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-   -   Excessive braking (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=65263)

my69396 02-12-2017 11:57 PM

Excessive braking
 
I will look in my latest rule book but I thought stated tire smoke from excessive braking was like crossing the center line and reason for disqualification.

340Cuda 02-13-2017 10:18 AM

Re: Excessive braking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by my69396 (Post 526828)
I will look in my latest rule book but I thought stated tire smoke from excessive braking was like crossing the center line and reason for disqualification.

"Anytime it has been judged that excessive braking has resulted in loss of control that results in contact with the guardwall and/or light fixtures or crossing the center boundary lines, INCLUDING PAST THE FINISH LINE, the contestant will be disqualified."

I don't think tire smoke counts anymore.

Bill

MR DERBY CITY 02-13-2017 01:42 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
This doesn't concern the suits at NHRA until someone loses their life at the stripe. Someday a 8.50 second mustang will get all tangled up (thanks Mickey) with a poor ,defenseless FWD with no roll bar and that will be all she wrote. The suits will then look at each other in disbelief and wonder how the heck did this happen. My only hope is that the FWD racer is not Gary Hampton. I like that guy !!! Furthermore, if you think this will never happen...well....the CUBS did win the World Series........

Michael Beard 02-13-2017 03:02 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
While it was not a braking issue, I had a scare at a big money bracket event several years ago driving the Turismo stocker. First round, I drew a car that was close to Top Sportsman territory. Broke out .001, and next thing I know, he's sideways in my lane in front of me. Turns out he got into some of his own fluid. If he would've lost it at half track instead of the finish line, he would've gone THROUGH me. If I gave a d*mn about NHRA and ever raced the Turismo in Stock again, I would put a rollbar in it. The legitimacy of "factory" Stockers is a separate argument, but now that we have heavy 8-second rocket ships, all cars should have at least a roll bar.

Ed Fernandez 02-13-2017 04:16 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
The one thing I made clear to Eric when he bought the gremlin was that he put a 6 pt bar in the car since his daughter would be driving it. He did better and had a cage put in it.

Mark Yacavone 02-13-2017 04:17 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Beard (Post 526873)
If I gave a d*mn about NHRA and ever raced the Turismo in Stock again, I would put a rollbar in it. The legitimacy of "factory" Stockers is a separate argument, but now that we have heavy 8-second rocket ships, all cars should have at least a roll bar.

I appreciate the concern here, but I'd have to say ..No Way!

First we let the FX cars in, under dubious circumstances, then we have to change the rules for the slower cars, to accommodate them?

It's hard enough with a slower car to watch the faster car. They don't need any more disadvantages.

That being said, if you want to be all strapped in, with two year belts, for your own satisfaction, be my guest.

Michael Beard 02-13-2017 04:27 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
I specifically said "should have" as in my opinion, not "should be required to have", as in NHRA rule mandate. That being said, safety isn't a matter of "accommodating" anyone. (Actually, I thought NHRA's mantra was "Dedicated to Safety"...)

FWIW, I wear started wearing a -5 suit last year, even though I am not required to. (Well, not in NHRA bracket racing... NHRA, in their infinite wisdom, has different safety "standards" for the exact same car, dependent solely upon what decals are on the windshield. I wasn't aware that decals offered varying levels of protection... but that's yet another topic that's a different story.)

Mark Yacavone 02-13-2017 04:45 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Beard (Post 526900)
I specifically said "should have" as in my opinion, not "should be required to have", as in NHRA rule mandate. That being said, safety isn't a matter of "accommodating" anyone. (Actually, I thought NHRA's mantra was "Dedicated to Safety"...)

FWIW, I wear started wearing a -5 suit last year, even though I am not required to. (Well, not in NHRA bracket racing... NHRA, in their infinite wisdom, has different safety "standards" for the exact same car, dependent solely upon what decals are on the windshield. I wasn't aware that decals offered varying levels of protection... but that's yet another topic that's a different story.)

My mistake then, Michael. I thought you were advocating another rule change.

Ed Fernandez 02-13-2017 08:12 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone (Post 526898)
I appreciate the concern here, but I'd have to say ..No Way!

First we let the FX cars in, under dubious circumstances, then we have to change the rules for the slower cars, to accommodate them?

It's hard enough with a slower car to watch the faster car. They don't need any more disadvantages.

That being said, if you want to be all strapped in, with two year belts, for your own satisfaction, be my guest.

Mark, when I pulled the plug the FS cars ( they weren't even called that then) had a few cars going 9:50's. I still see Don Fezell going past me at 155 at Norwalk. Now 8's
are as common as flies on a horses patoowie. If YOU want to race with old belts and no roll bar/cage be my guest. I usually agree with you but this is one time we're on opposite sides of the fence. I still love ya though.

cmracing 02-13-2017 08:26 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
I have a full chrome moly cage in our 11.50 car that my son and wife drive. Can't have too much safety gear, only get one shot at this........

Mark Yacavone 02-13-2017 09:07 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez (Post 526919)
Mark, when I pulled the plug the FS cars ( they weren't even called that then) had a few cars going 9:50's. I still see Don Fezell going past me at 155 at Norwalk. Now 8's
are as common as flies on a horses patoowie. If YOU want to race with old belts and no roll bar/cage be my guest. I usually agree with you but this is one time we're on opposite sides of the fence. I still love ya though.

Eddie My Love, Ah, but this discussion wasn't about ¿Quién es más macho? ... or who's nuts, or who isn't .
My point was that I don't think a roll bar and 2 year belts should be a requirement in all Stockers. I'd rather see the low 9 and 8 second FX cars all put into Super Stock, where they belonged from day one.
I just hope that retired racers don't start lobbying for rule changes, either. ;-)

Ed Fernandez 02-13-2017 10:05 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone (Post 526930)
Eddie My Love, Ah, but this discussion wasn't about ¿Quién es más macho? ... or who's nuts, or who isn't .
My point was that I don't think a roll bar and 2 year belts should be a requirement in all Stockers. I'd rather see the low 9 and 8 second FX cars all put into Super Stock, where they belonged from day one.
I just hope that retired racers don't start lobbying for rule changes, either. ;-)

Markie, I've said all along those overpriced tin boxes belonged in SS right from the beginning.

RobbieRacer 02-13-2017 10:30 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
I will be putting a roll bar in my U/SA just for the peace of mind. Even at mid track those cars are going WAY faster than me. It could get UGLY fast. And I will be racing at some local events too. So....Better safe than sorry.

SStockDart 02-14-2017 12:31 AM

Re: Excessive braking
 
[QUOTE=Mark Yacavone;526930]Eddie My Love???

Geez Mark....1956 by the Teen Queens...Eddie my Love

Mark Yacavone 02-14-2017 12:58 AM

Re: Excessive braking
 
[QUOTE=SStockDart;526954]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone (Post 526930)
Eddie My Love???

Geez Mark....1956 by the Teen Queens...Eddie my Love

I knew that..Nostalgia is my business ...LOL

David Lee 02-14-2017 01:43 AM

Re: Excessive braking
 
with all of the talk about adding roll bars/cages to slower cars and now we can have bars that ties in the front rails. Would going to a 12 point be a good idea, or stick with the 8 point?

tpoh815 02-14-2017 06:45 AM

Re: Excessive braking
 
This thread turned into roll bars??

Michael Beard 02-14-2017 12:11 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tpoh815 (Post 526963)
This thread turned into roll bars??

Excessive braking can and has led to cars hitting the wall or other cars.

Last year, I saw one moron literally blow out both front tires. He was lucky to not hit anything.

tim worner 02-14-2017 12:45 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
I guess I'm another moron because I blew out both front tires at No Problem 1 year just after I put on new aftermarket front brakes. I later install a pro valve and only blew out one tire the next time.

Jim Hanig 02-14-2017 01:24 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
You would not have this if they enforced the rules. Smoke the ft tires at the line your out.!!! Simple.

Randall Klein 02-14-2017 01:51 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
That takes an official at the line, ain't happening. Tower call? Oil, dust, which car, and then the fight began

Hacksaw 02-14-2017 02:41 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Randall Klein (Post 526994)
That takes an official at the line, ain't happening. Tower call? Oil, dust, which car, and then the fight began

There is almost always an official at or past the finish line. They are watching for drivers :- taking down window nets, loosening belts, removing helmets and such before you reach the end of the track, you know safety issues. The trouble is it comes down to a Human making a judgement call. If a had a whisper or small puff of smoke come off one of my front tires and they came to my pit and said your Dnq'd for excessive braking, well it would not be a good ending and probably I would appear to be a bad sport. Sorry to say.

Lenny5160 02-14-2017 02:49 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Hanig (Post 526988)
You would not have this if they enforced the rules. Smoke the ft tires at the line your out.!!! Simple.

Which page is this rule on?

Hacksaw 02-14-2017 06:00 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Hanig (Post 526988)
You would not have this if they enforced the rules. Smoke the ft tires at the line your out.!!! Simple.

I think it was written excessive braking are grounds for Dsq. in the NHRA rule book. Can't find anything now.

Tom Meyer 02-14-2017 06:26 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
It's in the west coast rule book, Tom

Lenny5160 02-14-2017 06:32 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
Section 2, page 8 says:

Anytime it has been judged that excessive braking has resulted in loss of control that results in contact with the guardwall and/or light fixtures or crossing the center boundary lines, INCLUDING PAST THE FINISH LINE, the contestant will be disqualified.

Nothing about tire smoke being an automatic DQ, or even about excessive braking alone being grounds for a DQ.

Ron Ortiz 02-14-2017 06:56 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
Section 2, page 8 says:

Anytime it has been judged that excessive braking has resulted in loss of control that results in contact with the guardwall and/or light fixtures or crossing the center boundary lines, INCLUDING PAST THE FINISH LINE, the contestant will be disqualified.

What a joke. If you make contact with the guardrail, light fixtures or cross the center line you get DQ'd anyway. Doesn't matter what the cause was. They just added past the finish line.

They used to have a rule but that is gone now, many brake slammers just were told to take it easier and I do not recall any one getting DQ'd for it.

Of course this has nothing to do with safety.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA just a late decision

The Hawk 02-14-2017 07:42 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Meyer (Post 527028)
It's in the west coast rule book, Tom

I don't think so. The only racers I`ve had come by me with the front tires locked up and smoking like a freight train were from California. At least three different occasions and never even a warning.

Ed Fernandez 02-14-2017 08:24 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hacksaw (Post 526997)
There is almost always an official at or past the finish line. They are watching for drivers :- taking down window nets, loosening belts, removing helmets and such before you reach the end of the track, you know safety issues. The trouble is it comes down to a Human making a judgement call. If a had a whisper or small puff of smoke come off one of my front tires and they came to my pit and said your Dnq'd for excessive braking, well it would not be a good ending and probably I would appear to be a bad sport. Sorry to say.

I guess that's why they call you Hacksaw.

ALMACK 02-14-2017 09:51 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MR DERBY CITY (Post 526863)
This doesn't concern the suits at NHRA until someone loses their life at the stripe. Someday a 8.50 second mustang will get all tangled up (thanks Mickey) with a poor ,defenseless FWD with no roll bar and that will be all she wrote. The suits will then look at each other in disbelief and wonder how the heck did this happen. My only hope is that the FWD racer is not Gary Hampton. I like that guy !!! Furthermore, if you think this will never happen...well....the CUBS did win the World Series........

Those 8.50 second Stockers are part of the motivation for me to install a roll bar right now into my Q/SA Thunderbird.

I am only trapping 106 mph, but if I were to get rear ended by one of the 160 + mph missiles...

Alan Nyhus 02-14-2017 10:24 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...pszag0onjk.jpg

ALMACK 02-14-2017 10:27 PM

Re: Excessive braking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Nyhus (Post 527058)


You beat me to it !

I was looking for that exact pic :D


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