Trustart Debate
 

Hello all, thought I would add this for the sake of discussion. First I'll introduce myself as a longtime reader on this forum who just recently registered. I do some announcing at Mission Raceway as well as racing two Summit classes (slow car in one, fast in the other). I've found this forum to be a great help in learning the ins and outs of Class racing especially in my early years of announcing before I started racing. I've come to really admire what you guys do and have a great amount of respect for it. For the record I would view the introduction of Trustart as a "correction" of the current system as apposed to a "evolvement" of it. Imagine you had a clean slate. You are in the process of inventing handicap drag racing. All other decisions have been made and the only thing left to decide is what to do in the case of two red lights. Again a COMPLETELY clean slate, no history (ie: this is way we've always done it) and no limitations of a timing system that was designed for Heads Up starts. Would the current system even be considered?

Re: Trustart Debate
 

Go to the search bar and type in tru start. You will get such an education on what people in here feel about it and then get crucified for bringing the taboo subject up again.

Re: Trustart Debate
 

...

Re: Trustart Debate
 

good one Bob .

Re: Trustart Debate
 

OK let's start from scratch. AMC cars should be given a mulligan on red lights since there's so few of them and they don't have the advantage of a million superseded parts.
Who's next.

Re: Trustart Debate
 

Can we please put this to rest already???

Re: Trustart Debate
 

Totally agree.

Re: Trustart Debate
 

Welcome to the forum, John.
Good question.
It's hard to even imagine the system we have now being designed from scratch.
What we have now evolved over a period of about 60 years ...just like Stock Eliminator has "evolved" over a 45 year period.
I believe both will continue to do so..personal agendas aside.

Re: Trustart Debate
 

This may get me in trouble ---- (It's just a thought!)
Both cars cross center line, DQ
Both cars underweight, DQ
Both fail fuel DQ
and what ever else you can both get DQ'd for. It's not who crossed the farthest, who was lightest or who's fuel was closer. Add to the list if both cars red light, DQ.
Your normally go home when you red light so what's the problem with sending them both home?
(I guess that would end the race in a tie in a final)

Re: Trustart Debate
 

I'm all for both red lights go home.
And no 1st or worst.

Re: Trustart Debate
 

Why not "hide" the red lights until both cars have left?

Re: Trustart Debate
 

^This

Re: Trustart Debate
 

When is this nonsense going to end with a few trying to change the sport for the masses, if this format that has been used for many years and, is currently the format of choice by NHRA and its members does not suit your style of racing then GO PLAY SOMEWHERE ELSE. Why isn't there 4 outs in baseball, why don't they shorten the field for overweight people in soccer, maybe some would prefer no tackle football, please stop trying to change the sport that so many have come to enjoy. My 2 cents

Re: Trustart Debate
 

A timing system feature has been developed that does this.

Re: Trustart Debate
 

I will add that I am OK with it the way it is. We have been racing this way for many years. If it changes I will be OK with it too.

Re: Trustart Debate
 

Then that is all that really needs be done...not perfect, but better.

Re: Trustart Debate
 

Well, it does MORE than just that, but TruSTART hides the red lights until both cars have left and then only displays the worst one. ;)

Re: Trustart Debate
 

Re: Trustart Debate
 

Great post, Dale!!!

Re: Trustart Debate
 

I'm OK with that. BUT while we're "not changing the sport for the masses" why don't we go back to the REAL engine parts that came on a Stocker, 7"slicks and while we're at it, let's stop prepping the track! I hope that I don't get in trouble with Kenny but you guys are like a bunch of dam**d Democrats! You voted but it's not a real vote so it doesn't count.
I really don't care one way or the other which way this goes. It won't determine whether I race or not BUT if you look at it in the right perspective, once the first (slow) car turns on the red light, the race is over. In reality, the second (fast) car can take the green light and back up and not even make the run. This is the only situation in handicap racing (short of the first car hitting the guard rail or crossing the centerline before the second cars green light comes on, not likely) where the race is over immediately.
With that being said, I must say that I asked one of the best Racers that I know why every time he raced me, he had a terrible light. He told me that my car passing behind the tree distracted him. I'll give you that one but when was the last time that a Driver in a fast car worried about what the wind was doing or had to change his dial because the Track Crew just prepped he track in the middle of a round?

Re: Trustart Debate
 

I'm with Dale.

As I mentioned before, we could just start giving everybody a trophy.

Re: Trustart Debate
 

John, as you might have noticed this subject is some what like the US election, strong opinions on both sides and very entertaining. If asked, I would probably vote for tru start as someday it might put the results of a round in my favor but in all honesty, I can't remember losing a round where this would of had an effect.

Jim Mantle V/SA 6632

Re: Trustart Debate
 

I agree with Dale and Ed !

Re: Trustart Debate
 

Re: Trustart Debate
 

Alan ,You think it's bad now ?
Wait until Trustart comes to S/SS and a faster car loses on a double red light!

Re: Trustart Debate
 

Mark,
I honestly don't care at this point. Seriously. The red light thing is the least of the worries for class racing. I suppose it makes for a great distraction. Never mind everything else that is wrong, let's worry about a red light rule that has been the same for about 50 years. I'm over it. We can move on to the next whine fest.

Wind effects fast cars, so does track prep.

It's just a different set of drawbacks, depending on what choices you make. If you're making excuses, you'll never fix your program.

Re: Trustart Debate
 

Maybe it's a knee jerk reaction to change to truestart.

Re: Trustart Debate
 

Bill the 7" tire and non prep are safety issues not whining about someone getting an "unfair" advantage. Bill like you I had to worry about wind problems myself but most times I had the good fortune of making the right call. When I didn't I packed up and went home I didn't curse Mother Nature.

Re: Trustart Debate
 

Eddie, I think that you know me better than that. I'm not "cursing Mother Nature". I'm trying to make a point. There have been literally thousands of changes in just the last 10-20 years from the "liberalization" of our rules to the "liberalization" of our replacement parts acceptance.
And you had to bring up the 7" tire deal and track prep being a "safety issue" huh? Well, write this one down Sparky, in a year or two tops, all of these new 7 and 8 second FX and FXX cars will have 10.5 tires in the name of "safety"!

Re: Trustart Debate
 

At first they will get 10.5's but then start crying for the 10.5W, once again in the name of "safety."

Re: Trustart Debate
 

You guys are not suggesting that the fast guys changing tire rule is about personal agenda? If I remember SOME of the fast guys were crying that Tru Start was about slow cars personal agenda and to go away and quit whining. Never seen a single sided double edge sword. Amazing

Re: Trustart Debate
 

Bickering over such a minor deal with almost no real world impact, your agendas are showing, as a famous writer once said:"methinks you doth protest too much"

I would guess that people named Biondo, Seipel & Brockmeier will eventually get this accepted, no matter what anyone posts.

Re: Trustart Debate
 

I agree. Many of the slower class guys seem to think they have all the disadvantages. Faster cars just have a different set of issues. I most always leave first, and am not interested I changing over. I can not remember one round when it would have effected the outcome for me. It has been First or Worst since I started racing in the early 1960s. If I go red, I'm kicking myself, not hoping the other guy is redder. I'm not looking for a participant trophy.

Re: Trustart Debate
 

Its all about money with a move are they gonna change the amount of a dollar also?

Re: Trustart Debate
 

[QUOTE=Mickey Whaley;524453]This is funny

Re: Trustart Debate
 

I truly do not care which way it goes. I have to cut a light and run the number. Isn't that what we all have to do anyway? Being a faster car is not the ultimate advantage. In 2016, I think I left first 1 time. Being the second to leave takes serious concentration because of the slower car moving first. Track prep, wind, lanes, etc all have an effect on faster and slower cars.

Having grown up in this sport, we should be more concerned with the direction NHRA is going. Reduced car counts, less tech, terrible division directors, sub-par tracks, and so on should be what we are concerned about. Not whether or not Tru-Start is in effect or not. The same guys that win now, will win even if Tru-Start is in effect. Mainly because those guys are working on becoming better drivers year in and year out. Not asking for rules to be changed to accommodate their personal agenda.

Just my .02
Michael

Re: Trustart Debate
 

Now, I'll hoist a double-shot of Cuervo to that! good words. I've said enough about this subject.

Re: Trustart Debate
 

"I have to cut a light and run the number. Isn't that what we all have to do anyway?"

No, and that's the the point. Cutting a light and running the number are two fundamentals that every person involved in a handicapped race should be subjected to.

Re: Trustart Debate
 

I'm with alan

Re: Trustart Debate
 

If I have this correct only one of the timing systems have this feature. I do believe there is more than one timing system being used at NHRA member tracks. So how do you make a change like this across the board? Do you require all tracks to buy a new system if they don't already have the correct one? I thought I seen in one of the threads that the upgrade is $3000 if you have the right system.