Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

Since starting this month and until at least January(west) or maybe as late of April(Div 1)...we all become keyboard jockeys to some extent. Therefore, I throw this out for comments:

If you do not(perhaps never) bracket race your Stk/SS/SG/SC car....why not? Is it one or a combo of the following:

1. Payout vs entry fee, lack of contingencies
2. Wear and tear on high RPM state of art motors
3. Expensive and short life radial tires
4. Quality of competition
5. Work commitment resulting in reduced opportunities
6. You consider it the "minor leagues"
7. Other

Not trying to start anything or rattle anybody's cage....just curious....

http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=4973

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

#2 is my main reason. I choose to keep mine fresh for class racing events. I built my car to run super stock.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

I agree #2. I love to bracket race but it's not what I built the cars I have now for.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

#7- Nothing against bracket racing. Having been brought up around sports with lots of rules/regs, I liked the challenge of selecting and building a specific car within the context of rules/regs, make it competitive,hopefully without breaking the bank. There has been plenty of sanctioned races to go to between NHRA and IHRA even with the demise of local tracks running stock and super stock as regular programs(ancient history). However, with the rules as they are today, and the demise of IHRA, looks like it is better to build a bracket car. Easier / cheaper to build and maintain, can compete at any local track most weekends, no concerns about getting HP or losing a heads up race cause you are just not fast enough, no worries about tired motors, etc. All around cheaper racing, although lower purses.I bet NHRA won't be to far behind getting rid of stock and super stock, replacing it with some type of 'stock appearing' bracket class or classes, say 0.00-10.99 and 11.00 and slower with rear tire limit, current body and chassis mod limits, and safety requirements.
They would probably keep 'factory stock' - if you want to call it that.
Only one man's opinion.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

#2 cost of 30,000 dollar super gas motors with big camshafts.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

NHRA is already on the bracket racing course, Stock is no longer "Stock" as it used to be. If you were missing your auto choke link on your carb you were out, now any carb that meets the measurements. The cars now are nothing but bracket cars (fuel cells, racing seats, removable steering wheels) made to look like the way that they came from the factory with the somewhat correct engine. Times are changing and so are the cars, NHRA is looking to increase their bottom line. No looking at cars, short cut in tech and tear downs are basically non existent, cut manpower.

Casey Miles
248H Stock

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

I manage to do a couple bracket races at my local track during the season. Nice change of pace. I would do more if I had the time.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

#8 Poor track prep

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

#7 I just thought this time of year was down time for people back east to do maintenance and freshen up. Being out here we can run year round.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

I believe Stock and Super Stock is bracket racing with rules. You can change your dial in every round. I don't think you should be able to change your dial in. When I raced Super Stock back in the early 70's you ran off of National Records and most National events you had to win class and pass tech to race on Sunday.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

Then you're just going to the wrong bracket races. Most big money bracket races offer outstanding prep.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

I bracket race my Stocker periodically at my local track. It seems that more and more, they are leaning towards 1/8 racing, which is disappointing. It is very difficult to be competitive in a Stocker nowadays in the 1/8 mile when I'm foot braking and actually manually shifting my car, while my competitors are letting go of their trans-brake buttons and using air or electric shifters down track.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

Ah, the good old days.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

The good old days! Mattered if you were fast. Not everybody could run the record.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

Even in Super Stock, I've always footbraked my car (no 2 step), and shifted my 3 spd by hand (and did so for strategic reasons).

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

Be interesting if your fastest run in qualifying was your 'assigned' dial and had to be used thru out eliminations, breakout rule still enforced.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

Actually here in eastern North Carolina some of the best bracket races take place this time of year. Starting in November thru February the 2 local tracks have about one big race a month each, they are well attended and the payouts are pretty decent.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

I agree that is the way it should be the way it is now you are just bracket racing.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

#1 isn't a con. Generally Bracket Racing pays better for much less entry fee. Probably because the track doesn't have a 12 people making 500k a year.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

Totally agree, around here, $30-50 entry $1000 to win with a slapped together car, they have more in the tires and wheels than the entire car. But they can slap a .001 on you in a heart beat round after round. The beauty of bracket racing is you run yourself, not the million dollar car in the other lane. Hard for people to understand that.
Mike

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

Rusty, Things are definitely different from when we first started, but I would say it depends on what class you run,as to whether it's bracket racing or not .
I 'd say maybe you need to bring one of your Fords out here to Vegas in A/SA.
If you manage to go a few rounds, you'll find out real quick that it ain't bracket racing anymore. ;-)
Hope to see you, and good luck!

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

I got my start in drag racing at the local bracket races, a million years ago (but it feels like yesterday). Now I don't bracket race my stocker nearly as much as I would like to because #2, the stocker motor is worth too much money to risk blowing up at a local bracket race. Also I can't spare the time and money for bracket racing. I am slowly getting a bracket car together that will "feel" the same as my stocker that I can drive to the track. I believe that bracket racing is the best practice for Stock Eliminator.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

"..I can't spare the time and money for bracket racing. I am slowly getting a bracket car together that will "feel" the same as my stocker..."


No dog in the hunt.

But, I'm just curious how you can build a bracket car to race, if you "can't spare the time & money for bracket racing." ? :)

Also wondering about the idea that Stocker engines cost too much to run bracket races. I've read on this forum that the Stock purse is very low, at most races. But there are lots of bracket races around the country that pay $10,000 on up to $50k to win. And lots of 'em have 2 or 3 separate races on a weekend, with $10k or more to win, each day.

I understand that some guys prefer to spend big money to run a second under their index, at div & national events. But, the reason can't possibly be for the purse & contingency money. So, I assume it's mostly to be able do what most average guys cannot afford to do. Then for a few others, I assume it's because they have the know-how & mechanical skills to get a car under the index, which most bracket racers do not have.

This is not a put down, in any way. I love to keep up with the Stocker racing, tho I've never had the budget to do it, on a national level. This is merely an observation, from what I've seen, and from what I've read on this forum.

It's just my personal opinion that NHRA let the Stock rules get WAY out of hand. To me, just the cam/valve spring rule alone changed the game, quite a bit, and increased the cost of a competitive engine, in some classes, by many thousands of dollars. And, I assume that the inclusion of the light trans, like the TH200, also increased the price of buying and maintaining a super competitive trans, by quite a few bucks.

I'd be interested in hearing from some of you older guys, who have raced Stockers since back in the '70's, about how the major rules changes, such as the cam/valve spring rule & light trans rule, affected your racing costs. Thanks !

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

The high dollar bracket races are multi entry fast paced races. Some engines its hard to put a high volume of runs in a short time without the chance of damaging them due to heat and other factors.
The guys that have the more expensive class engines are not doing it for the money. Running your high dollar 396 or 426 Hemi that is designed as a max effort deal doesn't have a long shelf life. Plus an engine like that needs the valve covers off and to be maintained and looked over more often.
There is no advantage of running that type of engine against a top flight bracket engine running on alcohol that can make 20 runs without any maintenance. Many purpose built bracket race engines can go 400+ runs without batting an eye. A max effort deal can't be run like that.
Cost has just gone up everywhere. Building a competitive car that can with the big money races can be very costly. Its just not 1980 anymore

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

Yeah, who would do that?

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...68&oe=5A8A8B9C

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

I don't know what percentage of Stockers also run bracket, with the same car.

But, being a Pontiac freak, I do remember that Brad Burton won a well known bracket race, which I believe was called the Spring Fling. The car in the pics LOOKED like the same car he races in Stock Elim. Don't know if he made any engine or tuning changes for that race or not. :confused:

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

I’ve driven that car. It’s a great car, very storied, and a winning record to say the least. A 500+ HP Pontiac that runs less than 6500 RPM will last along time, but compared to a high RPM 396,426 and so on it’s a tow truck engine. I own and race a Pontiac. They are tow truck engines. Other than Scott Burton’s deal. Most make less then 530 Hp and don’t turn any RPM. You can put 3 to 400 runs on those engines without missing a beat.

Michael, you are a very accomplished racer. One of the best out there. But your cars are bracket cars that fit a class or 2. Nothing max effort or
Remotely fast against NHRA cars. A low maintenance race car.



QUOTE=oldskool;550931]I don't know what percentage of Stockers also run bracket, with the same car.

But, being a Pontiac freak, I do remember that Brad Burton won a well known bracket race, which I believe was called the Spring Fling. The car in the pics LOOKED like the same car he races in Stock Elim. Don't know if he made any engine or tuning changes for that race or not. :confused:[/QUOTE]

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

I agree with Todd, I personally don't have a problem doing some bracket racing with my car. Although it's a little bit in the pricey range to freshen it doesn't even come close to some of the expense of some older combos.
My view on being able to run NHRA has nothing to do about being snooty, country club or anything else we've been called, its just what I like to do. And I don't care alot about the purse or contingency, I just want the Wally and don't mind telling it lol! I know guys that have way more money in their equipment than I do that just bracket race. In this day in time it has nothing to do about how much money people have its just about what they want to do.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

Honestly, how long does it take to change the engine in your car? Some might be hard but most it's a piece of cake. Also most have older engines setting around, a bigger cam, better cam carb, it'll make a good bracket engine, go have fun in between the big races.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

So don't bracket race a 396 or 426.

How exactly is the Dart a "bracket car" and any less of a Class car than any other? A car either fits a class or it doesn't. The Dart was a Class car from the day I first laid eyes on it. It's got a John Irving motor in it for G/SA. Is John Irving's fleet just a bunch of "bracket cars that fit a class or 2"?

The Volare was a Class car when I bought it, and it had continued to be a Class car right up until I broke the crank last summer, and I decided to make it a full-time bracket car. The Turismo was built as a Stocker from day one. Just because I choose to bracket race Class cars does not make them any less of a Class car. I've set national records, won class, and even been #1 Qualifier with my car(s). I'm sorry if their consistency, driveability, low maintenance, and success offends you.

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f0&oe=5ACD792A

Funny, no one asked me where I qualified or where I ranked against other G/SA cars on Nitro Joe's list before they handed me the Wally. I'm sorry that it's not "remotely fast" and not a part of "max effort" **** swinging contest that I would never have the desire or finances to "compete" in.

If you don't want to bracket race a class car, don't. Nobody's twisting your arm. It's some pretty offensive elitist BS to belittle others' cars that do choose to use them and enjoy them, though.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

Michael, somebody asked about why guys aren’t taking their stockers and running for the big money races. I was giving reasons for why some don’t.

Your cars or performance didn’t offend me. I should have stated that your car was built to do both. Leaning more toward the bracket side. It for the bracket side of the eliminator. Not a car to win class. At least against NHRA cars at NHRA races. Do you take your Turismo to high dollar foot brake races? I doubt it. And if you did or do you are not beating the pros that win the money at your races.

I’m not better than anybody by far who bracket races. I don’t feel elite in the slightest. I don’t have the car or the skill to compete in your type of races. I’ve built the 2 class cars completely that I’ve owned and won races and class with. In NHRA class racing the guy who can build his own car and makes it the best he can with time and money can have an advantage over the guy who spends minimal money and effort to show up to the races with his. Through heads up, qualifying, car quality and so on.

A bracket car is built with a different purpose and is unique with the parts and makeup of the car. At least for every day in and out racing of its type. The people that do it are no less drag racers then anybody else. Just different then what the people mostly compete in on this site.

I didn’t belittle anyone. I’m sorry if your offended. I have nothing but respect for your driving and accomplishments.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

OK, thanks for clarifying.

My cars were built for as much as they could do within my budget. How is this in any way relevant to anything? I'm not rich, never have been, never will be. I have no interest in going massively into debt to "maybe" get into the same zip code as people I can never outspend in order to get another Wally while not making the car any more competitive in the other 99% of racing that I do, just to feel accepted by a handful of people on a message board that really don't care anyway. If people have the wherewithal, and choose to spend their time and money in that way, and that's what makes them happy, that's great! More power to them.

http://www.staginglight.com/photos/farm_win10.jpg
2010 Footbrake Champions Showdown winner

http://www.staginglight.com/photos/turismo_pd10.jpg
2010 Footbrake Nationals

http://www.staginglight.com/photos/b..._farm_wc11.jpg
2011 Farmington Race of Champions winner

http://www.staginglight.com/photos/duck_lanes.jpg
Yeah, probably never footbraked a 4-cyl FWD Stocker against delay box cars at the K&N Spring Fling at Bristol (and tree'd all but two in eliminations all week... one I was red, and the other one had me .011 to .013), either...

I'm quite familiar with Class Racing. This is exactly what I've done, and I've done it for 20 years. (Oh, $#!&, I'm old! When did that happen?!)

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

You interjected yourself into the conversation about your class car that bracket race. Then when I point out the differences between the cars that aren’t built for that type of racing you promote and participate, you get offended and start talking about money spent and dic swinging contests.

You don’t care about what people think about you on this board, but you always post about your accomplishments and starting line prowess. Sounds like your trying to prove something to someone.

I give you all the credit in the world for winning in that Turismo. Nobody can take that away from you.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

The title of the thread is "Bracket Racing vs Class Racing".


Yes, I absolutely did find it offensive when you chose to belittle class cars that people choose to bracket race as just "bracket cars that fit a class or 2".

QUOTE: "Nothing max effort or Remotely fast against NHRA cars."


QUOTE: "Do you take your Turismo to high dollar foot brake races? I doubt it. And if you did or do you are not beating the pros that win the money at your races."

So throw a baseless jab out there that you don't even have any knowledge of, and the same thing when you claim that my cars are just "bracket cars", and I set the record straight on performance of the vehicles, and then you blame the other person for "trying to prove something" for simply setting the record straight? Wow. That's a brilliant win-win for you. Congratulations.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

You put a picture of your car as an example. Those weren’t the cars I was talking about including my own not being an example. I stated my views on why or why not.





It really doesn’t matter at this point. Anybody that wants to race their class car should. Bracket racing is a wonderful venue and enjoyable for everyone.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

Sheesh, thought I clicked on yellow bullet for a second there....

To sum up both points of view then, how about we say "in general";

A bracket car is over tired and under powered, built to make as many consistent passes as affordable as possible (for the ROI)

A class car is maxed out in every effort to get the utmost in performance from a particular combination.

One who chooses to do both with a class car does so knowing that the car they built to race class (if indeed a max effort) will have less ROI than a cheaper "strictly brackets" type car.

I too love seeing class cars clean up at the big bracket bashes, Lol!

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

Hey "Boys"! this is getting to sound like the 3 bears. This is too hot and this is too cold and neither one is just right.
Well, Daddy Bear is home so both of you calm down and go to your rooms!
Some Racers spend too much money to go Class Racing!
Some Racers spend too much money to go Bracket Racing!
Neither one of you should give a crap about how other people spend their money! It's their money!!!
You're both the greatest thing since sliced bread! And IF you are, then I'm the bread slicer!
In my lifetime, I have, on occasion, made more money Bracket Racing AND Class Racing then I have working for a living. I will chock that up to being a lucky man in the right place at the right time!
I would NOT advise any sane individual to do ANY kind of Drag Racing if that individual is looking to make a profit!
The END! Done!

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

Sounds like a new car name Billy,

“The Bread Slicer”

Lol!

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

Help me out here to understand the difference, I have been racing my whole life and been around the drags for 55 years. I mostly raced ET and super gas. Thy last time I raced in a stock class was 1966 in a new Nova L79 in A/stock. The way I understand the difference is there is very little difference please correct me where I am wrong. In stock you use how much below your index to set your qualifying position in the brackets you generally use your RT for position. In both you pick your dial in, it needs to be a number below your index or in ET a number below the minimum for Pro or super/pro. In either you can breakout. It is a handicap start based on each racers dial in. In stock if you race a car in the same class it becomes heads up in ET if you race someone with the same dial it is also heads up but no breakout. I understand the difference in builds, one is tightly controlled by rules one is run what you brung. I am planning on running this season in FS/A or FS/AA in a new Copo 350 supercharged which is why I have been reading all I can and I still see very little difference. I must be missing something please set me straight. What are the clear difference in the two that I didn't mention.

Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing
 

I couldn't afford to build a "On the edge,replace the rings/valve springs every 80 passes stocker motor" The way Michael drives I would be replacing the engine every 6 weeks. I(we) have been quite happy with our low buck stocker/bracket motor. And our ROI has never suffered because of our decision. If you zoom in on Michaels NHRA Sportsnational winner circle pic you can see the blazing fast dial of 11.55.
I know people NEVER want to hear this,but Class racing is a bracket race UNTIL you have a heads up run.