The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

From Drag Illustrated.

http://www.dragillustrated-digital.c...110?pg=88#pg88

Page 88-99.

Discuss among yourself.

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

Good read!

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

Sad but true. I remember a time when there was 6 NHRA tracks with in 4 hours from where I lived and they ran all sportsman classes every weekend. There were even a couple of Ihra tracks close that ran classes. What seems to have happened is the tracks run the weekly bracket programs and anyone can race. Few rules and expenses. When the tracks stopped running classes it seems like a natural evolution especially in these hard times races went to what paid and they could afford. The pride money at a lot of local tracks rivals what winning a sanctioned event would pay without the travel, expenses and the rules

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

Nothing in that article related to Stock and Super Stock racing except for Mike Beard talking about how he pretty much quit racing NHRA and IHRA in order to go bracket racing. Didn't whet my interest at all. Jim

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Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

I couldn't agree with you more, Jim.

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

My questions:

Is there really any way to drive the cost of class racing(Stock, Super Stock, Comp) down?

Is there a way to make it more accessible locally?
For me, we had once a year Stock/Super Stock combo races at our local tracks(Prescott and Centerville) that always peaked my interest when I was young. The rest was nurtured at NHRA events.

How do entry level cost compare to what we had ten years ago?

Will we ever be able to shorten our divisional races into one or two day events to make it easier for people to enter these events?

When was the last big money class race(Stock, Super Stock, Comp) that we've seen and where are the sponsors to make something like that happen now?
I'm assuming if the location was right, you could get lots of Stockers and Super Stockers in the same place for a big money purse like some of these bracket races.

What can we as a group(racers, fans, and fut racers) that care about the future of class racing do to make things better?

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

I see their points on the NHRA class racing vs. bracket racing.

I have noticed more of the big buck bracket races popping up in KY.

I still like my Stockers, but I can see where running a separate bracket race every day could be more appealing than one race for the whole weekend and if you go out 1st rd., then there is no 2nd chance.

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

My questions:

Is there really any way to drive the cost of class racing(Stock, Super Stock, Comp) down?
* Allow Pump Gas to be used or mixed with Race Gas
* Safety Harnesses Certify for 5 years instead of 2 years.
* Helmets extend all 5 years helmets for 8 years

Is there a way to make it more accessible locally?
For me, we had once a year Stock/Super Stock combo races at our local tracks(Prescott and Centerville) that always peaked my interest when I was young. The rest was nurtured at NHRA events.
*Advertising locally and far enough into the rural areas.

How do entry level cost compare to what we had ten years ago?
* About the same for the times

Will we ever be able to shorten our divisional races into one or two day events to make it easier for people to enter these events?
* Love to see a 3 Race Weekend

When was the last big money class race(Stock, Super Stock, Comp) that we've seen and where are the sponsors to make something like that happen now?
* Before they treated the Sportsman Classes as Amateur Racers!

I'm assuming if the location was right, you could get lots of Stockers and Super Stockers in the same place for a big money purse like some of these bracket races.
* Invite none industry vendors to help sponsor racing!

What can we as a group(racers, fans, and fut racers) that care about the future of class racing do to make things better?
* You just started it .. ;-)
!

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

I've always felt that for the majority of Class racers, National Events are a waste of time and especially, money. We are treated (as someone above said) like amateurs (I might even say bracket racers) and our actual participation in the event is so limited that it's like we aren't even there. I personally don't enjoy them as much as a Divisional Event, because we are nothing but "filler" that appears to do little more than annoy NHRA. I would honestly like a more organized and extensive Divisional and National Open schedule and just be eliminated from participation in National Events. Also continue the recent practice of having multiple races within a given weekend, encourage the setting of National Records again, by awarding Divisional points for setting them and ban cheaters for life when they are caught. We have to accept that we just don't mean anything to NHRA and they are slowly doing what they can to eliminate Class legal cars from competition. When Super Street gets better parking spots at an event than Stock and Super Stock, you don't have to be a genius to see that our time is past.

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

You guys crack me up. Michael Beard put his nuts on the line for a Big$$$ Stk/SS race and gets hardly no participation, he busts his butt getting sponsors to support his race but the racers stay home....What can we do ? Absolutely NOTHING. ...Too many agendas .....

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

Dan, Just an FYI : Helmets are good for 12 years. Check the rulebook !

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

I really enjoyed the Class Nationals last year.
The C.I.C. race was fun.

Too bad the low attendance will probably kill any future chances of another event. :(

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

If I remember right Michaels 2nd annual class national race had some scheduling conflicts with other races and was right in the meat of the schedule in the northern divisions. All events are subject to low car counts when they have several scheduling conflicts. I would bet that if Mike had another race and it was during the time of the year that there were no other races then the car count would be back where they were at the inaugural event. A big thanks to Michael for putting on those 2 events even though they were to far away for me to attend.

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

Michael isn't the only one who has tried a S/SS race and didn't get any support. Back in 2011(?) they had a $10,000 to win S/SS race right in the middle of Div. 1 and hardly anyone showed up. I think most NHRA S/SS racers would rather run for a wally and picture in drag review then win any real money.
JIm Wahl is correct in saying people should better support their local S/SS associations.................oh wait...you can't win a wally......oh well.

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

If you read the entire article, I think it lays out a pretty good description of the state of sportsman racing. If you don't like it because you think it doesn't address Stock and Super Stock, you haven't read it. You can snub your nose at bracket racing all you want, but there was a time when "real racers" snubbed their noses at Stockers.

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

Thanks, MJ. I quit banging my head against the wall about it. I did my job, and you did yours (the racers and sponsors that supported it). Thank you!

There are always conflicts. Everyone liked the *idea* of the race, as long as it was convenient for them. It wasn't important enough for people to make a *priority*. The car count at the inaugural event barely put us at break even, despite two years worth of work and massive support from sponsors. So no, never again. I appreciate all of the fans, racers, and sponsors who supported us. We sure tried.


The article is most certainly relevant to S/SS racers. Expenses, time, travel, participation, exposure, and contingency/sponsorship are all extraordinarily important to all kinds of racing. The words Stock or Super Stock do not have to be explicitly used. But if people don't want to read it or take anything away from it, that's perfectly fine, too.

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

Adriel, I will give you my opinion.

1. Is there really any way to drive the cost of class racing(Stock, Super Stock, Comp) down?
** The increase of technology is the number one reason that building a class car is so expensive. Limiting the use of technology is one way to reduce costs. There are lots of ways to address this.
** Changing attitudes about what defines a race car will help. There are Stock & Super Stock combinations that can be competitive that can be built without having to incorporate $1200 pistons, $800 rods, $4000 transmissions, etc. You might not be a top sixteen qualifier, but you can win if you can drive.
** Reduce divisional races to two days and most national races to three days.

2. Is there a way to make it more accessible locally?
For me, we had once a year Stock/Super Stock combo races at our local tracks(Prescott and Centerville) that always peaked my interest when I was young. The rest was nurtured at NHRA events.
** Promotion and get the too-good-to-race-at-local-races guys to load their car up and show up.

3. How do entry level cost compare to what we had ten years ago?
** Ten years has not changed much. Inflation has taken its toll.
** The FS classes offer some creative combinations for SS that will be less than building traditional cars. Seems everybody wants a fast car (like low 9 sec/high 8 sec) and the traditional SS cars that will do that are horribly expensive to build.
** The class guide is filled with competitive Stock cars that could be built for less than $10-15K, but they will not be 10 sec cars. (Or 11 sec mostly)

4. Will we ever be able to shorten our divisional races into one or two day events to make it easier for people to enter these events?
** When I started racing, all divisional races were Sat-Sun events. It could be done again.

5. When was the last big money class race(Stock, Super Stock, Comp) that we've seen and where are the sponsors to make something like that happen now?
** Class Nationals.

6. I'm assuming if the location was right, you could get lots of Stockers and Super Stockers in the same place for a big money purse like some of these bracket races.
** Not until they really want to race and not be treated like prima donas.

7. What can we as a group(racers, fans, and fut racers) that care about the future of class racing do to make things better?
** Quit the squabbling and realize that somebody needs to do something and be willing to participate.

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

Let me first say that I enjoy Stock/SS racing but I bracket race far more often. With that said, as far as lowering the expenses in Stock is out of the picture now. There are too many professional engine builders involved, the back yard engine builder is gone mostly. So the money gets spent which helps the economy.
The other part is a CIC race. Why participate if your combo has been factored to the bone while there are combos that are under factored by 20 to 30 HP being conservative.
The other part, there isn't an NHRA track within 300 miles from here. Nice job NHRA on losing all of South Florida tracks other then the one they own!

Casey Miles
248H Stock

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

Here's my 2cents for what it's worth....

It's very hard to justify spending $500-$800 to go to an Ihra/nhra race to win what you can win at a local track running Pro/MoD or even Street.

Also if you wanna go racing cheap build an oddball slow stocker..

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that at 35years old I might be the youngest or close to it to fund my own operation without any help from anyone simply because I love stock racing. I started with a 2K personal loan to buy my car and just put a little money here and there into my car to make it what it is today. No go fast parts. Just junkyard parts and lots of test and tunes.

No young person is going to do that these days.

I can't tell you guys how many times I waited on friday to cash my pay check just to spend it getting my face kicked in at a divisional or national. Try to sell that to someone young and new getting into this sport..

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

Maybe it doesn't have to be a million dollar race as evidenced by the Midwest Class Racer Stk/SS Combo race in Earlville, Iowa ten days ago. 94 cars!

Here's the formula: Both a Saturday AND a Sunday Race with $100 entry per day AND a FUN Time!

Payout: $2,000/$1,000/$500 etc. INCLUDING 2nd rd loser money of $75.

There are 8 race weekends in the season so there's still time to participate:

Earlville, IA on Sept 3/4
Sioux Falls, SD on Sept 17/18 over $20k total Make A Wish Race
Eau Claire, WI on Sept 24/25
Kearney, NE on Oct 1/2

Support them and it Grows - Stay at home AND....

Al Corda

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

Mike Beard
Your Class Nationals was the best race I have been to.
Sponsored the Pure Stock Challenge.
Despite the crazy grief from those that disliked my advocacy.
Until last year drove my car to the track for years and then set up to race.

Think 12 cars competed and put out a good bit of money.
Still a good turn out and made several new friends.
Yet my company did not get a bit of recognition other than from you.
DanSources is an IT & Technical Staffing and Consulting company.
Not your average Contingency fundee!
Would I do it again to help the cause?....YES !

Next year was a bit different.
Committed to the IHRA ProAm at Empire that same weekend.
Heavy investment in a trailer and setting up the wagon to go tow to races.
The year before cost me a $1100 to haul a broken car 200 miles.

I do feel bad not supporting you the next year.
20/20 hindsight...I should have. Could have made a difference.
It was a missed opportunity promoting Pure Stock that was getting a some traction.

Wish there was a Crate Motor and GT Advocate out there too.
Sometimes they are known as Community Organizers ! :eek:

D

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

I haven't raced for many years, but worked and spent as much as it took to "run with the crowd" as we liked to say back then, and it paid off.

What I don't understand about today's racing;

1) The excessive money spent on race rigs.
2) The excessive money spent on race car "bling".
3) Doesn't anyone do anything themselves anymore?
4) The racers themselves changed the rule book, not the NHRA, and it has cost them.
5) The racers showing up Wednesday for a divisional race. For a good pit spot?
6) A divisional race should be two days not three.

Please enlighten me.

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

Frank
1-Its who got the bigger one
2-Those who have the MONEY
3-Those with MONEY don't
4- unknown
5- most of the racers today are old like us, retired and have nothing else to do. Look in the staging lanes, mostly gray!!!!
6- the more car that NHRA adds to the list, the longer it takes. The old days we ran two days Friday and Saturday with the pros, remember?
Just my two cents.

Bob Lasko
Super Stock SS/CS

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

I'm with you on this Frank

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

Hey guys, the bashing of our beloved sport is getting old....
And enough with the constant ranting over the payouts.
Sub-Single digit percentages of class racers do this for any hope of payout. Literally only a few individuals.

Yes, we want the wally, yes we want the prestige, yes we want the satisfaction of winning in this class. Your damm right we'd rather race at an NHRA national event then some local bracket race, regardless of the payout.

You can go on and on about the big money bracket races. Fine, go ahead get your generic classless bracket car and run against those boys in the high dollar bracket races. Good luck with that. I'm sure its a great plan to make money for retirement. After all, you mention all the time about the big money bracket race payouts, so go ahead and start earning all that money. Let us all know how well that works out.

A great many of us wouldn't even bother to race if all we could do was bracket race generic cars.

Class racing is an entirely different breed and its never been about the money.

Can the never-been-class racers, class racer wannabees, and ex-racers living in an era long gone, please stop beating down what a lot of us are currently have a great time doing. Your on a public forum making our case look far worse than it is!! YOU DON'T SPEAK FOR ME.

I'm inclined to say, you know what guys, if you aren't currently racing in S/SS in NHRA competition, you don't really get to bash the current state of affairs.
Its not 1969, it wont ever be 1969 again, and you know what, that is fine with a great majority of us.

Now all that being said, I must admit, I tend to agree with statements about the amount of "bling", the folks who don't turn a single wrench on their combo just purchase everything, and the need to take several days vacation to attend a divisional race.

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

Wow, this thread has become exceptionally productive.



Or maybe not.



Not sure what people think they will gain by worrying about the racing operation of other people.



The biggest problem racing faces is racers. Apparently a lot of racers are dead set on being their own worst enemy.

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

The beauty of our class cars is that we can run both class racing and big bucks bracket racing if we want to ( non delay of course) :)

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

I suppose I see things different, but I think it's a good sign that some drag racers are willing to spend $ 100K to win $ 1K.

Much better than the alternative of them finding another type of motorsports to participate in...

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

I think that it is great that some racers can afford spend over a 1/2 million dollars in race cars and rigs. It helps the American economy. I only have a problem that we are paying more money on entry fees and getting less for our money. NHRA is not policing the cars the way that they should, such as HP factoring, as well as tear downs. I pay for membership to NHRA and I loose the right to listen to races, who in NHRA came up with that? It's OK to a point, but entry fees have increased and the payouts are the same as they were in 1969, a joke to what my local track pays $40 entry to win $800. Maybe a 45 car field. So when NHRA collects $170 from 90 + cars and only pays $1000 to $1500 to win, that's almost legal robbery. I know that I don't have to participate so I don't other then National events I can get into.
I enjoy stock, it kills me to see the category be run by cubic dollars. It's no longer what you can achieve with your own knowledge, talents and skills. Buy it, go fast.
At PBIR they have a road race course and the price of road race cars is absurd. They race for trophies, maybe the racers who just want trophies should race there.
BTW, my permanent number is a Bracket Number.

Casey Miles
248H Stock

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

My point is about the complaining. Class racing is the best, but don't complain about NHRA and it's entry fees and payouts if arrive in a 100k race rig,
My pet peeve is what stock eliminator became even before the FS cars. The camshaft duration rule change has had a monumental impact on cost.

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

I am with Kevin on this one. Well said Kevin. I spend what I am able on my racing. I am just a blue collar working man. I have a 100K big rig. I have a 40 ft trailer. I build my own engines, transmissions rear ends and do my own welding and fabricating. Racing is expensive and the only thing that limits me is how much money I can dedicate to that. I don't count on winnings to finance my racing. Being a working man I can not take days off to go sit at an event to try to get a premium pit space. I go I park and I race. I am one that would probably quit if I had to bracket race. I have always either raced super stock or modified. My car is purpose built for racing super stock and does not make a good bracket car. If I crashed my car or it somehow got destroyed I would probably mover over to Top Sportsman. The sanctioning bodies and the promoters need to do a better job to sell our product to the general public. In my opinion they do little to help themselves and expect the racers to bare the cost of putting on an event. I will keep class racing as long as I am able to.

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

I'm with you, Frank.
#4 - A lot of collusion from both sides. A classic case of not thinking things through; unintended consequences.
The valve spring rule was more destructive than the duration rule change.

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

Yup...had this conversation before!
Do not think the xHRA are going to change this without some thought.
D

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

Perhaps your own tech guys should do the same Dave. I was told at this past LODRS meet in Columbus by an NHRA tech official that a Snell 2010 was only good until 2017!

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

2016 NHRA Rulebook
Section 20, Page 44
Helmet expiration dates :


2005 expires 1/1/2017
2010 expires 1/1/2022
2015 expires 1/1/2027

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

It still amazes me that the same group of wash women non racers that have so much time to spend on this forum yet don't race
Yeah I have a nice rv .nice trailer .nice car .yes I have an engine builder. Transmission builder You no why? Because I CAN !! Me and the wife like nice things We work hard for what we have. Question answered. Yeah I want a Wally.

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

Wash women, this has come to name calling, who do you think you are Donald Trump?

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

Frank, knock off the politics, or this thread will be closed.

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

The only person your protecting is yourself. I would think that you would want the very best helmet money will buy. A closed head injury is not a pretty thing. I know from experience.

Re: The State Of Sportsman Racing - Interesting Read
 

I guess I hit a nerve Got a privete message to stop name calling..lol
To the offened wash woman facts is facts and that's the way I have always been
I answered the question you don't like my answer and opinion PUT IT OUT THERE
I haven't begun to insult Go do some laundry I will be racing the next 3 month not like you internet key strokers NEXT