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-   -   4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=66502)

Todd Gross 06-05-2017 10:30 PM

4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question
 
I am in the process of ordering a manual transmission for my FS/D-E Challenger.
By rule, I can run a 4 or 5 speed as the OEM 6 speed has two OD gears.
Talking to the Transmission companies, I hear claims that the 5 speed is worth a tenth over the four. I'm not sure I buy into that.
As an engine builder I am constantly hearing parts vendors from oil pumps to piston rings to valve train, all promising their product is worth 12 to 15 HP or better. Although they all are gain, if all the 15HP claims came to fruition, I may be closer to fielding a Top Sportsman car than a Stocker.
I also have to factor in that the extra gear change may make consistency 1 gear more difficult, not to mention the added rotating mass will have some parasitic loss.

Whats can the the stick shift community tell me?

Thanks*

Don Anderson 06-05-2017 11:26 PM

Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question
 
5-Speed is the way to go with your combo.
It has been proven many times that a 5-speed seems to make the engine perform better in closer power band.


Don Anderson
M/S #5891

Glenn Briglio 06-06-2017 12:21 PM

Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question
 
Just wondering................anyone try a 6 speed?

Dave Casey 06-06-2017 12:37 PM

Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question
 
If I had all 4 speed stuff already, I would put it in. The 5 speed will be faster, but I doubt it is worth a tenth, especially in a big motor fast car. When Kevin Helms ran a stick in his Dragpac it was a 5 speed, I questioned him on it and he said he was sure it was faster. Why don't you talk to Kev. I have run both in my g/s camaro and, but the 5 speed was a nash and not as good a piece as the jericho. ran about the same.

Glenn, I don't know if there is a 6 speed that is approved, or a stock one that would stand up to what we do.

Sean Marconette 06-06-2017 01:54 PM

Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question
 
No way it's worth a tenth in performance, that's a sales pitch. Your able to tighten up the rpm drop between gears. Depending on the vendor you have more choices on gearing too.

Give G-Force and Liberty a call.

Sean

Glenn Briglio 06-06-2017 02:09 PM

Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Casey (Post 536565)
If I had all 4 speed stuff already, I would put it in. The 5 speed will be faster, but I doubt it is worth a tenth, especially in a big motor fast car. When Kevin Helms ran a stick in his Dragpac it was a 5 speed, I questioned him on it and he said he was sure it was faster. Why don't you talk to Kev. I have run both in my g/s camaro and, but the 5 speed was a nash and not as good a piece as the jericho. ran about the same.

Glenn, I don't know if there is a 6 speed that is approved, or a stock one that would stand up to what we do.

Thanks Dave. Didn't know if the tremec could withstand the abuse or if it's legal.

weedburner 06-06-2017 04:50 PM

Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question
 
If it's a Tremec 5spd, you would likely only be using 4 gears anyway. Remove overdrive gears if you can, it's that much less you have to spin up.

Todd Gross 06-06-2017 05:22 PM

Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question
 
[QUOTE=Dave Casey;536565]If I had all 4 speed stuff already, I would put it in. The 5 speed will be faster, but I doubt it is worth a tenth, especially in a big motor fast car. When Kevin Helms ran a stick in his Dragpac it was a 5 speed, I questioned him on it and he said he was sure it was faster. Why don't you talk to Kev. I have run both in my g/s camaro and, but the 5 speed was a nash and not as good a piece as the jericho. ran about the same.

I am on the fence as to use a Liberty or a G-Force. I'm sure the 5 speed would be faster and probably more fun. But if it's just a small increment faster and a bit more inconsistent to nail dial in, it may not be worth the plus side. That's what I'm looking at.

Good Idea about talking to Kevin! I will try to PM him

james schaechter 06-06-2017 08:51 PM

Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question
 
I would go five speed. You can get a better spread on gear ratios and it would just be more fun! There is no issue of consistency being different between four or five speeds. The five speed is heavier bring a friend when you need to put it in! LOL

dmir55 06-07-2017 10:30 AM

Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question
 
I think G-FORCE makes a 6 speed based on the Doug Nash Tranny. A friend on mine has one in his 59 Vette. This is a street trans, but I think they said they could build a race version. Six speeds in our car, you would be busy.

Todd Gross 06-07-2017 12:48 PM

Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dmir55 (Post 536645)
I think G-FORCE makes a 6 speed based on the Doug Nash Tranny. A friend on mine has one in his 59 Vette. This is a street trans, but I think they said they could build a race version. Six speeds in our car, you would be busy.

Wow. 6 speed? I don't think my attention span could handle that.

Rob Wright 06-08-2017 08:57 AM

Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JMan (Post 536529)
I am in the process of ordering a manual transmission for my FS/D-E Challenger.
By rule, I can run a 4 or 5 speed as the OEM 6 speed has two OD gears.
Talking to the Transmission companies, I hear claims that the 5 speed is worth a tenth over the four. I'm not sure I buy into that.
As an engine builder I am constantly hearing parts vendors from oil pumps to piston rings to valve train, all promising their product is worth 12 to 15 HP or better. Although they all are gain, if all the 15HP claims came to fruition, I may be closer to fielding a Top Sportsman car than a Stocker.
I also have to factor in that the extra gear change may make consistency 1 gear more difficult, not to mention the added rotating mass will have some parasitic loss.

Whats can the the stick shift community tell me?

Thanks*

Todd,

Don't rule out the possibility of a tenth faster ET with the 5-speed. I'm thinking about a black COPO that was always a LOT faster than it should have been with a given engine combination.

Todd Gross 06-09-2017 09:55 AM

Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Wright (Post 536748)
Todd,

Don't rule out the possibility of a tenth faster ET with the 5-speed. I'm thinking about a black COPO that was always a LOT faster than it should have been with a given engine combination.

Thanks Rob, good point. I believe I know which one your talking about.
Hey, good to hear from you. Going to be at Indy this year?

Cameron Collins 06-09-2017 10:19 AM

Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question
 
If your running stock with a small tire I would go automatic. All that horsepower on a small tire is gonna be hard to get hooked up. Even if you are slipping the clutch. If your running super stock big tire. Thats the way to go. Just my 2 cents

Todd Gross 06-09-2017 07:17 PM

Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cameron Collins (Post 536847)
If your running stock with a small tire I would go automatic. All that horsepower on a small tire is gonna be hard to get hooked up. Even if you are slipping the clutch. If your running super stock big tire. Thats the way to go. Just my 2 cents

No doubt the automatic may be the smarter avenue for hooking up and consistency, but I never claimed to be smart....No comments please*
Actually I like the challenge of the clutch. Have never had a competition vehicle with an auto and I guess I'm too old to change now.

Scatpack1 06-15-2017 02:04 PM

Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JMan (Post 536885)
No doubt the automatic may be the smarter avenue for hooking up and consistency, but I never claimed to be smart....No comments please*
Actually I like the challenge of the clutch. Have never had a competition vehicle with an auto and I guess I'm too old to change now.

I would like to hear how this works out for you. I am another of those die hard or just hard headed stick guys.
Jerry

dmir55 06-15-2017 10:34 PM

Re: 4 speed or 5 speed...That is the question
 
Ask a PRO stock racer how many gears they would use, if they could. The more the merrier!


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