The Future Of Stock
 

Evan Smith wrote an interesting article on the future of Stock. Its interesting and maybe a little controversial. Leave a comment and lets us know what you think.

http://classracer.com/magazine/?p=6037

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

Will the folks paying $30,000.00 to $40,000.00 for a 396/375 Stocker motor please speak up. Hybrid Stock is DOA!

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

Sounds like crate motor might come back and now with NHRA. CM is a cheap fix.Who doesn't want the flexibility of a 750 or 850 Holley with a choke. Aftermarket aluminum intakes and reasonable cam profiles. The only pricey item is the required pistons and that can be changed.Ken, I had a legal CM motor that I drove on the street for a whole summer. Put it on the turnpike and raced it at the Grove. Only problem that I had was the EZ Pass fell off, probably after a nice 10" wheel stand, and I got gigged by PennDot the next month. Easy to accrue parts and a fair amount of flexibility.

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

Why make more classes when NHRA keeps lowering the quotas for Natl's?? Stock is one of the most populated classes. I think we need to move the Factory cars to Comp and combine sticks and autos and have less classes. I've been around stock and superstock for 40 years and I can't even keep up with all the classes. So how can a newbie?? Less is more!!




Bret Velde
2003 SS/LA

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

Already done,its called Pro ET.

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

I like combining sticks and auto's. Maybe 1 pound weight breaks. Not sure about the crate motors. Not sure about GT stock.

The guys for the crate motors think it will be cheaper are in for a rude awaking. Guys will spend money on crates and the guys racing engines as purchased will be complaining about money and cheating. What ever happens to stock will happen.

With the top brass running the ship a ground and taking as much money as they can before it happens this sport is not long for extinction. Like some of the guys I work with, all they are worried about is retirement and nothing after.

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

^^^^^^^ What Todd said and maybe move the Factory Shootout cars to Comp.

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

i have no problem with any of his suggestions. I would actually add a pure stock section.

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

Stock Eliminator keeps changing. Cars go faster. Cars get more expensive. Costs more money to race with little payback.Turn S SS to NMCA? NHRA with higher round payouts and or car win payouts? More contingencies with cash not merchandise? New President and maybe some help.... You can declare yourself as a gambler and deduct you losses. This is an actual federal law. Change the tax code to allow racers, must race X amount of races per year to qualify, and the racer get to deduct from gross income 50% of their yearly race expenditures. Low payouts, contingencies, etc are problems of the past. With SEMA figures, the auto racing industries contribute big dollars to the economy. Now, massage the rules to allow substitution of parts and you have opened the door to new blood. Clear up the crazy rules. One day tech and qualifying. One day eliminations. Many problems solved.

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

GT Stock would be ok, as long as it would allow me to run my 400/327 combo in my '62 Catalina... I'd be all about that...

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

Quotas are down to what 60 cars per event now. Why do anything you won't be able to get into a race anyway. I thought when Clifford came in he was going to do all this great stuff for the sportsman? He hasn't done anything. Hell we don't even have to tech before going down the track. Who would have thought that would ever happen?

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

I know this is Evan's opinion and not NHRAs at the moment, and I thank him for addressing an obvious problem, but not the way to go..in my opinion.
Bringing in more non-stock Stockers, and even stealing another IHRA class, which we talked about right here about a month ago, won't fix the problem NHRA created.
Want more classes? They're already here. There are plenty of classes that aren't represented at most nationals.
Here's how you bring them out:
100 entries at all events running class.
64 car field. Class winners , plus low ET qualifiers. No combo class.
Build the right car, and you might get in the eliminator with a .30 under piece...for a while, anyway. That will lower the cost for a few.
For?
Against?
Why?

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

I thought I might add this.
Closest class race from Phoenix- 600 miles round trip.
65 quota..Takes 5 gp's to get in.
5 gp's , round trip, 3300 miles.
Want to fix a bad system? Good place to start.

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

great point.

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

Bret,

Please re-read my story. Combining sticks and autos would cut the classes in half. It's time. The cars, for the most part, are equal in performance. As far as my other ideas, I didn't say add new classes, instead, let the cars fall within the current structure where they would based on hp and weight.

These are just ideas to create dialogue amongst racers to keep our style of racing attractive. I see so much negativity on the 'net in terms of racers complaining about NHRA, but hardly anyone has suggestions to improve anything. Maybe there is nothing wrong with the current format, but it never hurts to toss ideas around.

My crate engine idea was not to make racing cheaper, but to get the manufactures more involved and to offer an option for racers not wanting to run a 30-, 40-, or 50-year old engine, but still race a car they currently own. A byproduct would be less time spent sourcing old parts and cost savings to those with expensive engine combinations.

Thanks,

Evan

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

I would think that GT/Stock would be the last final desperate step to take if Stock gets to the point that a 64 car field cannot be met on a regular basis at national events. Not a problem right now, but I would say GT/STK might be something to look into 5 years from now.

The immediate problem I see right now are the OBD II cars (1996 and newer) listed in the NHRA Classification guide. There are a bunch of 1996 and newer cars in great condition for sale ( at a very reasonable price) that would make great Stock Eliminator entries if the factored horsepower was not so high. Racers are afraid to build these newer cars because they do not feel they will be competitive. So, they do not get built.
Plus, the build cost is much less than a 60'-70's car which are increasingly hard to find at a decent price.

I did some research last year and found that not one single 1996 and newer Ford ( traditional Stocker) entry was given horsepower in the last 13 years. So it's not like racers are building new "traditional" Stockers right now and are going out blasting their index.

Solution:___If NHRA would give all 1996 and newer models currently listed in the classification guide (that have not ran at least 1 tenth under index ) a 15-20 % reduction on the factored h.p. then that would attract more racers that are fans of these late model vehicles to get out there and build a newer model Stocker.

That's the area that needs attention, IMO

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

And crate motors in NHRA Stock would absolutely be the last desperate step to increase entries, IMO.

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

Good luck with that! That would have fallen under the "Obsolete Combo Rule" that Yac, Dwight and I tried shopping to NHRA a couple of years ago.
I'm beginning to think that the NHRA would rather just run ET-2. They don't need any knowledgeable personnel to run it.

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

Mark why is it always about you not able to go to national events with 1 or 2 grade points? Its not reality .You want to go to old system where a soft car is KING .Oh we have that already FSSS
Please go racing already or move EAST young man .I'm about to go 700 miles
for divisional race I have a grade 8 I'm good

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

Hey Evan,

I agree with you whole heartedly on combining sticks and auto's it's way overdue and I thought your article was very well stated and we need to throw new ideas around. I just don't understand trying to create more classes when the powers to be keep lowering quotas and can't even police the classes they already have. Just my $.02. Now get that Cobra back out here!! LOL




Bret Velde
2003 SS/LA

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

That's been my opinion for a while now. If the new regime feels they are running a business (not a "club" catering to it's members, providing detailed tech for just about any combo), why would anyone running a business want to deal with the intricacies of the current, aging, soon to be obsolete "antiques" that are now being run?
They're probably trying to find a way to kill Stock and replace it with a bracket of some kind without pissing off too many people and losing the participation, i.e. money.
I've loved Stock since I was a kid (I'm 58), but I can understand when something has outlived it's usefulness.

Edit: I was a partner on a car for 3 years in the 90's. I wouldn't get involved again, the way things have devolved.

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

Certainly Billy is absolutely correct. They abhor the requirement to technically police this class considering the near endless permutations.

You don't need much of an imagination to recite the conversations among NHRA directors regarding Stock.

Your use of the term "club" is an appropriate one Dave.

I never had the inclination to think that NHRA is all that concerned about pissing off its customers. They grouse but obviously continue to show up.

The future of NHRA Stock is inauspicious to be sure and certainly for more reasons than one.

Now, make the case and create a list illustrating your need of the NHRA.

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

Okay, I am just a fan and not a racer so my skin in the game is a little different. First off I agree with combining the classes, to see heads up between the two would be great. Think crate motors would help with younger racres that like classracing, but want to run a different motor and dosent like the super classes. Perhaps if Nhra went after the manufacturer's that would help the class and the companies, since part sales is a gold mine.

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

NHRA doesn't want the "Manufacturers" ( car,parts,pizza) spending their monies on the Sportsmen. They want them spending it on the pros. They can charge them far more monies and expend far less effort using far less people.

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

james perrone;532352 mark why is it always about you not able to go to national events with 1 or 2 grade points? Its not reality .

(James, this thread is about getting more stockers to participate, either new ones ,or ones that are not being raced. There used to be 100+ car quotas at Vegas for class races.Now there is not)

you want to go to old system where a soft car is king .

(No, I want to go to a system where classes we already have are fully represented)


oh we have that already fsss

(Not the answer.Too expensive for the average working guy)

please go racing already or move east young man .

( I've raced in five divisions now. Moving back to div 1 doesn't solve anything. They have a huge amount of cars there, and ridiculously low quotas too. )


i'm about to go 700 miles
for divisional race i have a grade 8 i'm good.

( All ideas are certainly welcome here, but that's yours, for getting more participation in Stock Eliminator? Thanks)



MY

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

The Future of Stock lies in new blood...

Having the Manufactures send in the Specs on the New Cars so they can be adopted into Pure Stock.
Think is will bring a lot of new kids in who can afford these hotrods.
Remember the tracks in the early 70's were packed.

For the new cars suggest Bolt on Mods...
No mods under the Valve Covers...
Headers, Mufflers, Tune, Converter, Tires..
No Roll Bar, NO Race Fuel..
Most of the new hotrods run well into the 11's, 12's and 13's in Stock form.

Lot of racers would love to buy one of these new rods and run Pure Stock.
IHRA just does not have the depth to handle this influx.
Too hard to get specs from the manufacturers.

Know there is a huge market for the new generation Chevy SS, Camaros, Dodges Demon and Fords who want to compete against each other.


D

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

Billy, I understand what your saying, but getting the manufactures in would be a win for everybody involved. The pros can't fill their fields now, because their isn't enought sponsor dollars to go around. Nhra missed the target with all access also. Show Sunday live online, maybe do a sportsmen Internet show. Follow a class racer for a year, say the Fletcher family. People love that stuff look at street outlwas and all the car shows. You have to show people there is more than just nitro going on. Stock needs more options for young people to race. Perhaps find a sponsor for stock/ super stock and up the payouts. Pay for number 1 qualifier, and class records. Pay for best appearing car and crew. Even if it is say 250 bucks that is something. People want to feel wanted and will show up. Push the entries back to 90-100 cars, yet the show prove itself.

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

Wow I can't believe that everybody missed it........................

NHRA does not want Stock & Super Stock Eliminator to survive......

NHRA sets quota that are so low that the quota in itself eliminates heads up runs...

If NHRA sets a quota of 65 cars in an eliminator that contains 67 different classes how can we hope to have heads up racing....

It appears that NHRA has a plan and Stock Eliminator is not part of that plan...

If NHRA had an interest in undoing the damage that they have done with not allowing Stock & Super Stock to race because they are unable to gain entry to National events, they could undo it with the stroke of their pen or keyboard....

NHRA just has to open the entry up to ALL Stock & Super Stock class cars that have at least 1 grade point. The reason for the 1 grade point is get the NEW racers trained in NHRA procedures...

It appears that NHRA only cares about the timing of their TV dog and pony show and Stock & Super Stock are nothing more than a minor inconvenience..

The racers want Stock & Super Stock but NHRA doesn't....

I don't know how to fix this but it appears that the problem is caused by, and can only be fixed by NHRA....

Maybe grass roots will take over and we will re-start after NHRA goes under...

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

I disagree, we for now are a necessary evil. They need us to pay the bills and until something else comes along they must have us along with the other sportsman classes to find the rest of the circus. No sportsman would end the whole thing and they are not that foolish.

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

Daniel, Are you going to be the one to tell these kids they can't change the pulleys or throttle bodies? LOL

Seriously though, these guys are used to leaving home on a Friday afternoon, and being home the same night.
Wait till they find out how much it costs to play with NHRA.
Fact of the matter, as stated by Bob M., they don't want these cars at national meets.

"No time, ..No time..got, got, got no time..."

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

To Bob and the others,

There's more to life than racing an NHRA national event. Yes, the quota stink, I hate the fact that there are so few S/SS cars left by Saturday afternoon.

Still, simply complaining doesn't do any good. News flash: You can race your Stocker or Super Stocker at NHRA Opens, Divisionals, with the new NMCA Stock/SS class, and the multitude of regional sanctions. So, just because a limited number of racers can race a national doesn't mean the sport is dead.

My story was meant to shed light on the class and to perhaps look at ways to grow participation affordably by considering rule changes to better fit the times.

Evan

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

The opening line from Mr. Mulry sums it up completely.

I firmly believe Stock and Super Stock are much more than minor inconveniences to those at the NHRA.

Pragmatically, Stock is burdensome. The price of dealing with the burden may very soon become more than NHRA is willing to pay, regardless of the revenue generated from Stock racers.

The denial is palpable. It has to be realized that no one wants to watch class racing, whether on TV, the Internet or at the track. That is, no one other than the current club members and even then probably a rather small percentage would view special programming or features.

This is merely a very expensive albeit enjoyable, self-serving endeavor with very little promotional opportunity.

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

I'm all for.combining sticks and autos but no weight breaks for autos. Same weight for both. Auto are equally fast and in some cases faster.

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

FS classes stick and auto are already combined, seems to work ok.

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

You want more participation GET OFF INTERWEB..
Same people crying about same things Most of you have quit already
Yet still so bitter about grade points.If it was easy EVERYONE WOULD BE DOING IT
Please Ken can we get a PURE STOCK section just for Dan his opinion is self serving

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

First off, it is just pro ET, like one said 68 spots 67 different cars (class)
You want new people, get rid of heads up, no more $40,000 396-375 engines, unless you want one, but now you have to actually race. I've talked to quite a few racers and that's the biggest road block to getting into class racing, the money outlay (for average guy not daddy WarBucks wanting to buy a race) I know this is blasphemy to most but things evolve. In the 50s-60s racing revolved around our cars, not now, it's plain to see NHRA doesn't want us around at national events and if you didn't provide the gate fees now we would be history. Wish and hope it'll be like the old days but not in this day and time. I vision myself as just making a few divisional races at best and do not want the hassles of a National event. Maybe I do need my head examined for getting into this. All my opinion

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

Combining automatic and manual classes will end up costing racers more money and in turn participation will suffer.

Let's look at A, B, G, and H for example, the most popular stock eliminator classes. Stick racers today rarely have heads up runs. If the stick cars are now mixed in with the autos the probability of a heads up race, per race goes up exponentially. Hypothetically speaking where you were once the 2nd or 3rd fastest or even the fastest in your class in your division when the classes are separated, you could now be 5th or worse when its combined. For these stick racers it sounds like you need to either spend more, work more or walk away.

On the flip side, some of the stick HP ratings vs automatic HP ratings on the same car are laughable. Look at the LS1 stick cars for example (Firebird, Camaro and Corvette). Look at the Shelby Mustang stick HP. For the auto racers to keep up they will either need to spend more, work more or walk away.

Leave this one alone.

What does it solve anyway? Less class contingency payout which is peanuts anyway? Less class trophies? Less administrative work for NHRA or Nitro Joe to keep track of? Give me a break.

What does it create? A few more heads up runs per race. Big deal.

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

Good post, "fred"

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

My opinion is NHRA wants the new blood factory stockers to be the future of the class. Maybe a 64 car field with an exorbitant entry fee and race for peanuts. There are plenty of stock and super stock cars still racing. The problem is the short quota and the low pay out. How many want to invest 100k to run for a $1200 purse. Raise the quota and purse and then there will be enough cars paying the entry for NHRA to afford tech people again. I am a working man and can only go to so many races each year so I run the divisional and nationals that are close to my division. That's the way it should be. The local division racers should have first chance at a national event in their division. I would not be in favor of adding any new classes to stock or SS. They asked if we wanted to combine stick and auto this year in SS. They didn't even consider they the HP and indexes are not the same for both. So what do you do with that. That was one of the things the SRAC was discussing and it was postponed for more info.
The problem with the new factory stockers is once the factory stops producing the cars and parts that will end those classes. The economy is improving now but how long will it last. Some bean counter will step in and ask what are we getting for our investment. I don't think the factory race cars are a sustainable future for the class. Very expensive.

Re: The Future Of Stock
 

There already is one