars, most Stock/SS racing uses bracket racing rules. The same-class heads-up runs are the exception. Just out of curiosity, I'd like to know the average percentage of total elimination runs which are heads-up, for class racers that run a full schedule.

Obviously, anyone in a stick class won't often have a heads-up. But, there are some of the quicker auto trans classes that have several entries, at some big races. I've read posts by LOTS of racers saying that the ONLY reason they run class instead of bracket is for the rare heads-up runs. Without those runs, many say they'd either go bracket racing or quit racing.

Then I suppose there are a few who race Stock, with a slow car that will barely run it's index, just because they have a good chance to beat any of the quick high dollar cars, at most any race.

So, just from my observation, the Stock racers are a very diverse group, having members with differing opinions & goals. Many are content with old-school carb equipped cars. But some insist on goin quick, with the latest, greatest FS cars. Then there are some who are always lookin the softest combo they can find, which they can live with.

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

(More comments!)

Continuing to race results:
Winter:
IIRC the 60 Pontiac G/SA Douglas & Forys was a 389/318-6v wagon, fits class almost exactly. Those tripower Pontiacs weren't all GTOs!

I have down that Cossey won A/S but will check again. Yup, my sheet is clearly showing Cossey, 12.35 at 113.92. OK I read the notes down below. Great story!

SPRING
IIRC the 62 421 SuperDuty was “rated” at 405hp. (As If). And never factored., as with so many 50s & early 60s engines.

INDY
Amazingly, the 396/375hp L78 was still running unfactored at 375hp that year. Near as I can Gonkulate, the L78 left the factory making about 415 gross hp in the Camaro/Chevelle, vs maybe 435hp in the Vette/Impala when it first came out in 1965 “rated” at 425hp. I think it was a little unfair of NHRA to factor the L78 up to 425hp in 1968 but I bet that 1965 big-car rating with the better exhaust iron was their basis.

NOTES:
Ed Terry’s car in the picture is a little dark but does look like a 66 from the trim – the text says both 66 and 67. Maybe somebody knows for sure. The 66 & 67 Fairlanes were twins except for trim, grille, taillights, etc.

Jenkins – SS/C win should be Spring not Winter?

Garey should be a 66 Olds W30, in SS/E=9.50 (Kempton won SS/EA). The 66 or 67 W30 would also run in B/S=9.50. However, per (Boyce, pg47) NHRA wouldn’t let the 66 W30 run in stock class after learning that so few were made (54 total) and all went to racers, none sold to normal people. Ok, well, that didn’t come out right. I’m not sure just when the 66 W30 got banished from stock class though since it’s still listed as a record holder in Sept 1967 B/S=9.50 class. Maybe NHRA let the record stand but the 66 W30 could only run in SS/E=9.50 after that.

BTW, curious why you’d say that “on paper” the 66 W30 would take a back seat to the 67 GTX? Both cars are near identical Lb/HP, the 66 W30 at W/P=9.59 and the 67 GTX at W/P=9.61, plus the W30 had cold air (OAI). I’d say on paper, I’d give the win to the W30. Of course, as time went by, the 440 got a lot more SuperStock parts (intakes & cams) so the W30 SuperStock wins became more rare.

Yes, as already noted, should say the 67 GTO came with a new 400, not 66 GTO. Also same comment, the GTO ran in SS/E=9.50 or B/S=9.50, not E/S.

“The 66 GTO came with a new 400cui motor and like the Olds, appeared outgunned in SS /E or E/Stock. Pontiac had less success in class or eliminations…”

I had GUESSED that Sargi won B/SA=9.50 with a 67 GTO but the sheet just says “Pontiac”, not very informative. The only other likely winner would be a 61 SuperDuty 389/368hp. Does anybody know?

Also, again I’m not sure why the 67 RamAir1 would look outclassed – when I Gonkulate the B/SA=9.50 class for 1967, the RamAir1 comes out very competitive with the other contenders – W30, 427 LTD, Fury 383/343, a super competitive class. Seems Wt/HP=9.50 was sort of the “Muscle Car” class back then.

“however a 58 , a 60 and a 62 model still featured in Stock class finals.”

Do you know what cars/classes those 58, 60, 62 Pontiacs won? I’m still guessing parts of 67 Winter because the sheets don’t give the car year!

NOTES: FORD:
The 66-67 Fairlanes were doggone near identical cars in weight – only taillights, headlights, side trim differed.
Classes were determined by the engine and the cold air hood.
SS/B=7.00 ran the cold air 427/425-8v engine, factored to about 460-465hp by NHRA.
SS/C=7.70 ran the cold air 427/410-4v engine, factored to about 435hp by NHRA. That combo disappeared for 1968 – none were built that way anyway.

That’s my CURRENT understanding of the Fairlane 427 saga.

MOPAR:
I didn’t know AA/S=7.00 class returned for 1967! What were the rules? Could you still run any intake, any cam as in 1965-66? I don’t see AA/S listed in any of the win or record sheets for 1967?


All in all a great read, thanks very much for writing this stuff up. I hope some of the folks who were there read it & we can get the history down. It will never be repeated!

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

Here is what I have for 1967 Winternationals.
As you can see there are guesses (shaded in pink)
For example in F/SA, the win sheet just says "Pontiac" so I guessed 3 possible combos. Anybody know?
Comments, corrections welcome!

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

I’ll work through all your comments in the next few days...there’s a bit to address! 😆

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

IIRC the 60 Pontiac G/SA Douglas & Forys was a 389/318-6v wagon, fits class almost exactly. Those tripower Pontiacs weren't all GTOs! - CHANGED

I have down that Cossey won A/S but will check again. Yup, my sheet is clearly showing Cossey, 12.35 at 113.92. OK I read the notes down below. Great story! - A/S in 66, B/S in 67, A/S in 68

SPRING
IIRC the 62 421 SuperDuty was “rated” at 405hp. (As If). And never factored., as with so many 50s & early 60s engines. - CORRECT - 410hp were the 13.5:1 63s

INDY
Amazingly, the 396/375hp L78 was still running unfactored at 375hp that year. Near as I can Gonkulate, the L78 left the factory making about 415 gross hp in the Camaro/Chevelle, vs maybe 435hp in the Vette/Impala when it first came out in 1965 “rated” at 425hp. I think it was a little unfair of NHRA to factor the L78 up to 425hp in 1968 but I bet that 1965 big-car rating with the better exhaust iron was their basis.

NOTES:
Ed Terry’s car in the picture is a little dark but does look like a 66 from the trim – the text says both 66 and 67. Maybe somebody knows for sure. The 66 & 67 Fairlanes were twins except for trim, grille, taillights, etc.-

PAUL CEASRINE DEBATES THIS ON THE 1966 SuperStock Nationals thread. He claims the 67s were heavier. Thus the difference in class.

Jenkins – SS/C win should be Spring not Winter? No - According to Ed Miller, Jenkins fouled out 1st round in class run offs and sold his motor to Vasquez to complete the SS/C class.

Garey should be a 66 Olds W30, in SS/E=9.50- It is captioned in that class.


BTW, curious why you’d say that “on paper” the 66 W30 would take a back seat to the 67 GTX? Both cars are near identical Lb/HP, the 66 W30 at W/P=9.59 and the 67 GTX at W/P=9.61, plus the W30 had cold air (OAI). I’d say on paper, I’d give the win to the W30. Of course, as time went by, the 440 got a lot more SuperStock parts (intakes & cams) so the W30 SuperStock wins became more rare.- Street reputation. But I believe I was thinking about the hemi GTX in SS/D.

Yes, as already noted, should say the 67 GTO came with a new 400, not 66 GTO. Also same comment, the GTO ran in SS/E=9.50 or B/S=9.50, not E/S.- FIXED

“The 66 GTO came with a new 400cui motor and like the Olds, appeared outgunned in SS /E or E/Stock. Pontiac had less success in class or eliminations…”

I had GUESSED that Sargi won B/SA=9.50 with a 67 GTO but the sheet just says “Pontiac”, not very informative. The only other likely winner would be a 61 SuperDuty 389/368hp. Does anybody know? - UNKNOWN

Also, again I’m not sure why the 67 RamAir1 would look outclassed – when I Gonkulate the B/SA=9.50 class for 1967, the RamAir1 comes out very competitive with the other contenders – W30, 427 LTD, Fury 383/343, a super competitive class. Seems Wt/HP=9.50 was sort of the “Muscle Car” class back then. - Again thinking hemi GTX

“however a 58 , a 60 and a 62 model still featured in Stock class finals.”

Do you know what cars/classes those 58, 60, 62 Pontiacs won? I’m still guessing parts of 67 Winter because the sheets don’t give the car year!

58 Jay Hamilton, 60 Douglas & Forys, 62 Ray McClelland

NOTES: FORD:
The 66-67 Fairlanes were doggone near identical cars in weight – only taillights, headlights, side trim differed.
Classes were determined by the engine and the cold air hood.
SS/B=7.00 ran the cold air 427/425-8v engine, factored to about 460-465hp by NHRA.
SS/C=7.70 ran the cold air 427/410-4v engine, factored to about 435hp by NHRA. That combo disappeared for 1968 – none were built that way anyway.

That’s my CURRENT understanding of the Fairlane 427 saga.

See my earlier comment re-Paul Ceasrine’s discussion

MOPAR:
I didn’t know AA/S=7.00 class returned for 1967! What were the rules? Could you still run any intake, any cam as in 1965-66? I don’t see AA/S listed in any of the win or record sheets for 1967?

One of the source texts. I agree this is puzzling, as both source books claim the class was held open...but Ive found no records of winners in either 66 or 67.

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

Re the Douglas Pontiac....318 or 348hp?

.I’m going to review 67 shortly...updated engine specs for the table.

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

Did you mean this thread?
"1967 Superstock Nationals"
https://classracer.com/classforum/sh...t=47314&page=3

Page 2:
(Paul)
I forgot to add in the Ford's.

* SS/B ..... Jerry Harvey ~ 1966 Fairlane 'Sedan' ~ 427/425 HP
* SS/B ..... John Downing ~ 1966 Fairlane 500 ~ 427/425 HP
* SS/B ..... Bill Ireland ~ 1966 Fairlane 500 ~ 427/425 HP
* SS/C ..... Harold Dutton ~ 1967 Fairlane 500 ~ 427/425 HP
* SS/C ..... Hubert Platt ~ 1967 Fairlane 500 ~ 427/425 HP
* SS/C ..... Ed Skelton ~ 1967 Fairlane 500 ~ 427/425 HP
* SS/C ..... Nate Cohen - Wally Lynn ~ 1967 Fairlane 500 ~ 427/425 HP

* SS/E ..... Ed Warren ~ {1967 Mustang GT ~ 390/320 HP}



I think if you read further down (I see we both did at one time!) Paul realizes further down the thread that Platt's SS/C was from 1968.
This is why I *always* use the class W/P number after the class. The class letter back then meant *nothing* as they changed every doggone year. Drove me nuts until I started adding the number eg
AA/S=7.00
SS/B=7.00 (for 1967)
SS/C=7.70 (for 1967)
SS/C=7.00 (for 1968)
etc



Page 3 Paul actually lists the car weights, which are identical for 1966-67.
AFAIK there were NO Lightweight Fairlanes.
There was a glass hood that took off 40 lb, but that was it.
A garden variety 390 Fairlane and a 427 "Lightweight" Fairlane weighed the same - except for the 40 lb glass hood.
Of course, these numbers are the published SHIPPING weights. Gutted, stripped, etc. Real cars in your driveway were about 200 lb heavier.

From Paul's Page 3:
1966 Ford Fairlane


Model .................... 427/410 HP ........ 427/410 HP ...... 427/425 HP
............................... Steel Hood ......... Glass Hood ....... Glass Hood

Sedan .................... #3280 lbs. .......... #3240 lbs. ......... #3260 lbs.

Hardtop.................. #3320 lbs. .......... #3280 lbs. .......... #3300 lbs.

500 Hardtop ......... #3400 lbs. ........... #3360 lbs. .......... #3380 lbs.
(End of Paul's pg3 quote)

The 66-67 Fairlane saga is really messy because of the glass hood, only factory on the 57 cars produced with it in 1966. FoMoCo made about 229 more 427 Fairlanes and 60 Comets in 1967 but all steel flat hoods. FoMoCo had some fast cars but they didnt build too many because they didnt want to embarrass Mopar or GM on the street. (That was a Joke, but at least half of it is true. To this day I dont think I've ever seen a REAL factory 427 Fairlane on the street, but seen plenty of factory Hemi's for sure).

Pretty much:
* If you see a Fairlane with a glass hood, it *probably* ran in the 7.00 class.
* If you see a 427 Fairlane with a steel hood, it probably ran in the 7.70 or 8.00 class.
One exception: In 1967 ONLY best I can figure, the glass hood 427-4v Fairlane ran in the SS/C=7.70 class. That combo was never factory and disappeared in 1968.

Of course TODAY, you can run whatever you want pretty much, all kinds of combos that never left the factory.

It's useful to get all this down.
I sure hope we are getting it right or one of those "old people" ( a goad) reads all this & corrects it.

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

Ah, ok.
I was looking in JUST WINTER 67.
B/SA Sargi and F/SA Scoville are still MYSTERY YEARS in there, cant find any info on those cars. Do you know the years or have a sheet that lists the car year? (mine just gave the make, no year of car)

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

I cant get a 348hp to fit class.
1960 Custom Safari wagon 4dr 6pass w hydramatic:
4458/318=14.02
I dont know if its a Catalina or Custom but wagon weights nearly the same.

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

DC - Ok, thx for the analysis on the LW Fairlanes ....I’ll have to re-write that section.

Re the Forys car - thx for the heads up...I’ll change it.

Re the lists - No year model on mine fir 67 Winters..

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

One thing Im not clear on - in 66 did these R code cars run in A/Stock or B/Stock with a steel hood?

Couple of points on. the Fairlanes -

The articles I have says
- there were 57 , (1966) and 229 1967
- there were 11 67 W code with scoops
- some delete ‘options’ like sound deadener

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/art...irlane-500-427

https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0111-10...e-lightweight/

Claims of 11 W Codes in this link-

http://www.forristalls.com/1967%2042..._Fairlane.html

This link confirms 67 W Codes.

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/art...lane-xl500-427

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

Good links! I hadnt seen those.
As far as running A/S=7.00 class in 1966, I think the car would have to run a steel hood to run stock class, and then as a 4bbl car, I get a W/P=8.29 which is not ideal for the class, but way too light for B/S=8.70 class. I'm not sure that combo would have been allowed to run in 1966 at a national NHRA meet, because in 1966, they were all built with glass hoods. Still, that 427-4v Medium Riser made a whole lot more than 410hp so locally would have no trouble winning A/S=7.00 class even with a mid-pack W/P=8.29 like that.

Remember that in 1966 ONLY, A/S cars got to run any cam, any intake, which is why the normally overrated 327/350hp L79 of Grump was so competitive - swap intakes & cams in that L79 & with fenderwell headers, you're in almost 500hp gross territory. The 427 Ford was similar. Its intake was pretty good already, but there was a better one (the sidewinder), and much hotter cams, and the engine would take the revs. So I can see why, IF ALLOWED TO RUN, the steel hood 4bbl Fairlane, unfactored at 410hp, would have had a field day in A/S=7.00 with 1966 rules, making well over 500hp gross.

Yes, I had down 20 W-codes for 1967, looks like 11 is a newer number. Some folks really nit-pick that stuff (11 vs 20) but for me it's just "a few".

I'm not so sure about the glass hoods though. I SEE all the glass hoods in the pictures, but almost everybody added a glass hood to run in SuperStock because once it was NHRA legal, the cold air gave the car a power edge. But its my understanding that all the 67 Fairlanes were factory with steel hoods. That may be what the Ed Terry SNAFU was about - Ford probably wrote a letter (delivered too late) saying "the glass hood was available" but as I've heard it they werent built that way.

In fact, the 1968 NHRA class guide lists ONLY 3 options to run:
* 4bbl, steel hood
* 8bbl, steel hood
* 8bbl, glass hood
No listing for a 4bbl glass hood in RACE YEAR 1968, but I've read guys say they ran a 4bbl glass hood car in Race Year 1967. This could have gone into early 1968 race year, again a story I'm still sorting out.

The last article gets pretty fast & loose with history, still a good story though.

Well, I'm glad a few of us still care!

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

I have pictures if Tom Schumacher running his W Code Hardtop with a steel hood in A/Stock....but that may have been 67.

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

YES, as I have it down, Schumacher ran a steel hood 4bbl hardtop in 1968 at W/P=8.29, in A/S=8.00 class.

In 1969 he went to a 2-door post car. That ran a flat hood and a 427-4bbl, and unfactored at 410hp, came in bang-on the B/S=8.00 class break for 1969. Quite a few wins for that car since at 410hp it was still way underrated, even though the generous rules of 1966 didnt apply any more.

I forgot it's just morning way over there where you are, right?
One of our cats already went to bed here.

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

Another good link to read on the 66-67 427-4v-Glass Hood Fairlane:

https://classracer.com/classforum/sh...ad.php?t=73873

Seems like the 4v + Glass Hood combo was:
1966: Ok wherever the Glass Hood was legal to run at all (maybe a function of the track, level of the meet eg a National, and maybe always ok in AHRA but maybe not in NHRA)

1967 to Mid-1968: OK in NHRA, putting the cars in the W/P=7.70 class

Mid-1968 to probably past 1988 (see other thread): Not legal in NHRA, and the records of those cars seem to vanish

After-1988-some-time until 2021+ : Legal per the current NHRA guides, like many other combos that were not actually built

That's how I read it, but it's a little fuzzy with changes over the years & different experiences of different cars. I wish all the old pictures had SINGLE QUAD or DUAL QUAD in big letters on the front fenders. That would look kinda boring though.

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

DC - Do you have any results lists for 69? I’m just starting to write up the page.

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

Yes, of various pedigree. I'll dig some out.
I have original Pomona sheets somewhere, have to dig em out.

I have a narrative from drag news for 69 Indy, no results sheets. Here are the files I built from that, including the usual few guesses in pink, but also a couple that are just plain listed wrong, which is also all too common.

For example C/SA=8.50 Morgan shows a GTO. No GTO ever ran up that high. Morgan had a 63 Max Wedge wagon.

D/S=9.00 lists Robertson in a 69 Buick but again no such combo. Could be a RamAir4 or a 67 Z28.

SuperStock narrative is really unusual. They list:
*Winner
*1st Alternate (I call runner up or RU)
*2nd Alternate (I call ALT)
I've never seen one written up like that, but there we are.
I was surprised to see a 64 LWG Galaxie in there as RU as late as 1969.
This was the last year the 64s could run in SS due to the 5-year rule, and the 63s were already gone from SS.

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

Thx DC thats a huge help - I’ll be posting a clipping from a mag.that will interest you later! 😉

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

They got the car down to high 11s with slicks.

Main thing is, they confirm SS/B with R code, SS/C with W Code

Mag is dated Sept 67.

Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68
 

Since I'm always lookin for the Pontiacs, I couldn't help but notice that the new RAIV powered Pontiacs won D/S & D/SA. :cool:

Rod Kister had won the Stock points championship in '68, with his big '60 Pontiac rec holder, also named "Big Iron". Then the '69 Judge was followed by a '70 Judge Big Iron.

Not familiar with the other driver's name.

John Thropp ran at least 2 different '57 Pontiac bodies.