Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

I'm installing the roll bar in an a-body mopar and would like to run some bars to the front frame so I don't have the "Flexable Flier" . I need to know what is acceptable, so if anyone has done this, how did you run them? I'll be going to the next divisional race to view what's there.
Mike

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

Tubing thru the firewall tying the cage to the front frame is acceptable in Stock .
To make it effective , you need to install a roll cage , not a roll bar .
I try to pass thru the firewall as high as possible ,or practical .
Try to tie the upper inner fender to the bar before angling down to the frame .
Mopars and other unibody cars will need a reinforcement plate welded to the frame rail attachment point for strength .

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

Does it have to be one side or the other or can it cut through the inner fender? I want to tie into the shock brace then down to frame. Yes I'm doing the cage, sorta, roll bar was just a general term.
Mike

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

On Mopars ,AMC's and Fords It is somewhat easier to do it with two separate tubes to the shock tower ,although I have not had any issues with doing it the way you are describing. .....I've done a few AMC'S that way.
The fragility of A body Mopar's in particular is one reason the change was made to allow the front bars , although more for the protection of the driver .
I've had to straighten a few frames on cars that were bent from wheelstands before doing a new cage and front bars

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

When I built my 74 Cuda, I run bars thru the firewall. They went over the shock tower, then turned down to the front sub. Made a plate to weld over the firewall hole and then weld the shock tower to the front bar. We also weld the main hoop to the door post, close as I could get to the latch assembly. After some friends drove the car, they both made comments, about how solid it felt. I drove a buddies SS/JA 68 Dart and had a blast doing so but, I understood what they were telling me afterwards.

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

Exactly why I'm doing this, designed to be driven on a flat road, no wheel stands and twisting, thin metal attached whith a few spot welds. Thanks

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

I'm planing a knee bar to tie into the door pillars too then off that to the front frame. Thanks for the help and suggestions everyone.
Mike

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

2016 rule book prohibits braces from extending in front of the firewall for roll bar in stock. Do they allow them in stock if a cage is installed? Doing an older B-body with a cage now...just wondering.

Phil Vos

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

Hi,

This is a quote from the 2016 NHRA Rules Book regarding roll bars in Stock.....



ROLL BARS
Mandatory in AA/S through M/S, AA/SA through M/SA, FS/A
through FS/L, in all convertibles and in any car running 11.49 or
quicker, permitted in slower cars. Front braces may not extend in
front of firewall. Six-point attachments permitted. Roll cage
mandatory in any car running 9.99 or quicker, permitted in slower
vehicles. See General Regulations 4:10, 4:11, 6:3.


It might get through tech but if called on it I think that the Rule Book would prevail....

Just my thoughts because I wouldn't want to give bad info that might get the guy tossed..

bob

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

I guess we need to know what they mean by "front braces". Is the "roll cage" just permitted in the driver compartment on 9.99 and quicker with no bars going to the front rails? Very hard to interpret how it's worded. The cars are faster now and the rules are still in the 60's it seems. Without some form of "bracing" some of these unibody cars are dangerously coming close to breaking apart within a year.

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

Hi,

The rule had always been..........

Nothing through the firewall......

I don't think that it would change because a cage was the car.....

A K/SA can run a cage if desired......

Just making Stock into Super Stock and Super Stock into Comp....

Bob

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

Guys that was amended 10/26/15 to section 10A, section 7 page 23 It is legal to run the bars thru the firewall on the inside or over the top of the inner fender .
However section 4 above it says its not , it has been legal since the start of this season. ....You know NHRA never makes mistakes in the rule book !
I double checked this with Dave Ley before I did any.

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

Tom, I looked at the published amendments from mid-2015 and all the publications since then and do not find what you are talking about. In fact, the 10/26/15 amendments are still on the NHRARacer.com site and I do not see that in the document there either.

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

Here it is

SECTION 10A: STOCK CARS, BODY:7, FIREWALL (Page 10) (10/26/2015) Alterations prohibited unless expressly permitted in this section. Firewall coverings prohibited. Where heater/air conditioning units have been removed, area must be covered with minimum .024- inch steel or .032-inch aluminum, including rear hood seal/flange, as on GM A-body. Minor firewall modifications permitted to C5 and C6 Corvettes for transmission installation. Roll cage tubing may run across top or side of inner fender well/strut tower and attach to frame horn. See General Regulations 7:4.

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

Ahhh! I was stopping at the Roll Bar Section; did not read the Firewall Section. I stand corrected.

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

Anyone want to guess why that rule was changed, and who for?

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

Your Monte Carlo? lol

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

safety for the most part, that image of the duster/demon crash a few years back comes to mind...every bit of cage helps....and lets face it a lot of the race cars are getting a little long in the tooth and can use the additional stiffness, even the lowly Gremlin was slowly twisting itself to the point of concern before its full cage....(pre-this rule, not through firewall)

Just about all of the unibody cars would benefit some more than others. How much it could help ET would be an interesting study.

Eric

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

Maybe some lead filled ones...

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

^^^^^^^^^^
THIS!:)

Rick Thomason
GTOMayhem

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

Eric, They didn't reverse this long standing rule for the Gremlins out there.
Trust me on this.

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

I give up Mark. Who did they change the rule for?

Are you against the change?

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

"FIREWALL
"Alterations prohibited unless expressly permitted in this section. Firewall coverings prohibited.Where heater/air conditioning units have been removed, area must be covered with minimum .024-inch steel or .032- inch aluminum, including rear hood seal/flange, as on GM A-body. Minor firewall modifications permitted to C5 and C6 Corvettes for transmission installation. Roll cage tubing may run across top or side of inner fender well/strut tower and attach to frame horn. "

The last sentence has never been made clear (at least not to my knowledge). Does it apply to the corvettes or all stocker?

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

It applies to all Stockers.

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

Thanks

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

Got me curious too. If you can't say it on here, send me a pm, I won't tell.

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

Does anyone have this in writing from NHRA? IF so, could you please share the documentation? It would surely help provide some clarity and that in itself would be cool.

Thanks in advance.

Dissident

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

Guys,
Lately we've had a bunch of 8 second "Stockers", along with factory involvement.
Coincidence? Don't believe in them when it comes to NHRA.

Mikey, No , I'm not against this new ruling. If one feels they need a full cage , with front braces in their 12.85 M/SA car, have at it.
But don't make it mandatory , when you've got 11.50 bracket bombers out there with no bar at all.
That's a subject for a different thread though, isn't it?

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

Marky,
It's not mandatory.

I believe after Ken Etters and Paulas accidents both of which resulted in significant injuries nhra correctly changed this rule.

It allows those racers who wish to add another level of safety to their cars to do so.

I've had my issues with nhra but I believe they got it right here.

Not all rule changes are part of a conspiracy to benefit the new cars.

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

Mike -
I agree with you. I have always thought they should have allowed it. I know the bars in the engine compartment can detract from the "stock" look, but their function is too valuable to worry about that.


Dwight

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

I have seen some of the Super Stock Hemi cars have the bars on the inside of the inner fenderwells. That is probably how I would do it.

Re: Tube bars out to front frame on a mopar?
 

Inside, that's the way I'm doing it.