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-   -   Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=66166)

Billy Nees 05-07-2017 09:36 AM
Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Boudreau vs.Hidalgo. Yes, Boudreau staged and "accepted" the dial BUT how can the people in the tower who are NHRA employees let an A/SA car "accept" a dial-in of 12.00? I guess that we can all expect to have NHRA "accept" our dial-ins no matter whether they are on or below the index or not! Welcome to ET-2!

Pistol Pete 05-07-2017 09:48 AM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
WOW, i saw that too.

That was well ABOVE the A/SA index of 11.00.

Should be a re-run, but yeah i guess once you accept the dial & stage, It's Game Over.

Definitely a bad way to lose though.

Bob Don 05-07-2017 10:32 AM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
I thought the software didn't allow a dial higher than the index?

SSDA Hemi 05-07-2017 10:57 AM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Should have been a rerun. The software should not allow a dial slower than the class index, but you would probably need the timing system computerized to do that LOL!

Sad.... slowly turning into just a bracket race!

4406mopar 05-07-2017 11:40 AM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
The tree never should have been activated. This is what NHRA thinks of stock racers, and what your entry money is buying.

Mark Yacavone 05-07-2017 11:48 AM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Where could "12.00" come from, besides a computer error?

Pistol Pete 05-07-2017 11:53 AM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone (Post 534105)
Where could "12.00" come from, besides a computer error?
G/SA index perhaps.

Sad this has to happen !!

Pistol Pete 05-07-2017 11:56 AM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Or maybe he dialed 10.00 & they thought they saw 12.00.

Crew Chief 05-07-2017 02:00 PM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Most systems have a flashing red notification that comes up on the computer screen to alert the operator of a dial-in "over the index". But the computer operator has to let someone know of the situation, otherwise the tree will still come down. Computer operator must have been not paying attention. Probably talking to someone else in the tower and did not notice the red flashing alert on the computer screen.

Crew Chief 05-07-2017 02:07 PM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Red flashing alert should have shown up on the announcers computer screen too.

Nmbr1GMfan 05-07-2017 02:11 PM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
The driver has many jobs.

7423 05-07-2017 02:17 PM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crew Chief (Post 534113)
Red flashing alert should have shown up on the announcers computer screen too.
The flashing red alert should have gone off in the driver's brain before he staged. That's what the dial-in boxes behind the starting line are for . Make that mistake once and you will never make it again. Can't blame this one on NHRA.

SSDA Hemi 05-07-2017 03:31 PM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7423 (Post 534116)
Can't blame this one on NHRA.
The issue here is the dial-in is OVER the class index. The slowest a Stock or Super Stock car can dial is there respective index. NHRA rule.... or so I thought

Jack Zimmerman 05-07-2017 06:27 PM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Aside from the issue about a dial in over the index, just to clarify for those that may not know....when you PRE-stage, you accept the dial in. Don't ask me how I found out.

sammy pizzolato 05-07-2017 10:42 PM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
i think the dial in was backwards.

Chad Rhodes 05-07-2017 11:41 PM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Zimmerman (Post 534131)
Aside from the issue about a dial in over the index, just to clarify for those that may not know....when you PRE-stage, you accept the dial in. Don't ask me how I found out.
I found out the same way at the gators a few years back. Burnout boards weren't on, and it was super early and with the sun/glare/etc I couldn't see that my 11.77 was changed to an 11.17. But I staged and I owned it. Still think it's a cop out on NHRAs part.

Toby Lang 05-08-2017 04:22 AM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
If they started giving reruns then it opens the door to people angle shooting. Some people will start making their dials ambiguous etc... So in case they lose they might be able to get a rerun. The rule has worked fine for years.

PJ305 05-08-2017 07:33 AM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
What would have happened if Country Dog red lighted? Would he have to live with results because he staged his car? No double standard!

Daran Summerton 05-08-2017 07:36 AM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
How about to support Jim everyone at the next national make the dial ins EXTRA EXTRA BIG across the back window! Like the whole thing :)

Brett C 05-08-2017 07:58 AM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Two wrongs here as I see it.
Dial in incorrect by NHRA as there was nothing that alerted them that the dial was slower than class index.
It is driver's responsibility to ensure that dial is correct before staging.
Two wrongs don't make a right.

HR9121 05-08-2017 08:47 AM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Its easy to become complacent because they get it right 99.9% of the time. I catch myself not looking sometimes and checking the big scoreboard to make sure it's right. I hate to see anyone loose like this but ultimately it's our responsibility just not sure why it wasn't caught being it was over the index that's what really is troubling.

Mickey Whaley 05-08-2017 08:54 AM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
The announcer said WOW second time in 2 weeks then he got quiet for about 5 minutes

HR9121 05-08-2017 08:58 AM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
How many times does it happen that we never hear about? Either the racer catches it or a crew member......

Angelo DiTocco 05-08-2017 09:33 AM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
So lets say for arguments sake that Jim noticed the tower's mistake as he left the line and was somehow able to pedal his way to a 12.00 and win the round.

Would he then be DQ'd for having a dial that's over the index?!?

That's why that rule is BS - and also because the driver is not the person entering the info into the computer.

They should have a key-pad at the ready line and have the drivers punch in their own dials... that way if its wrong... it is without question the driver's mistake.

Pistol Pete 05-08-2017 11:03 AM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelo DiTocco (Post 534198)
So lets say for arguments sake that Jim noticed the tower's mistake as he left the line and was somehow able to pedal his way to a 12.00 and win the round.

Would he then be DQ'd for having a dial that's over the index?!?

That's why that rule is BS - and also because the driver is not the person entering the info into the computer.

They should have a key-pad at the ready line and have the drivers punch in their own dials... that way if its wrong... it is without question the driver's mistake.
That's a Great Idea !!!!

Jeff Stout 05-08-2017 12:08 PM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelo DiTocco (Post 534198)
So lets say for arguments sake that Jim noticed the tower's mistake as he left the line and was somehow able to pedal his way to a 12.00 and win the round.
No because you can RUN as slow as you want and still win.

Would he then be DQ'd for having a dial that's over the index?!?
No because he was dialed this during this run and was not DQ'ed. The dial in on the car has to be index or faster.

That's why that rule is BS - and also because the driver is not the person entering the info into the computer.
This is why it is drivers responsibilty to check scoreboard on each and every pass. Racing 101

They should have a key-pad at the ready line and have the drivers punch in their own dials... that way if its wrong... it is without question the driver's mistake.
I do agree that computer should always show a red screen if dial is slower then index to pre catch a problem when being entered, but NOT when car is staging. After being entered yet faster then index and still not correct then it reverts back to driver to ALWAYS verify dial in

Mark Yacavone 05-08-2017 12:38 PM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelo DiTocco (Post 534198)
So lets say for arguments sake that Jim noticed the tower's mistake as he left the line and was somehow able to pedal his way to a 12.00 and win the round.

Would he then be DQ'd for having a dial that's over the index?!?

.
Now that is a good question. I would say the opposing driver would have a good case for a re-run. Sounds like the right thing to do.
As we all know though, that is not always the criteria which is used.

Mickey Whaley 05-08-2017 01:04 PM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
They got into it at the scales

ken robinson 05-08-2017 02:10 PM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
They got my dial wrong 2 rounds in a row at Lebanon and the dial is very clearly marked on my windows .I was starting to wonder a little.

tim worner 05-08-2017 02:30 PM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
If you race long enough it will happen to you too. It,s a lousy way to lose.

Bobby DiDomenico 05-08-2017 02:53 PM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelo DiTocco (Post 534198)
So lets say for arguments sake that Jim noticed the tower's mistake as he left the line and was somehow able to pedal his way to a 12.00 and win the round.

Would he then be DQ'd for having a dial that's over the index?!?

That's why that rule is BS - and also because the driver is not the person entering the info into the computer.

They should have a key-pad at the ready line and have the drivers punch in their own dials... that way if its wrong... it is without question the driver's mistake.
Don't have the rule book in front of me, isn't there a line about dialing over your index not allowed? Have had the local track and the NMCA mess up my dial a few times. My fault for not checking, though when I did catch it they corrected it.

I was under the impression the NHRA software wouldn't allow going over it though as a girl I dated once said, "When you 'assume', you make an a....."

novassdude 05-08-2017 03:43 PM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Every one keeps assuming the software will not let it happen but as often as it seems to happen it is obviously not the case. Just curios do all National event tracks run the same software?

Mark Yacavone 05-08-2017 04:10 PM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by novassdude (Post 534251)
Every one keeps assuming the software will not let it happen but as often as it seems to happen it is obviously not the case. Just curios do all National event tracks run the same software?
Yes. They bring in their own clocks and tree.Of course, the track wiring has to be compatible with it.

Toby Lang 05-08-2017 10:20 PM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelo DiTocco (Post 534198)
So lets say for arguments sake that Jim noticed the tower's mistake as he left the line and was somehow able to pedal his way to a 12.00 and win the round.

Would he then be DQ'd for having a dial that's over the index?!?
I have thought about this and I say if you can scrub 2 seconds off your ET and still get the win, you are the winner. This would be different from somebody purposely dialing above the index because they can't run it. They should be DQed immediately or if the tower catches it they are dialed-in with the index.

Mark Yacavone 05-08-2017 11:29 PM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby Lang (Post 534294)
I have thought about this and I say if you can scrub 2 seconds off your ET and still get the win, you are the winner. This would be different from somebody purposely dialing above the index because they can't run it. They should be DQed immediately or if the tower catches it they are dialed-in with the index.
Thinking along those lines;
How about if Jim had done as you said, and won the whole thing?
Post race interview, he says."Yeah , I saw the over the index (incorrect) dial-in in the 3rd round but I staged up anyway. I got a clean tree, then I waited for him , and then wheeled him all the way to the finish line.Thankfully, it all worked out."

Now what, NHRA?

Everett Vassar 05-08-2017 11:34 PM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by novassdude (Post 534251)
Every one keeps assuming the software will not let it happen but as often as it seems to happen it is obviously not the case. Just curios do all National event tracks run the same software?
I have ran Compulink several times in bracket mode,but never in index mode. It is very simple...tab to the next field..ENTER...tab tab ENTER... in bracket mode..if you enter a car number, and that car number has been eliminated, when you hit the final ENTER the screen will flash BUYBACK.you must hit ENTER again before the system will accept the pairing. SO IDK why you wouldn't get a similar message if the dial is over the index....yes the car number gets entered before the dial.

Toby Lang 05-09-2017 12:09 AM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone (Post 534299)
Thinking along those lines;
How about if Jim had done as you said, and won the whole thing?
Post race interview, he says."Yeah , I saw the over the index (incorrect) dial-in in the 3rd round but I staged up anyway. I got a clean tree, then I waited for him , and then wheeled him all the way to the finish line.Thankfully, it all worked out."

Now what, NHRA?
NHRA loads up and heads to the next race, while Jim treats his family, friends and crew to a nice victory meal.

Ron Ortiz 05-09-2017 09:57 AM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
So let me get this straight. If I leave the starting line and notice that my dial was over the index, and pedal it, and win by some luck, it is OK. So, that means that if I hurt my motor in a previous round, I just dial up to cover it and not be concerned with the incorrect dial if I can pedal or stay in it to hit it.

So, we are truly bracket racing with the flexibility of the dial.over or under the index. I guess all the people who have been eliminated for the wrong dial now have a second chance with this fiasco from NHRA. Now, lets add in Tru-Start.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA what a mess

HR9121 05-09-2017 10:39 AM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
I'm pretty sure if he had wheeled it and won the round he would've been DQ'ed even though he had the correct dial on his car he accepted the incorrect dial by staging. Best case scenario he might would've got a rerun but I would imagine just a DQ.

jcadreau1 05-09-2017 11:28 AM
Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HR9121 (Post 534326)
I'm pretty sure if he had wheeled it and won the round he would've been DQ'ed even though he had the correct dial on his car he accepted the incorrect dial by staging. Best case scenario he might would've got a rerun but I would imagine just a DQ.

Why would he get DQ'ed? It was an error by someone in the tower and he did not intentionally dial over the index. If that scenario would have occurred then his opponent would then have an argument for a rerun. I'm guessing his opponent was aware of the incorrect dial giving his late reaction time and being well above his dial or maybe just caught off guard with Jim leaving first. What happens if Hildago redlighted and they DQ'ed Jim for staging with a dial above the index even though it was an error by the tower? Then you have the possibility of both drivers being eliminated and a round 4 bye to the next opponent.


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