Class Racing Farce
 

Watching this dog and pony show has just reminded me once again what a farce I have subscribed to After spending more than any reasonable person could justify to build what I expected to be a reasonably competitive car only to put hundreds of pounds of weight and hours of detuning it to stay "on the porch" I have realized the stupidity of it all.

The lack of AHFS control(the farce) and the fact these guys can go out there and run one and a half seconds under their supposedly carefully calculated index is just laughable. They will go home next week, load the trunk with lead, drain the 3in1 oil out and fill the crankcase with 20-50w. and head to the lanes at their next divisional to play the game of keeping their index from being hit the following week. This has almost nothing to do with innovative tuning, research and development, or chassis science....it's about playing the ridiculous cat and mouse game with NHRA.

So if it bothers me so much why don't I just turn it loose and run it like the hot rod I planned? No really....tell me why I don't!

Pardon my whine.....just in a bad mood tonight after seeing a car in my class run .6 tenths faster than my .85 under car.....and this just happened to be the closest platform!!! I probably should stick to Facebook and just go post pictures of my tacos, fake pictures of Trump beating a baby, or play Kandy Krush.....or something other than the tongue lashing that's surely coming my way from the enlightened masses.

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

I'm sure someone who believes they spent an unreasonable amount on a .50 under car feels the same way about you and your .85 under car.

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

I don't fault anyone who can build a 1.50 under car....I salute them and try to emulate them. It is the ridiculous classification system in which we compete that I am referring to.

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

I think that you will more competitive playing Kandy Krush. Wow how exciting.

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

I mostly would have to agree. There are obviously some combos that are better or softer. I also realize that more research and planning prior to jumping into a car/combo could have us all driving cars that fit into those softer combos or classes. The individuality and disparity is what makes Stock so intriguing though.
That aside though, in all honesty NHRA probably does not need to suspend the AHFS for this race. It is the most prestigious race on the circuit for any class racer to win his class at so the fast cars would still let it all hang out most definitely, and the Factory cars that don't qualify for F/S/XX should then just not qualify just like the traditional Stockers that do not Qualify for the field must go home too. It would be more equitable for the classes overall and the AHFS would keep the playing field more even over the long haul.
Just my 2 cents

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

So would everyone feel better if the 1.50 under guys kept getting AHFS hits in any given class? The way I see it, the guys that can run the furthest under will win no matter what system is in place, and as well they should.

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

That's easy to say if you've never run a low hp combo and receive an early 5hp Christmas gift like some of us have in the past. For me that meant an extra 200 lbs. That's like taking $7500 out of your work and tossing it into the dumpster. We all love wanting to find ways of making our stuff go fast. But I think Kirby has a point how AHFS continues to be exploited by the fat wallet racers. A guy with the $150,000 F/SA car will always control the "budget" $25,000 F/SA racer. They can buy horsepower and buy the NHRA at the same time.

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

But the thing to remember is: The #1 qualifier at this race doesn't get a 1st round bye.
It's definitely a High Prestige Self Awarding Accomplishment to do whether it's at Indy or any other National or Divisional Race to be # 1.

The other point is: You can be .85 under & make it to the finals as long as you do not race the 1.45 under car during the rounds. And even if you did run him, he still has to stage the car & race you, everyone knows in this sport "anything can happen".

Here in Div. 1 at 1 of our points races 1 guy made it to finals in Stock Elim. by barely running his index, so anything is possible.

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

There's a good posibility I may learn something new here being a newb, but no matter what rules are in place won't it always be the "fat wallet racer" that has an advantage in class eliminations? Throw everyone in the bracket end of this and all of a sudden the playing field looks pretty level.

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

100% Correct unless your running against Mr Fat Wallet Racer heads up during the rounds

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

It's not the fat wallet or great builder that disheartens me. It's the stoke of NHRA's pen.
302ci Ford at 133 hp or there about depending on the body vs 283 Chevrolet at 170 hp.
Bigger bore and more cubic inches is worth -37 hp? You don't need NHRA's sometimes used factoring to see that that isn't right. I'm not faulting those that are running the combination. They are just using what was given them.They would still be tough at 180 hp but at least the field would be leveled a little. My rant for the month and I've used it up early.
Pete

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

Keep the info coming, as I'm new to this as well, and at times wondering why I'm building a SS/BA car.

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

Plenty of ways around that too, everyone plays the ladder to their own advantage, running those people late in the ladder if they both make it that far. Here's my problem with the complaining, it's a drag race, the faster car is supposed to win and we all have to make a decision how much $$$ we're willing to sacrifice for a trophy. Or maybe we should add up the contingencies to find out how long it will take to get our money back from the 1.5 under engine investment.

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

This guy is spending the $$$.

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

I've been racing stock eliminator since the late sixties and this is the same argument in just a different form since then, this is what we signed up for going in. If you didn't realize that you didn't research what you were doing very well.

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

I like to consider it an entertainment tax.


Seriously though, while going to Indy yesterday did answer some questions, it also raised a few new ones....Such as, how can some of the Superstockers even be considered as such, (aero scoop, etc.), when they're not even remotely close to stock? The more modern car packages seem much better suited to going well under index, while my mid 60's platform clearly has at least a few more constraints. Guess that's why there's so few of them still doing this.

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

Hi All,

All I want to say is to careful what you wish for.

Back in the day we raced off records and if a record got blitzed in the fall or winter we still had to race off it in the summer.....

There is talk about the people who can only go .50 under having to race a combo in the same class that can run 1.50 under isn't fair....

Just to give everybody a quick refresher on the index system because it was started to assist the cars that couldn't run on the record and to keep them racing.

If the AHFS where enforced in its purist form, it would cause a very large number of cars not being able to run the index and they would instantly become non-competitive.

The rules and rule makers have caused this problem by allowing Stock to become a Mini-Super Stock.

NHRA allows parts that never came on cars from the factory and now, almost unlimited access to aftermarket hi-performance, non-factory parts.

The result is that Stock is not entry level as it was intended but almost a professional category.

The racers that want to go fast will, no matter what. The guys who don't want to be fast won't be fast. If AHFS was run in it's purist form it would probably end Stock Eliminator. Everybody with a MOPAR 340 or a 305 Camaro would get a horsepower hit. The racers that ran 1.50 under would run .50 under and the racers that ran .85 under would run .15 over. It would turn Stock into Comp where only the strong survive no matter what.

Back in the day we had the Farmer looking out to level the playing field. Some people liked how it done and some people hated how it was done, but in the end most people respected the process. Today is a different day because the NHRA Technical Management people don't get it that we want the rules tightened and enforced to keep the field level.

If you race a car with a combination that can run 1.50 under and your doesn't and if the AHFS was adjusted 9.25% you could retire from racing, change combinations or change your approach as to how you run your car.

The system with all of its flaws and BS keeps more people racing. It AHFS was strictly enforced it would drastically reduce the amount of entries and nobody wants that.

AHFS isn't the problem.

The problem sits squarely with NHRA Technical Department Management because of their lack of knowledge and the ramifications of rule changes. This is a classic case of "The law of unintended consequences" that we all have to live with.

I guess that I got a little long winded, but I feel very strongly about the problems facing NHRA Stock Eliminator racing.

Thanks for putting up with me,
Bob

PS:
I really, really wanted to use bold type..........

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

I'm wondering too.

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

Great post Mark! I sent you a message. See you soon.

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

Correct.by having no ahfs in play at Indy
Indy is the only place ahfs would help even things out and award earned HP
This isn't about the U/SA of the world
It was done to save the NEW CARS getting factored out of STOCK

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

This is exactly how I feel, Bob is better versed and educated in the class arena than I am, therefore his explanation nails it for me. I'll just assume the NHRA allows everyone to show the potential sans the penalty at the most prestigious race of the year.

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

Bowling Green's Sportnationals is an example of Ahfs in play verses not in play . Or Gainesville. Racer's run just fast enough to get the job done . No killer runs, no showing off their hot rods potential. Why turn Indy into just another National event ?
In my opinion It would just force everybody into protect mode, like any other race... Let'em continue to fly at Indy......

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

Hey Barry....nice to hear from you. I just wrote you this really long windy super intelligent straight to the point response to you message.....but couldn't figure out how to send it. Doh!! I guess I'm a bigger dumbass than I showed in my original post.

All is well in Bakersfield other than 60+ days of 100+ degree heat. I'll just keep bitching until somebody agrees with me or feeds me a poisoned burrito. (Don't tell my wife she'll be in the refried beans aisle at Vons tonight).

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

Mark, nobody shops at Vons. They have transgender bathrooms.

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

I'd bet your building it for the same reason I built mine ... you love the package. You don't have to be the fastest to enjoy the participation experience as much as anyone else out there. The nostalgia factor for yours is through the roof! All the best to you for getting it done!

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

You're exactly right, Bill. I'd never consider another body style, and since they're a bit of a rarity these days, I'm looking forward to having something that's a throwback to the good ole days. It's def. a learning curve from what I'm used to...Thanks for the support, and best of luck to you as well.

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

Another good reason for leaving SoCal :D

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

Are there any REAL STOCKERS like say a 1969 Camaro that can run 1.50 under??

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

No, John. Probably not. That's because everyone has or had one, and wanted to show how fast they were. That's just the nature of hp to weight classification.
There is one that runs 1.20 -1.30 under but most folks wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
It's always going to be the guys who aren't afraid to try something new, that stand out from the crowd.

Re: Class Racing Farce
 

Lotta truth to that statement. Still though, not everyone has the same motivation or objectives. For some, it's the love of the game.