Decisions from NHRA on Proposals
 

Attention all NHRA racers. This is the latest email I received in response to my proposals. In the end not much of anything will change. It's disappointing. If you look at his responses it is clear he and nhra talked to other racers and SRAC reps and they are scared to hit their combo and don't want the inconvenience of being torn down hence they don't want to set any records. So the racers are a big problem here not nhra. I tried and I thought I had the support of the racers but that simply wasn't the case. So there will be no incentives to run fast or set records in a performance based class because the racers themselves won't support it. Amazing.....

Ed,
Again , sorry for our delay in getting back to you on your suggestions. We really appreciate hearing from passionate racers like you. We have talked at length about your suggestions internally and with the Stock and Super Stock SRAC. Below are the results of those discussions.

Bring performance back to Stock and Super Stock through incentives
There are a couple of things that we identified that discourage racer from setting records
The Automatic Horsepower Factoring System (AHFS)
i. Racers don’t seem willing to take the hit to their combination levied by the AHFS – this is demonstrated by the fact that a high percentage of the records recently have been at National Opens like Division 4’s Belle Rose, Division 1’s Dutch Classic and Division 3’s Fall Classic. As you are aware the AHFS is not in effect during National Opens. We encourage record setting at these events and at the Dutch they are even permitted to set records on the test day.
Racers don’t want to deal with getting torn down – It is not a big deal for us to tear down cars making runs (we do it at the National Opens I just mentioned), but racers are not as apt to want their cars torn down as in the past. This is particularly true of many of the newer combinations.

We discussed your idea of points and the general consensus was that it would have too much of an impact to the National and Divisional Championships.

The group did agree that more recognition (National Dragster, Social Media etc.) could help. I will personally look into this to see what can be done.

Combining Stick and Automatics
This has been discussed at length with the Stock and Super Stock SRAC. Below is a good explanation of why it hasn’t been done from an email we recently received from one of the SRAC members that I think sums it up well:
This will be at least the third time this subject has been hashed over. As much as I would like to find a way to do that, as we have already researched, it will be impossible to arrive at a fair and equitable way to achieve that goal. From memory some indexes were close or the same and others were as much as 3 tenths difference from Sticks to Automatics. There is no way you could ask someone to carry an extra 300 pounds in their car even if the weight restriction would allow it. The only way you could run class between a Stick combo and Automatic would be with a handicap start and that would undermine the Heads-up identity of class racing. At this time without re-writing all of the current weight breaks and combinations there is no way it will work and be fair to all.

Running Class at More National and Divisional Events
While we agree with you that it would be nice to run more class but the simple answer is that it is a scheduling problem and limited by the amount of time we have at an event.

I hope that these answers are not discouraging, but I have learned over the years that Stock and Super Stock are the most complex classes we have. What seems like a simple solution to improve the class many times has a negative impact in some way that we could never imagine. Working with the Stock and Super Stock SRAC representatives from all seven divisions helps us take more of a global view on these issues and minimizes the chance that we make a bad decision for the classes. Again, we appreciate you input on these matters and if you want us to address any other issues please feel free to communicate them to either your division SRAC representative or myself.


Regards
Glen Gray
NHRA
Vice President Technical Operations




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Re: Decisions from NHRA on Proposals
 

Thank you for all the hard work and dedication, Ed.
I had intended to address the findings from my recent poll, yesterday.
I did get side tracked and didn't get it done but I would have looked very prophetic today.
I'll wrap that up later.

Re: Decisions from NHRA on Proposals
 

Very considerate answers from the tech department. Looks like NHRA did their homework on the proposals. Like it or not, their research shows there is currently no need for major changes in Stock and S/S.

Re: Decisions from NHRA on Proposals
 

The majority said no and I can live with that. I put out some ideas and the racers didn't want it. So we move on.........Now us stick guys can go back to losing all the time like one auto guy put it.......oh wait didn't Brad go to the final Sunday??? What a duck he is.....

Re: Decisions from NHRA on Proposals
 

Ed, thank you so much for your time and effort in trying to help us.

Re: Decisions from NHRA on Proposals
 

Any reason not to run time trials using the index or dial?
Any reason not to print the national records in ND?

I always enjoy the pictures from Patsy and Ken but it occurred to me that is hard to tell who is who. I've been a racer or a fan since the early '60s. In those days it was easy to tell who was racing and everyone had a favorite from Monster Mash to the Ramchargers. It's hard to be a fan if you can't identify the racer. I understand that lots just want a plain car with decals for the money, but don't expect anyone to leave the concession stand to see you race.
Pete

Re: Decisions from NHRA on Proposals
 

Can anyone argue against this?
Really seems like a smart idea...
Mike A114

Re: Decisions from NHRA on Proposals
 

This was hashed out a while back, in fact I was still active and I sold my stuff in 2010. The reason they gave was the time factor of the difference in index's. It would have cut into the schedule. Going way back that was the reason the tree became 3 bulbs instead of 5. Remember, to NHRA time is money.

Re: Decisions from NHRA on Proposals
 

Thanks Ed
I'm not sure I agree with their explanation
The slow car leaves first, and that's the one you have to wait for.
It s easier for tower folks, because they don't have to set the tree, but its anti-climactic for anyone watching.
It just seems to me, like an easy way to add some intrigue.
Mike A114

Re: Decisions from NHRA on Proposals
 

Ed,
I remember the explanation but it didn't hold water then and it doesn't now. Someone is entering names or numbers. I don't know how the system works but the indexes are on the score board. I think it is a matter of changing one switch to set it on index as opposed to leaving at the same time.
Doesn't seem like a lot of work to make it better for both fans and racers.
Pete

Re: Decisions from NHRA on Proposals
 

Ed,

I was pleased that your proposals received the attention and serious consideration that they deserved.

I think a lot of that was because of the professional way you presented your ideas.

Thanks!
Bill Lamb

Re: Decisions from NHRA on Proposals
 

Essentially, cartoonist Walt Kelly (Pogo) was correct in his description of this and many other similar outcomes as long ago as 1970.

"We have met the enemy and he is us!"

Rock on!!

c

Re: Decisions from NHRA on Proposals
 

^^ I agree with the above.

Re: Decisions from NHRA on Proposals
 

I wondered last year why the National Records page in National Dragster disappeared.

Yet there are full page black and white size pics of cars from the 60's published to take up space. :confused:

Re: Decisions from NHRA on Proposals
 

Your proposal was great and it gives you a idea of where class racing in NHRA stands today. Unfortunately the major players want to keep it a bracket race. I am sure NHRA spoke with the racers that attend 10 or more events a year (these are the racers that pay the NHRA salaries) and asked their opinion and that is how the decision came down.

I was involved with a comp eliminator team that stopped racing because of the personal index institution and the racers that pushed for the personal index rule were the ones that were members of a 2 or 3 car team which allowed drivers to switch cars in season and use a index that is .10 slower than the previous driver not the car. Think about that

Re: Decisions from NHRA on Proposals
 

As someone who built a business from the performance side of Stock and Super Stock i am very much for bringing that aspect back into what we do. I feel it has slowly slipped away. Please forgive me if this has already been touched one, but has anyone thought of talking with the SRAC before we talk to NHRA about this? They are the ones who should be fighting for what we want. I think it would be important to get them on board first and make sure we even have some sort of backing.

Just a thought.

Re: Decisions from NHRA on Proposals
 

The information that has trickled in to me is that some of SRAC reps are the one who don't want any of it.

Re: Decisions from NHRA on Proposals
 

Not throwing stones at all, but are the SRAC reps making decisions based on the voice of the RACER? I’m sure it is a difficult situation to be in and hard not to have some “self bias” mixed in!

I’m not even sure who the SRAC reps are? Are summaries of the discussions posted somewhere?

Nick

Re: Decisions from NHRA on Proposals
 

You nailed it Chuck !

Re: Decisions from NHRA on Proposals
 

"Racers don’t want to deal with getting torn down – It is not a big deal for us to tear down cars making runs (we do it at the National Opens I just mentioned), but racers are not as apt to want their cars torn down as in the past. This is particularly true of many of the newer combinations."

Well NO ****!!! When have racers ever WANTED to be torn down. Why should we continue to acquiesce to the people with "newer combinations" who with a few exceptions probably couldn't tear their stuff down themselves if their life depended on it. Go race TS, SG, SC, or SST (with all due respect to these racers) if you don't want to prove the legality of your car. Some of us rather enjoy getting our hands dirty in our jeans and T-Shirts rather than entertaining our buddies with craft beer dressed in designer apparel.

I'm sick and tired of S/SS being administrated on the basis of "customer surveys" where only privilege or fame gets you input. It would appear the "well heeled" or "well connected" are the sole arbiters of what NHRA does or doesn't do in S/SS. The rest of us can eat the mud we usually are parked in.

How much prestige is really left in qualifying if, say for the U.S. Nationals, many of the "qualifiers" could be as illegal as the day is long because they can get away with it with impunity. Not very much! If I were among the first "non qualifiers" with a legal entry I'd wonder how many bogus ones got in with out even a chance of being caught. Class Winners should be the FIRST priority of who gets in the show. Period! These are PERFORMANCE Classes. Reward Class PERFORMANCE 1st! If someone has a V/SA that runs -.60 under to defeat another V/SA they should be in the Show. Not some Country Club racer who buys his way in with a soft indexed "newer combination" that can't win Class but goes just fast enough to bump out the V/SA Class Winner. Total BULL****!! AFTER the Class Winners it's the fastest qualifiers of non Class winners and prodigious random tear downs to insure a fair playing field. If there's better odds you'll get caught you might think twice about blatant cheating.

The SCRA is a bad joke as far as I'm concerned. Former reps have told me it's like pissing into the wind.
Things keep going the way they are S/SS will mean Shoe Polish/Super Shoe Polish.