SS round two
 

Does anyone have any information that relates to the first pairing of round 2?


Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed-----Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed
767 Tim Hall 75 Mike Cotten
E2 0.056 10.538 100.17 ****WINNER**** 0.038 9.838 128.21
SS/JA Dial: 11.30 (+/-): -0.762 SS/IA Dial: 9.83 (+/-): 0.008
Prior rounds:
E1 (J Faherty ) 0.030 10.338 0.038 (R McClanahan) 0.018 9.847 0.027
Qualified: #24 10.306 -0.694 #9 9.866 -0.834


Based on the posted data, it appears that this was the second instance at this event in which a dial-in slower than the class index was somehow entered into the clocks and the race run without anyone catching it! If a racer, through some slip-up of attention manages to put the wrong number on the window and accepts the mistake by staging, that's on him/her but when a dial-in slower than the index is allowed to influence the outcome of that pairing, a serious shortcoming in the system has been exposed.

Save Redman!!!

c

Re: SS round two
 

Hi all,

I posted this yesterday in a different thread.........................

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++



What happened on this pass?????????????????


Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed-----Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed
79 Nanette Stein 754 Lindy Lindholm
E1 ****WINNER**** 0.000 12.364 105.61 -0.028 11.388 115.00
O/SA Dial: 13.33 (+/-): -0.966 I/SA Dial: 11.38 (+/-):-008
Qualified: #33 12.382 -0.768 #1 11.274 -1.026

Stein nails the tree with a perfect light and then breaks out by almost a second. Wrong dial?
Lindholm runs 0.008 to his dial for the win.

She dialed in slower than the O/SA index and if she staged the car was out...He went red but I don't think that matters.....

Just trying to figure out what happened...

Anybody know??????

Thanx,
Bob

Re: SS round two
 

Some pertinent questions:

Is there anyone on the control deck in the tower that even knows what the E.T. indexes for O/SA and SS/JA are?

Is there a printed list of indexes hanging on the wall?

Does anyone in the tower at a national event understand how allowing competitors to dial over the index might impact the outcome of a pairing? An event? A season?

And, the most biggest question of all:

Does anyone care?

c

Re: SS round two
 

I saw that 11.30 dial for Hall, and wondered how, with an 11.00 index, that ever happened? Or, somebody in the tower can't read?

They do put your dial up before you stage, so you can see it yourself.
Guess more than one person messed up there.

Re: SS round two
 

Should I take the last one first? Nah

I haven't run in to this one personally, in my own dealings.

I would assume all dial-ins have to be entered manually. Would there then be a safeguard in the software that wouldn't allow over- the- index dials?

Would that be too much to expect for a professional motor sports organization, such as NHRA?

Answers not needed.

Re: SS round two
 

Tim did have 10.30 on his window. They put 11.30 as his dial in .

He missed it and I missed it.

I'll let him post what he was told but basically what we all know you buy it when you stage.

Re: SS round two
 

So was he a DQ for dialing over and what happened in the 1st round of stock????

I don't know how they can fix the Lindy and Nan race??????

Even if he red lighted the incorrect over index dial occurred first and Lindy should have gone into the next round...

Nan didn't do anything wrong she put the correct number on the car, which NHRA didn't enter correctly which she didn't catch before staging. The only thing that Nan did wrong was to trust that NHRA would do their job correctly.

Re: SS round two
 

No dq.
He lost because he broke out.

Re: SS round two
 

Final answer, they (NHRA) don't care.....

Re: SS round two
 

Alright..Let me try this..Correct me if I'm wrong.
Nanette gets an extra second head start.
Lindy is waiting to close up on her. It never happens ..He throws in the towel, thinking she's breaking out ,big time.
He breaks out anyway, coasting . He loses.
NHRA software allows this.
Doesn't seem right ..Re-run..(Ain't gonna happen..they're behind with the Pros..

Yeah? No?

Re: SS round two
 

OK.......

Thanks, Mike.....

I will wait until I find out how NHRA is going to fix the first round race in Stock.......

In SS the correct car won that round (by accident) because of the break out.....

But in Stock the wrong car won because of the dial over, she was first or worst...

NHRA never ceases to amaze me….
Bob

Re: SS round two
 

I know this is the thread for SS round but the question about what went wrong in stock was asked here.
1) If 1 car dialed slower then index on window then the driver should be dq'd and other car would be re-instated.
2) If car had correct dial under for class and scoreboard was wrong then the race winner is correct as winning car accepted wrong dial because other car red lighted.
The only way to know what was correct is by knowing what dial was written on window. Then the correct outcome of race can be determined.
Obviously the system does not have a fail safe for slower then index to show up on scoreboard. Its sad that it happened twice in 1 day, 1 event. Sounds like a human error in more then 1 way.

Re: SS round two
 

A good reason to legibly write your dial in on the window. I`ve used a dial in board velcroed to the window for years to avoid any issues.

Re: SS round two
 

Rule book doesn't address a 'dial-over' situation. Since both incorrect dials were caused by the tower I guess it is a valid race, the standard rules apply. So stock race result was decided by a foul and SS by breakout (worst). Seems NHRA should amend the rules to include a competitor posting a 'dial-over'.

Re: SS round two
 

Ya know, you're right! I just looked through a 2015 Rule Book and nowhere did it say that you HAVE to dial the index or below! It only says it's BASED on an index system and that you CAN dial below it. It doesn't say that you CAN'T dial above!

Re: SS round two
 

Soooooo, lets say he sees the mistake on the board on his way down track, slams on the brakes and runs 11.300. What happens then???? Would there be a rerun because someone in the tower screwed up his dial with an "illegal" dial? I would love to hear that answer!

Re: SS round two
 

That's what I was thinking! Shouldn't the dial in be blinking red if its above the class index????

Re: SS round two
 

I don't have a rule book to look at but I feel that you have to dial index or faster. As long as car was dialed correct you can run any ET that it takes to win the race. When car is dialed correct and scoreboard is wrong and driver stages car the outcome is the outcome. No reruns or do overs needed.

Re: SS round two
 

I wasn't there to witness event but I feel car WAS dialed correctly and tower inserted a wrong dial that became slower then index of that car. ALWAYS drivers responsibility to verify dial on scoreboard. If driver did dial over index that is something that needs to be addressed.

Re: SS round two
 

There is also another rule book that NHRA has....

It the competition rule book.....

Very hard to get a look at.....

But if NHRA is pressed they could come up chapter and verse regarding over index dial ins....

There is also an urban legend that a Super Stock racer came into his or her possession, a very long time ago, a copy of this competition rules book....

It's not the drivers responsibility to know what the index is of the car in the other lane or to check their dial in....

This reason that we have the NHRA is to make sure that the racing is conducted fairly..

If there are no rules we are back to street racing..

It looks like there should be a computer up date for the Compulink timing system, in order to prevent over index dials...

This can be done when the system is updated to include the TruStart system........

Just sayin'
Bob



PS:
Couldn't help myself....


PPS:
I also know that some racers would think it's OK to dial in over the index because it is only a bracket race........................

Re: SS round two
 

So what if you dial slower than your index, as long as the computer/tower people enter the published/proper index and let the race proceed as it should, I'm ok with it. Just don't be a doodle and Ph#*^ up.

Re: SS round two
 

Just go back to ET2 and it doesn't matter...............

Re: SS round two
 

This happened a long time ago [I guess I am old] But I think it was at Div race where in the third round someone noticed that the other car was dailed above the index and brought to the attention of a official where the driver was reinstated kind of like being lite at the scales but nothing was said about the 2 cars he had beat in the previous rounds. Not to knock anyone but if you run the class you should be class racer smart.
On another note was watching the Ihra race at Florida and they where running super rod [super gas] and the announcer said not to many dragsters in this class,even I know the driver has to be on the left side of the driveshaft. Tom

Re: SS round two
 

So now no tech, dial slower then index. I can see gutted interior, square tube frame, fiberglass panels running in stock as long as it has a 9 inch tire and a weight sticker. I agree Bracket II here we come.

Re: SS round two
 

On the funny side of dialing cars. Once at Pomona we ran class GT/CA. I was only .4 under index and I had to run Bud Pickens in his Camaro that was I think .8 under. So I dialed my .4 under for class and Bud caught it and wiped numbers off my window. I asked him what was wrong as we were running heads up for class. He stated he didn't trust tower and was afraid they might put dial in on scoreboards. True story around 1995.

Re: SS round two
 

Hackie,
If someone dialed over the index, it would probably show up on the dial-in board, as we saw this weekend .
The computer operator doesn't have to do anything if there's no dial under. It will default to the index anyway. At least it's supposed to.

Re: SS round two
 

I did have 10.30 on 3 windows and they put 11.30 on they score board and in the computer. I did not see it or I would have said something. I usually look but for some reason I did not. I went to the tower and talked to Mike Rice and he said it was an error and that there is supposed to be a red light flash on the computer if you try to dial over your index. Evidently the person who did this did not see the red light. My question then was why you should even be able to put in a dial over your index. I was then told that I accepted the number by staging. I new that I was going to be told that and I did agree, but it seems to me that all the things we do just to get to that point, the least they could do is get the dial right. I have been doing this for over 40 years and I just found another way to loose.

Re: SS round two
 

I am bad about checking the posted dial, actually only looked once last year and it was wrong. Competitor also saw it, and it got fixed. I agree they should be able to catch it, but unfortunately humans are involved. That's why they pass the buck back to us. Hate you lost that way. NHRA avoids reruns if at all possible-haven't seen or heard of one in years.

Re: SS round two
 

I have

Re: SS round two
 

Dumb me, I did not think the computer would accept a slower-than-the-index dial.

Re: SS round two
 

THAT'S FUNNY.. Sad,but funny.

Re: SS round two
 

I had a re-run at Indy points race, my competitor in B/SA dialed above the index and red lighted. We still had to race again, D-3 director said so and my guy red lighted again. Basis for the decision was all racers have to dial the index or quicker. Fact is if no dial in is on the window, the tower automatically put up the class index. Just like years ago, to be a class winner a racer had to run on or below the index to win class and put him in the "Show"

Re: SS round two
 

I had Donna (my wife) check to be sure it was correct. She always brought me into the water box. Plus, I always thought "what can I do if the dial is wrong, when I am strapped in".???...yell?

Re: SS round two
 

Yes but in showing the class you did you gained far more than you lost...

Re: SS round two
 

I got stung one time by a incorrect dial in in the computer. As others have said if you stage and run you have accepted the dial in for both cars. I will not pre stage until the dial ins are on the scoreboard. I check both just to make sure they are correct. It is seldom that there is an error. Good people working the computers in the tower. They deserve a thank you for a job well done.

Re: SS round two
 

Had one in about '98 at Sonoma national event. The second bulb on my side of the tree did not light. Went immediately to Lynwood D. in the tower. He and I walked out onto the track and he asked the starter if that was true. Starter (not Stewart) nodded "yes," and we re-ran the race.

c

Re: SS round two
 

Former Compulink operator here
he computer will accept the dial but will highlight and blink showing there is a problem. It should have been caught.

Re: SS round two
 

When I get an incorrect dial, I open the door and point down at the scoreboards. I suppose you could point at the dial-in on your window or something as well.

Re: SS round two
 

Does the index board that the driver sees blink???????????

If it only blinks in the tower that no help..........

Take the human out of the computer system by programing a fail safe into it........

Over index dial should be no display or blinking red anything to alert the driver of a problem...........

Maybe NHRA cutting back on the number of employees might have added to this problem?????

Just write some code and add it to the Compulink program....

Re: SS round two
 

It has to be very tough entering all the dial ins for a day of racing, and I've missed an incorrect dial posted on the scoreboard myself not paying attention to what was out there. I must say I am surprised the software allows you to dial over the index, I always thought it would only allow less, not more. Now we know better.