What Combo?????????????
 

Hi,

Does anybody know what combo this is??????????

K/SA Jim Hale, Van Buren AR, '66 Belvedere 11.642 12.65 -1.008

Thanx,
Bob

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

I believe 66 Wagon with 383 4 Brl.
I will check when I get back to track but
pretty sure I am correct.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

Thanks John

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

Bob, 383 ,with 45 horsepower off it.
That'll fix just about anything.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

looks like 426/365 down to 291 .smart man/soft combo. Why would anyone want to race anything but a Mopar.Same old Sh&t dinner from NHRA and we keep on eating. Rick I am wrong.thought it was a 65 wagon /383 325 down to 280 0r 285 with alum. head. Same meal just a different entrée.I stand corrected. Rick.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

WOW.....ALL I CAN SAY IS WOW...

750 CFM AFB
10.0 : 1 compression
203cc Intake runner


280HP with a stock head
285HP with an Edelbrock Aluminum Head


WOW...

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

I Think the AFB 0n 383/426 in 66 is around 600 CFM ( maybe a bit less than that) I own one and it is small.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

Jim Hale has proved time after time that.............................................. ........
Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill.....but it sure doesn't hurt to have 45 HP removed....LOL

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

That's a closed chamber head, small exhaust valve and about a 525 cfm AFB. I would guess a low lift cam, like to know what rpm he's turning too. Doesn't matter how much hp was taken off, other than what class he's running, 11.65 in a 4000 lb shoe box is doing real good.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

So my question is, how did he get the 45 hp off? Has he made any runs in the car before and been playing the AHFS game? If he hasn't I need to know who to send my letter to at NHRA.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

383/325/280 Blueprinted at close to 11.0:1 compression. AFB that will flow around 550 cfm. Choice of .431"/443" or .425"/.437" cam. Several heads to choose from and several intake manifolds. The 280 hp was assigned mid-year 2003, and I doubt that Mr. Hale had anything to do with that since he was still racing Hemis back then.

Incidentally, Thomas Auger has an I/SA '63 Dodge that is currently qualified at the Div 2 points meet at -.095 with basically the same engine. A bit less compression, a bit less camshaft, but very similar.

This is not a new hit, guys. You need to pay attention; the class guide is filled with treasures. Part of why I built my website was so racers could know their competition.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

Well,good for him for finding it in the guide can't fault him for that. But somebody got 45 hp off of it somewhere along the way. NHRA does this crap all the time takes way too much hp off a combo and then people go out and go way under. Like I said before...where do I send my letters?

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

How does this affect anybody unless you run K/SA?

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

:D LOL, Bob.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

This engine has some things working against it. The carb on my bench flows 566 CFM, the near 0 deck height and .020" gasket combined with a small block like stroke make any cam with even modest duration difficult to fit. Before the 383s were defactored there were not any single 4 barrel 383 Stockers out there with maybe a rare exception. The 383 is Mopar's most common engine, it's what the 350 is to Chevy. For many years a Mopar racer had to run a Hemi, a Max or 6 Pak car to be competitive with a big block, all expensive combos as well as the cars they came in, thankfully that has changed.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

Certainly would agree they needed some help.
Similar 389 / 400 Pontiacs are in the 325 - 330 range.
Of course, those who were around in the 60's already know and understand that.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

Couldn't agree with you more Paul. 280 may look low but the carb and limited cam selection definitely still hampers the 383

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

Wow! I just went to your website. That makes things much easier! Wish I would have seen it 6 months ago! Thanks.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

Back when the power rating for these 383 engines was set (2003) the process and procedures and decisions were different than now. NHRA has moved toward trying to eliminate the subjective decisions and has established policy based on a portion of the AHFS. Not that it is without its flaws either. However, just petitioning NHRA without substantive performance data to back up your request, you are probably not going to get very far. There are racers out there who have realized how that system works and have become masters at establishing their power level to an advantage. However, racers with big egos who always want to show out and those people who race very popular combinations that support a very competitive cluster will be at a disadvantage. If you really want to reduce your power rating, you have to be dedicated and savvy to play the system.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

Its not who you know.....

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

I was being sarcastic in my responses. I know how it works...aint my first rodeo as they say. I was even around when a certain Corvette got 75 hp off and that did effect me. E/S.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

And wait until he gets HIS aluminum intake!
But I've been trying to warn you all about these "progressive" Mopar guys!

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

Dwight, is there a way to see what cars are in a particular class in your website? I'd like to be able to pull up a class and see what cars fit or maybe ever ran in it. Might be too much work as there must be thousands of combinations.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

Billy, that may not help on those early B and RB Mopars as the heads are similar to the heads on your 307. The Edelbrock replacement heads take a lot of work to make them legal as the valves are too big. Probably be worth the effort in SS where you can weld up and re-machine the seat pockets and fill in and shape the bowls.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

James,
As posted before, Nitro Joe's Stats would be a great
way to get an idea of who is running what. Then
you can go to Classracer Info and fine tune your
questions. Keep in mind ,depending on the car, that
it could possibly fit 3,4,5,6 or more different classes
with different engines,i.e. '69 camaro or nova.
The combos are endless. Bob

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

Thanks Roberte. I looked at it many years back but didn't sign up. I looked at his website and sent him an e-mail. I didn't see what info he provides and what format? It might be most useful in some spreadsheet format so it could be sorted in any number of ways. I didn't see any links on here.

I'm sure there are hundreds or thousands of combos. Not really endless but a finite but rather large number. Sort of like the odds of winning the lottery, extremely small but finite. Approximately zero but not zero.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

James, really it is not that difficult since all the data is in a relational database. The problems will be that everybody will have differing opinions and wants for what the list would include. If, for example, you wanted a list of all the possible K/SA combinations, do you want the whole list, a list that would show only popular body styles or would excuse station wagons, a list that would be only GM, Ford, Oldsmobile or some combination, a list that would only include 4-bbl equipped engines, etc. etc. I have a few queries that I have created for myself and providing a function on the website that would make it truly useful by allowing configuration options is the problem.


Doubtless, such analysis was part of the original reason for building the database and the information that is possible is far more valuable than Nitro Joe's data. If you were looking for a combination like Mr. Hale's, it would not be in Joe's lists until this year. However, it has been available for over 13 years.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

Dwight, I suppose if it was in a spreadsheet form and had enough columns to search by, then the individual could sort it as they wish. I guess that would add a lot of columns that probably aren't in the national database. I would think to include cars that have been active in the last 5 to 10 years. I'm not sure I care if it was a station wagon or have a 4bbl engine, but is it faster than me? Like you say, others might want that info.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

How come that combo lists two different cam specs? Is one optional?


Engine Blueprint Specifications: 1966 Chrysler 325 HP 383 V8


Camshaft:Intake LiftExhaust Lift
.431 .443
.425 .437

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

Not the '65 tri-power 389. It's still at 360 hp. Because they allowed the '62 318 hp tri-power down to 280 (H/SA) I've been requesting the '65 tri power to get within 10 hp of that. There's not enough difference in the two to shake a stick at. .007 more lift. Same carbs. 1.88 v/s 2.02 intake valve. That's it. Two years I've been trying. They won't budge on it. Don't feel real happy about building the car and giving them data for a year or two to prove it. But I gotta dream. The only '65 GTO tri power 4 speed in Stock.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

Can't have too much variety, I guess.
Only room for Camaros now.

There's another way to go about this.
Bring it out and go slow. No heads up runs around in Div 7 now.
Love to see it.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

And, apparently, old Mopars!

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

'66 389/335/300 is not bad. Uses the same head that was developed for the 421/376. 12.0:1 compression. 625 cfm AFB. Not a killer, but at least competitive.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

Can someone get another intake approved for Billy? He said he had a one year only intake. I can sympathize with that. Hard to find one year only parts. Best of luck Billy.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

Don't worry James, I'll make due. I knew what I was getting into when I built the combo and I'll get by without any "outside help".

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

OK Billy. Just don't drag us all the way back to 1972. I can't find most of the pistons approved for the 273 2bbl combo (Badger, TRW, etc.), so I don't want to have to find the OEM pistons with the Chrysler part numbers on the tops. I've been looking for the factory iron intakes and no luck so far. A friend of mine has a 1965 4bbl 273 intake, but that would need the early heads with the funky intake bolt angle. It's hard to find parts for the old engines, especially the unpopular ones. I think everyone did what I did with my 273 2bbl intake and carb. Sent mine to the scrap yard when I put a 340 in my street Dart. I wish I had kept it now.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

If only we knew then what we know now!
Oh well, too soon old, too late smart.

Re: What Combo?????????????
 

We ran this combination. The carb is the tiny 525 and there is no new carb replacement, if you look at a "modern" 525 AFB you will see why. The old ones aren't common but we found a couple and sent them off to Dean Oliver, who did a magnificent job making us one bad boy race carb. NHRA allowed us to use a later model Road Runner intake manifold, which we found to be way better than the '66 piece. We ran our '66 Belvedere in H/SA. It ran mid 11's and got eaten alive by more "affluent" racers in 350 Camaros but it seemed like the combination had a lot of potential. I think the new lifter rule would help at least a little bit.