Interesting Commentary - why does it takes longer ....
Some interesting commentary from John D at Drag Racing Edge.
...........IT’S ABOUT TIME…LITERALLY Even though elapsed times have plummeted over the years, it’s taking longer to run events than ever before. And it seems like drag racing is the only one not concerned. The National Football League announced plans to speed up their show. Major League Baseball finally succumbed to the stupidity of pitching four balls to a batter before said person is allowed to “walk” to first base. Even the Professional Golfers Association has realized they aren’t holding the attention of today’s viewers. I clearly remember attending one of the first big-dollar bracket races back in 1975. Byron Dragway’s Ron Leek was the promoter and to this day I remember him screaming continually on the PA system in that deep baritone voice of his, “I have to have a pair of cars going down the track every 30-seconds if we’re going to expect to finish this race.” It’s a number which has stuck with me ever since. Today though, when it comes to sportsman/bracket cars, we’re looking at roughly anywhere from 40-seconds to over a minute for a pair of cars to go down the track. And this has nothing to do whether it’s a quarter or eighth-mile, the numbers are still the same. The amount of time it takes to actually go down the track is miniscule, it’s all the ancillary things which happen which add up time; burnouts, staging, etc. While this might not seem like a long amount, it adds up. When a promoter gets upwards of 300 or more cars for a high-dollar bracket race, he needs to have them going up and down the track in a timely fashion. A minute a pair isn’t timely. Think of just this: 300 cars equates to 150 pair. At a minute each, that takes 150 minutes barring no down time. Cut that to even 40 seconds and you knock 50 minutes off the round. How much quicker can a race be completed when you can knock 33-percent off the time? And the biggest offenders, believe it or not, are dragsters. They do a burnout across the line and then have to back up followed by carefully staging the car. One suggestion no one has tried would be to back the water box up 50-feet or so and not allow burnouts across the line, similar to door cars. And let’s not forget about the professional cars where three-minute pairs can seem like an eternity, forgetting about the endless parade of trucks which roll when an oil down takes place. Here’s something which isn’t going to make me popular in the pits, but we need to think about the show. Pro Stock cars burnout across the line, back up carefully and then wait until a crewmember resets the wheelie bars. All that takes time. I understand the reasoning behind re-adjusting the wheelie bars: tire sizes are changed between rounds to accommodate gearing; after the burnout, heating affects tire size; oftentimes wheelie bars are used as part of the suspension so adjustment is critical; I get it. But it’s time no one wants to watch. At this past year’s Winternationals, the Top Sportsman class was showcased for the first time. Somewhat mimicking Pro Stock, they did their burnouts, backed up and then sat while a crewmember adjusted the wheelie bars. Now is the time to put a stop to it and enforce a rule that once a car leaves the burnout box, no one touches it. In Jr. Dragster racing, there is a “blue line” at some tracks where once the car passes it, no one except the starter is allowed to touch the car. I told you this wasn’t going to make me popular in the pits. But it has to be said. In most cases, NHRA Lucas Oil Drag Racing Series divisional events have turned into three and four day affairs. Why? Thirty and 40 years ago, divisional events were simple two-day, Saturday-Sunday races. In the northeast part of the country, we got 400-500 cars at each and they were done in two days. Back then too, there were some which ran pro cars in addition to often running a bracket race on Saturday night. What has changed? Is it because more time is spent with track prep? Or are racers a little more careful in how they’re racing? In any event, we need to get back to what we came for: Running cars up and down the track. Today’s society wants everything immediately and we have a very short attention span. As for sportsman cars, we just need to get the “show” done faster. In the case of pro cars, people don’t necessarily want to sit in the stands while nothing is going down the track. Fans came there to watch racing. If they don’t see it, chances are they won’t come back. And I “think” we need them coming back! |
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Amen to all of what he said.
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Very good commentary, often wonder about the same issues.
At one time comp eliminator dragsters were not allowed to burn out across the line and they had front spot brakes for behind the line tire warming. Would this be feasible for super comp? Some racers are "entitled" to staging last and using up another 3-4 seconds after their opponent stages. If you red light why let off and make a 20 second run, it's all over. |
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Much as I like sportsman racing, watching the live feed from Joliet led me to believe that changes have to be made if spectators are going to show up and stay. Lots of down time and begging racers to show up in the staging lanes. I've spent a little time at rodeos. If you roped at Cheyenne and Dan Taylor called your name, you backed in the box or your steer got turned out. The word got out quickly. Made for a nice show. Don't know why it wouldn't work in drag racing.
Pete |
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I agree with most of what was said, but... where did the deep staging comment in the top of the post come in to the equation .? Deep staging in an auto start system takes no longer. You get in deep ,quick, or you don't get in. What does take time, like another post said, is the bozo who tries to hang you out to dry by taking every second to prestage then stage . I say ALLOW DEEP STAGING IN STOCK!!!. I know , I know, everyone with a fast car or super human reaction times will tell me they don't need it. But it doesn't hurt anything if done in autostart. Just my opinion
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Funny this thread comes up .............. I was told they were holding up the racing this weekend because they were AHEAD of schedule !!!!! Cars were coming back UP the return road before they sent the next pair down lol
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I agree !!!! If they allowed deep, we'd race Stock !!!!! |
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I think "Deep Staging" is the name of the column, the content however is about time management. Maybe bring back dry hops 5 cars deep to speed things up:eek::eek:
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I guess that's the name of the column . It pulled me in anyway. The rest of it..Who cares? Don't watch them anyway. Every once in a while, at Vegas, I'd walk up by the side of the tower to watch Stock while the alcohol cars were still running. Talk about jacking around. 15 crew persons have to pile in the tow rig and get out of the way so 15 more can pull up. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Anyway..Remember when the 5 amber tree was the big time waster? LOL |
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Allow Deep staging and use a .5 pro tree for everyone.It would make things interesting for sure.
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Limit over the line burn outs in SC, top dragster and top sportsman to one dragster length beyond the starting line. Make it like 25 ft past the line. If they cross that line then they are eliminated or they don't get a time for they run. The door car classes can not burn past the starting line. Also no touching the car once the burnout has started. The wheelie bar adjusting is out of control. The driver should be able to start his computer from the drivers compartment. The cars should be sealed enough so that the crew does not have to fan the doors for the driver to be able to see. All of these antics take precious time
As far as reporting to the lanes. There needs to be a time limit. If you or your car are not in the lanes when the first pair in your class runs then you are eliminated. With the exception that you notify the rear of the lanes that you are thrashing to make the round. People running 2 classes need to make sure they coordinate their run time so they can be in the lanes as needed or have a crew member weigh and fuel check the car they ran first. |
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Learn how to race the right way 2 stage bulb on Dream on I like the way it is GO DEEP GO HOME red light Adjust the rules for a few blah blah |
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I don't deep stage. Other people like to. It's only an option. Geez
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We have many candidates here for biggest time waster in drag racing.
Must admit adjusting the wheelie bars and fanning the doors rank high amongst non racing friends. (They wonder why they just don't back up with the door open:-) Don't even get them started on bus loads of starting line standing folks for funny cars and dragsters. The biggest time waster in baseball is easily stopping the game for TV commercials!!! |
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I was race director at the old Speedworld in AZ. We had a 3 day Jr dragster event that all employees regretted doing because of it being dragged out way to long. On Friday I watched and put rounds on a stop watch and 1 pair of cars were taking 1 minute and 20 seconds to start to finish. It really was ridiculous. On Saturday we had a driver/parent meeting. I described what was going on with each pair which was the pair in the water box was watching the entire race before them before starting their cars in water box. I asked for a vote in which the pair in front of them pre-staged then the cars in the water box had to start engines. The vote won by majority. Now through out the day I would run the rounds on a clock and we were down to 50 seconds start to finish per pair. It was a total success and made the race get over in time and nobody was in a rush and safety was not compromised. I guess what I'm saying is if change needs to happen to speed up program then let the race director know or sanctioning body know. It can improve if wanted.
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"Deep Staging" is the name of John D's column in the magazine. It has nothing to do with the content of the editorial, which is time management.
At Loose Rocker Promotions, we pride ourselves on time management. The two biggest factors are 1) having cars in the lanes and 2) time between the burnout box and the starting line. We have finished a race with 416 entries, 1 time trial, 1 round of re-entry style buybacks in just over 14 hours, including having dragsters, double-entries, late-round cooldown, talking splits, and any breakage, track prep, or other downtime, etc. Big props to Jeff Stout! That's how you do it! :) |
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Always liked the intentional walk where the pitcher slips up and either throws it over the plate and an alert batter pounds it or he wild pitches and tosses into the stands. Mentioned earlier about drivers starting the computer recording, is it that difficult to have the driver to it rather than a crew member touch the car? |
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I'm pretty much by myself when I go racing and I have the computer switch next to shifter. Prestage and hit switch and system is set on dtiveshaft rotation before starting record. It's easy.
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Here's a great video showing burnouts and pre-run stuff at an early-70's Gatornationals. How long did it take back then when they would do a burnout and then back up 2-3-4 times to do dry hops?
Old Drag Racing video footage from Island Drag way, Englishtown and the 3rd annual Gatornationals (Starting 1:30) |
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Wow, I'm impressed. I thought only three people read my stuff; me, my wife and my art director. But thank you all and I think you get my point. It just takes too long to run races today. I'm surely not pointing fingers at any group in particular, just that we came there to race, let's do so,
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I also read your article.
At the March 2 bottom bulb throwdown at Noble, Nick complimented on the PA how quickly we (as door car/no box racers) completed a round of time trials. Granted it was 1/8 mile. 146 entries ... 45 minutes per time trial round. And, there were about 8 dragsters in the race. 45m*60=2700s/146 entries=18 seconds (if my math eq is right). Clark Doukas |
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Talking about time management.......
We raced at the National Open in Fallon, NV along with the Jr. Dragsters.... The Jrs ran before us and on when we ran our 1st round every car spun the tires..... We did some investigating and found out that the trick of the week for the Jrs ranged from coating the tires with diesel fuel, diesel fuel additive, WD-40 and almost any other slippery stuff they could find to soak their tires in.... They wrap the tires with a cover or plastic wrap to keep the tires clean and wet to just before they run.... After finding out this information I went to the Starter and I informed him of the unsafe racing conditions caused by lubricating the starting line.. He stated that they usually drag the track after the Jrs.... I suggested that they stop the racing and do what they are supposed to do with the starting line... The starter contacted the tower and was given permission to do their job.. We ran after the Jrs the rest of the race but we had no problems because the track did their job.... After the Jrs ran we had about 10 minutes of down time before Stock / Super Stock ran so that the track could be dragged.... My hats off to the track starting line crew for doing a great job of keeping the track prepped..... Not so much with NHRA that allowed this problem to happen.... |
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Can't say for sure that this was a problem in the past, but sure wastes a lot of time now. When a racer aborts their run then thinks it's ok to idle down the entire track. Very inconsiderate of the next pair and makes my temperature rise.(literally). Then there is the drivers that can't figure out how to make it to end turn off and everything stops till the safety truck hooks them up and clears the track. The pro cars do this all the time. What gives?
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John D. great and well written article. I have said the same thing to many Division 1 Directors before with no proper answers coming from the all of them. I've taken neophytes to our sport and all have said the same thing, WHY DOES IT TAKE SO MUCH TIME! From my local track where all dragster driver thinks of himself or herself as the show and most do a John Force type burnout across the length of the track wasting precious time and leaving the rest of us waiting for them to line up just perfect. Well the Pro Clown show doesn't interest me anymore but again waiting for the tire scrubber, the wheelie bars adjusting, throttle stop removal, etc,etc have cost many fans to say is this ever going to stop! Even at Divisional races I've seen sometimes up to 10 minutes with no action going down the strip. Come on NHRA get with the program and kick buts if you have to.CR
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One thing I found that wastes time, after the finish line, even the slowest cars continue to the gate where the Top Fuel cars turn in. Why can't they turn off sooner at the first gate or have a turn out like an exit ramp on the interstate. They'll be out of the way so the next pair can run instead of waiting for them to turn off. That's what all those high dollar brakes are for!
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seems like a lot of the tracks allow to many people on the starting line. like on the tv shows, and why do you need someone to hold the back of the car when do a burnout.
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If not you are just another stroke with an incorrect opinion |
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If I could afford it I would run a top sportsman car. However, it appears as of late it requires 6 people to get one in the frickin beams!
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I'm always amazed especially if you are competing at a track for the first time----HOW HARD IT IS TO LOCATE THE STARTING LINE -----WHERE IS IT ????? TRY TO FIND THE STAGING BOXES OR JUST CREEP UP UNTIL YOU TURN ON THE PRE-STAGE ???? REALLY ????? TRACK OPERATORS NEVER NOTICE THE NUMBER OF DRIVERS FEELING FOR THE STARTING LINE -----MARK IT WITH ARROWS OR CONES OR SOMETHING !!!!!!!!!! IT KILLS A TON OF TIME !!!!!!!
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OK, Nmbr1.... This will be my last post on this topic Why do find it's necessary to post on this topic????? I don't know if you attended the race in Fallon but I do know that the conversation between myself and the starter was private and conducted at the starting line... The starter stated to me and only me that they drag the track after each and every Jr session to return the track to "normal".... Since in many of your postings you admit to your lack of knowledge regarding drag racing, I will attempt to give you some insight.. In Stock and Super Stock hundredths of a second mean something.. If a tire does not hook the same from one run to another, that is a wasted run... To you spinning a tire would look like a nitro car burnout, but to us the change in 60 foot times by a few hundredths is spinning the tires.... You also appear not to have a frame of reference when making your posts on almost any racing topic.... You also tend to misquote people such as "If you think tire prep leaves puddles of oil on the track you're crazy."..... This is why in this type of drag racing we cringe at sight of jet cars at the end of the day, because Stock or Super Stock is first out in the morning. The kerosene that the jets use for fuel "lubricates" the track and change our 60 foot ET's...... I hope that this response has been helpful, Bob Mulry |
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