Titanium Valves in SS
 

My engine builder thinks titanium valves is the only way to go in a racing engine. David Reher had an article in National Drugstore giving the virtues of a titanium valve. Higher initial cost, but longer engine life. I think Ray Barton tried to implement a movement to get NHRA to make these legal for SS. Who would have enough clout with NHRA to get it legalized for SS? Does Del West need to put up a ton of money for Ti valves, or Manley, Ferrea??? Is there a lobby firm near Glendora that makes these changes happen? Who would we need to make the check payable?

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

Your engine builder wants to eat your wallet. A set of titanium valves from Manley or Ferrea will run $2000. The weight reduction might let the rich kids rev higher but would thin the field by raising the perceived cost to get in the game. For SS you need one piece stainless steel and nothing more.

Outside of class at the National races, SS is a dial in game. You don't need $$$$ valves to nail your dial. Imagine dumping all that cash into a motor and loosing to an aircraft mechanic who buys used parts from Jimmy DeFrank.

Good luck finding people who want to petition NHRA to legalize titanium in SS.

I built my engine. I'm on version 3 and might have it right now. I wouldn't do it any other way.

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

Works for me!

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

Too bad about what your engine builder thinks. He's merely escalating the cost, and the RPM, in a class where both are already out of control.

My cylinder head man is Jimmy Bridges, he runs SS/B with a 396 in a Corvette, he's been going as fast as anyone, and winning races, for 55+ years. Jimmy isn't asking for titanium valves, so I think we'll all get along fine without them.

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

I'm old enough to have witnessed firsthand the slow, but constant (and continuing) decline of Sportsman racing. It has long been my opinion that the prime cause for it is drag racing's own version of "Creeping Socialism". Years ago, Stockers were essentially stock and Super Stockers were Stockers with bigger back tires and any camshaft you thought would work. Then came the ported heads conflict, where cheaters got caught running at first, acid ported heads, then ground-up and re-welded heads. What was the "punishment"? Make ported heads legal. And a few bucks-down, deep-thinking, do-it-yourself racers (the founders of the sport, BTW) said "I haven't got the money for a ported heads and intake setup" and they quit or went Super Gas racing. Fast forward to 2018, and Stockers are now Super stockers with skinny back tires (like tire width matters anymore anyway, with today's tire compounds), and Super Stockers are Comp cars with small carburetors or funky, stock EFI systems. And still, the same racers who complain that the class racing is dying ask for more and more exotic and expensive technology. "Car counts are way down!" Sure they are; fewer and fewer people have $40,000 for a top-tier SS motor, and no matter how much cash you've got, you can't outspend GM, Ford and Chrysler. The reward used to be, you did your own deal and then put it up against the other guy's deal, to see who was smarter and worked harder. Nowadays, it's just a check-writing contest, with rich guys in golf shirts posing next to their store-bought Super Stock car.

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

This sums up why I was one of those stock racers who went super gas racing following retirement.
Stock in the faster classes today are just checkbook classes in today's environment in my opinion.

Just My 2 Cents
Rick in TX

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

I don’t believe it was Ray Barton, I think it was the other Hemi engine builder that was looking to get a rule change.

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

OK, thanks for the input. I'm semi retired and don't have a lot of cash. But, if it would save money in the long run (like the carnage that Spyfish posted), then I'd cough up the money to get it done. Maybe it was another Hemi engine builder (sort of forgot his name, Walcott?).

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

You nailed it dead on !

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

[QUOTE=James L Miller;556319]OK, thanks for the input. I'm semi retired and don't have a lot of cash. But, if it would save money in the long run (like the carnage that Spyfish posted), then I'd cough up the money to get it done. Maybe it was another Hemi engine builder (sort of forgot his name, Walcott?).[/QUOTE/]



That's OK; most everybody has forgotten his name. His 15 minutes of fame ended a long time ago.

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

Titanium Valves are allowed in Super Stock Class as a replacement for Sodium filled valves as long as the weight the same or more than the Sodium filled valve they are replacing.

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

While that was true once upon a time, that allowance was rescinded a long time ago IIRC. Quote from the engine section of the rulebook for SS: "Any aftermarket steel valve permitted; must maintain stock head and stem size; titanium valves prohibited."

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

[QUOTE=nhramnl;556322]He seems to be prospering in his anonymity and I am sure could give a crap about what any of us here think. One of a kind...

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

No disagreement with anything you say. I actually like him, and always have. Brilliantly talented, and as you state, totally one of a kind.

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

[QUOTE=340Cuda;556335]Hit the nail on the head. Wescott has a great business and can show up anytime in SS or comp and kick ***. I'm sure that he'll do well in Pro Stock when he's ready to play for real.

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

Baaaa thats funny Walcott !

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

[QUOTE=SSGT Mustang;556347]I agree with you 100%

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

[QUOTE=SSGT Mustang;556347]I doubt we will see Charlie running Pro Stock. He has not had that car outfit well over a year. Takes big money and lots of time. He seems to be concentrating on his business.

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

Dwight,
It is still in the 2018 Rule Book.

Super Stock, Section 12A, page 2
Cylinder Heads

Any aftermarket steel valve permitted; must maintain stock head and stem size; titanium valves prohibited. (OEM sodium-filled valve may be replaced with titanium, provided weight is equal to or greater than original.)

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

That's right, like the '68 428 CJ w/Canadian heads.

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

[QUOTE=nhramnl;556322]He sure won a whole bunch of races in 15 minutes...

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

Gosh, I read right past that! Thanks for the correction. I knew that used to be the wording to cover for the 427 Fords when the hollow stem sodium-filled valves were no longer available.

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

How does a 396 Corvette fit in SS/B? Class guide shows its natural class is SS/D.

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

When they refactored the aluminum head combination to 411 a few years back (that's 16HP over the iron head combination, which is a natural SS/D car), they allowed the aluminum head combination to move to SS/C, from SS/D.

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

Great post!

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

"The reward used to be, you did your own deal and then put it up against the other guy's deal, to see who was smarter and worked harder."


I totally agree. Was your deal ever taken apart and your technology photographed with a personal cell phone? Which could be lost at the track or placed in the cloud with a single click thanks to Steve Jobs. I had to write a letter to NHRA and my SRAC just to TRY to protect our work. Phish (now that's a pun!!)

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

Nothing truer was ever said. And the majority of it all was done to keep a certain few from filing lawsuits against the NHRA.

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

No one seems to stand up to the big NHRA or the special friends of NHRA!

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

There are a lot of those Special Friends who are protected and catered to and it is impossible to get a fair shake with those protectors in NHRA. I was told " I can do this anytime I want and if you do not like it you can go elsewhere". That is why the No Happy Racers Allowed fits so well.
My 2 Cents
Rick Cates

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

So.............. at what point in time do the "No Happy Racers" start doing what it will take to "Make Sportsman Racing Great Again"?
My money sez it'll never happen.

(that would make a great tee shirt!)

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

I agree that would make a great tee shirt.
Problem is, it is NHRA's world and we just race in it.
Racers, me included just want to race and compete and that is about all we can agree on. I am at the end of my racing career and just want to go have fun without all the hassles and the stress.
Like you Billy, I do not believe it will ever happen.
I am not sure how much longer the Sportsmen will be included at the National level as I feel we are just a distraction for NHRA at the National events now.
Just My 2 Cents

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

We will be a "distraction" for as long as we(the Sportsman Racers) pre-pay for all of the expenses or until the board of directors can figure out how to get out from under their "not-for-profit" status and "sell" us off.

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

I had 2 of my customers tell me I was getting bashed on class racer. I dont really call that bashed, I am a little tougher than that. Thanks for the kind words from a few. Truth is, I havent looked at CR in a year. It seems like mostly complaining about non issues, not really sure what I had to do with Ti valves, but I will say, thats a dumb idea in my opinion. We blew up 6 motors in a year and a half because of broken intake valves. We went to the spintron, fixed it in like 2 days, and havent broke one since. Steve Comella put 100 runs on an engine last year, I put new valves in it. As far as my PS program, its sitting here. My work load has increased alot lately (thanks Mr President), and I dont have time for much right now. I bought a new DMG mill last year, and am trying to make money with that. I dont have a problem with people that enjoy spending countless hours on the internet, to each his own, but my interests are in making things, solving problems, and putting $$ in the bank.
later,
and remember, your keyboard is never going to bring you a trophy.
cw

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

When it was adjusted to 411 in 2013 the factor changed to 7.65 which made it a natural D car as you stated. This car hasn't been able to run SS/B legally since this change but yet continues to do so.. It's a SS/C, SS/D, SS/E only car.

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

I had 2 of my customers tell me I was getting bashed on class racer. I dont really call that bashed, I am a little tougher than that. Thanks for the kind words from a few. Truth is, I havent looked at CR in a year. It seems like mostly complaining about non issues, not really sure what I had to do with Ti valves, but I will say, thats a dumb idea in my opinion. We blew up 6 motors in a year and a half because of broken intake valves. We went to the spintron, fixed it in like 2 days, and havent broke one since. Steve Comella put 100 runs on an engine last year, I put new valves in it. As far as my PS program, its sitting here. My work load has increased alot lately (thanks Mr President), and I dont have time for much right now. I bought a new DMG mill last year, and am trying to make money with that. I dont have a problem with people that enjoy spending countless hours on the internet, to each his own, but my interests are in making things, solving problems, and putting $$ in the bank.
later,
and remember, your keyboard is never going to bring you a trophy.
cw
http://classracer.com/classforum/ima...er_offline.gif My post was completely misinterpreted, but such is life. What I implied was that supposedly everybody gets 15 minutes of fame and that you've had yours. You're now below the radar, doing whatever you want to do, and in today's world, the names of celebrities (even in drag racing) get forgotten all of the time, sometimes in weeks. Christ, if that's "bashing", you've got some mighty sensitive customers. The part about liking you and admiring your skill and intelligence was also true, but unfortunately, that ship has sailed.

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

From the 2018 NHRA rulebook====NHRA-accepted aftermarket cylinder-heads carry a horsepower penalty that is calculated to the weight of the vehicle and does
not change the class of the vehicle.

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

The BB Corvettes had an aluminum head option. Always been there and it stands by itself. The head that they use is a GM head OR a GM REPLACEMENT head not an AFTERMARKET head.

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

Correct starting in 1967 with no penalty. Prior to that the GM or 401 aluminum head gets the horsepower penalty.

Where does the class guide show the 396 Corvette with a natural class of SS/C?

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

It doesn't. I didn't say that it did.

Re: Titanium Valves in SS
 

I don’t think the 65 Corvette had an aluminum head option. Looking at the classification guide the aluminum head is listed as a replacement head and the weight break is 7.67. Hard to get to 6.5.