D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

This is off topic but I figured that some of the racers here may remember this little known factory super stock option Dodge from 1966.

I run a website dedicated to gathering both the history and present day whereabouts of the 50 D/Darts made in 1966. It is at http://www.seriousviewers.com/D-Dart/ddart.htm
There you can find how to ID one of the D/Darts. These were factory modified cars with unique SS VIN's rather than the standard HP Darts.

We have ID'd the names of about 8 of them as raced in 1966-1967. About 9 or so have been found present day. Three of them are shown as they are today.
I also interviewed some of the owners and drivers.

I have a long way to go to find or ID the original 50 so any help you can offer would be appreciated.
I can use anything you remember about these cars. Stories, old photos, names of the cars as raced, new photos, etc.

To save space on this message board you can contact me from my website email link at the bottom of the first page.

Thanks.
Alan

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

You might want to post the same questions at www.moparts.com
That site is a good source of Mopar related info.

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

I see no problem with bringing up these cars here. After all, they are a part of Stock Eliminator history! In fact, I can't think of a single car that was purposely built for Stock class. Anybody?
I always thought those were neat (although ugly) packages. I see you have the cam duration listed at 284 but what about the lift? Per the NHRA tech sheet (this engine is still listed, see www.nhra.com) it was .504"I / .514" E. Combined with the factory installed headers and 4.89:1 rear gears, they surely were screamers right off the delivery truck!
FYI, NHRA no longer has any requirements on camshaft engineering other than lift measured at the valve. NHRA shows the carb as a Holley 3778 list number. The specs aren't listed on NHRA.com which MAY open the door for "future development" of the package. The following cylinder head castings are now listed by NHRA as acceptable: 2465315,2658920,2843675,3671585,3769973,4323302. I would bet one of these castings flows better than the factory installed head. MOPAR racers could help with that answer.
I know of one but am not sure it was a factory package or converted "clone" back in the day. Owned by Mike Donolly it was raced as "The Pirate". Mike once owned / operated Phoenix Raceway Park during the late 70's thru mid-late 80's I believe. He now is retired in Ca. and I believe he still owns the car. I'll see if I can track him down and will get whatever info he has for you.

OK, after typing all this I went to NHRA's class guide. I found out this is now a Super Stock package only. Still rated at 275 HP. Probably, no definately in dire need of a HP reduction. Falls into 10.71 weight break for SS/I as a 2dr hardtop or 11.11 weight break for SS/J as a convertible (yes, NHRA says it's allowable). Well we know that SS/I is well into the 9 second times and SS/J is just touching the 9's so yes, it would definetly need some major HP reductions by NHRA. How much, I have no idea. The 235 HP engine has only been reduced -5 in SS for 230 NHRA HP and is down to 220 NHRA HP in Stock. My off-the-cuff guess would be for SS racing the engine needs to be 235 HP as the only thing the 275/273 has on a 235/273 is a larger (?) Holley carb in lieu of the Carter carb. As you may or may not know, factory headers and factory big cams mean nothing in SS class as these area's are wide open for improvements anyways. I know the 390 Ford can have a small Holley or a larger Holley (+135 CFM) with no NHRA HP penalty so maybe the D-Dart with Holley should be no different and should be rated as the 235/273 ~ NHRA rated @ 230 HP?
Paul Wong...could be a good combo for you???

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Jeff,
On the D-Dart, Just what is allowed.
They were originally built as Dart GT 2-door sedan only.
4-speed only car.
Built for D/S in 1966 only, not Super/Stock, though it came equipped with a Super/Stock package (by Chryslers info) it was really just a
bolt-on Stocker package.
What should this car's HP rating be????
At #2941 lbs. not 275HP
HiPo

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

There've been several threads on here about the D-Darts and rightfully so, as it's an interesting car and part of 'factory' super stock history.

Matt Steen out of Minnesota runs a D-Dart stick car, but not sure what rating; he'd have good input on the HP rating...

Has anybody else other than Steen really raced this combo???

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Don,
NHRA's stock car classification guide really limits this combo.
1) Still over-rated HP at 275.
2) Manual only
3) Super/Stock only
4) They list the engine with a convertible Dart also, but they never came through that way.
* You would think they would allow an automatic in this car, and allow the
66' Barracuda/Valiant to utilize this Dodge combo, and run a re-factored HP
in Stock class,
* Just who would it hurt.
PC

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Alan,
Welcome to Classracer.

Just thought I'd give you an update ...... the guy that bought my "other" D/Dart found and bought another one. It was set up and run as a road racer. I think it was only campaigned in the 1966 since the odo has only 514 miles on it. The guy sent me a photos of the car, the VIN plate and fender tag and it is a true D/Dart. The last three of the VIN are 920.

The other Alan

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Matt's car is actually a Valiant and he runs the 235/210 (I think) 273 combination not the 275 HP combo.

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

NHRA 273/235HP Ratings

273/235HP,,,Re-rated to 210HP for Stock (Was 220HP)
273/235HP,,,Re-rated to 230HP for Super/Stock

273/275HP,,1966 D-Dart (275HP for Super/Stock only)
Note" Bizzaro-World; Car was built for D/S in 1966 (10.60-11.29 wt/hp)
It was never intended or built for Super/Stock. The Dodge built package was just called a 66 Super/Stock Package. (In name only)
In 1966, the only Super/Stock class was either S/S or S/SA, for the 64'/65' Race Hemi's.
Matt Steen's car is a 66' V-100 273/235HP SS/K.

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

The car I run is a 66 valiant post 273/235 Currently rated at 230, needs to be at 220. The quest to go faster made me consider the 275hp combo and run gt in my car. With just a carb change it apealed to me, so I did some dyno testing with the 700 holley and some cam changes to try and make the most of the carb swap and found it to be only worth about 30-35 hp. The jump to gt would be .5 sec quicker index [ if I did the math correctly ] and 35hp dousn't equal .5 sec.

Matt

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Matt,
Your 66' is a nice Super/Stocker.
A friend is toying with the idea of running a 65' V-200
273/235HP (210HP re-factor) in stock.
A little lighter car by about 100lbs.
Unless NHRA does what you said, change to 220HP in S/S.
The 66' D-Dart engine over-rated at 275HP, should be re-factored also, to maybe 240HP for S/S.
NHRA should look into that engine combo, re-factor it, and allow it for
66' A-Body Mopars across the board.
Paul

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Thanks Paul, the 210hp in stock does make the combo a bit better. I'll be brushing up on my letter writing skills to NHRA after the nats at Brainerd for a 10hp discount.

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

OK,

Let's say the NHRA decides to let me run the D/Dart in stock. Besides the HP change what changes can I make to the package to make it competitive and what special pieces do I need?....intake, carb, etc?

JimR

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Jim,
I think the only way the D-Dart engine 275HP would be competitive, is if they re-rated it to 245HP for stock. Where it really should be.
It would put the 66 Dart (#2942 lbs.) into the 12.00-12.49 wth/hp (I/S).

Holley carb #4160 700cfm (1 11/16" x 1 11/16") and the Cam-Craft
.495/.505 w/282* duration camshaft didn't make that 275HP.
I think Mother Mopar (Dodge Boys) fudged the HP rating a little
back in 66', to get it into D/S (10.60-11.29 wt/hp).
One wonders, if they properly rated it at 250HP (back in the day),
what it would have done in E/Stock (11.30-11.88 wt/hp)
pc

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Paul,

No doubt they fudged the HP just as they did with the 426/365 combo. If the NHRA let it run STK and dropped the HP to 240 would it be competitive in stock with the stock heads and the stock intake or would it need superceded heads and manifold in order to compete?

Can we build one one paper here that would be competitive?

JimR

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Jim R,
The 275HP D-Dart engine combo would only be competitive if the
HP was re-factored to 240HP.
The cast iron intake (carb holes) would have to be bored out to
1 11/16" (primary and secondary), to suit the Holley.
It would be worth a shot, for stock only.
For Super/Stock, as Matt said, 'Take a pass on that combo'.

Too bad Mopar didn't stay with their original 1966 idea.
273/180HP 2-barrel
273/200HP 4-barrel
273/225HP 4-barrel Commando
273/240HP 4-barrel Commando II
273/255HP 4-barrel (E-Dart)
pc

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

I'd LOVE to build a '67 Valiant with Matt's 273-235/230 (220???) combo for SS/L. Gotta check the lottery tickets !!!!

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Todd,
If your 67' project doesn't go through.
I know where there is a 1965 V-200 4-door sedan.
An original 273/235HP Commando 4-speed.
One of the few 'special order' order cars for the
New York City Taxi Commision, back in late 65'
All black, w/black interior.
Car is hiding in the back of a junk-yard in Columbia County , New York.
100% original and complete.
Been sitting there since 1973.
pc

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Hmmmmm....a four door Valiant Super Stocker ....????? I actually have to build my E/SA '69 340 Dart first, but thanks Paul.

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Todd,
The Dart is a little better looking:).
Maybe the V-200 4-door would work better for a late-nite sleeper car.
pc

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Yes Paul the Dart is a bit better looking, but I'd love to do the '67 Valiant SSer in some wild colour or paint scheme...

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Todd,
Never saw to many 67' Valiant 273 Commando's running around back in the late 60's or early 70's.
As a matter of fact, I only saw one, in K/SA in 70'/71'.
Always thought that was a 'cool' project car.
Done up, those cars look 'nice'.
pc

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Paul,

I bought a '67 Barracuda Coupe with the 273/235 and 4 speed in pieces from a guy in Texas....all original but the engine was apart and it had a trunk full of speed parts. Unfortunately the Army decided to send me to Germany and I had to sell it. Wish I hadn't.

Didn't one of the defunct Mopar magazines buy a '67 Valiant with the 273/235 and 4 sp and ripped it all apart as a project car or was it a Dart?

JimR

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Jim R,
Can't remember.
Do remember one them wasting there time re-building a 318
for a Valiant., to get it to run 13.90's.
All that time and effort wasted. Easier to drop in a 340.
PC

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Maybe you are thinking of the "Green Brick" Valiant?

http://www.moparaction.com/Article/B...reenBrick.html

http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/arch...e-lap-pix.html

http://www.rancefi.com/flying_green_brick_page.htm

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Paul,

I'm curious.

What was in Chrysler's mind when they created the 273 ci? It is an interesting motor. If the corporation needed a small displacement motor, why one with its particular specs (fairly long stroke for that ci, long rod, small bore, overall small ci)?

A friend of mine had a 273 ci Commando back in the day, and I've always been curious about them, but the upcoming 340 ci soon made a bigger splash...

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Myron,

It wasn't the Brick because I distinctly remember the magazine going under before the car was anywhere near complete. They took out the original drive despite it's rarity and were building it with another small block.

I'll find some time to look through my collection and find out.

JimR

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Jim, one of the special pieces you need is the intake. The D-Dart intake manifold is a single plane identical to the Chrysler 318 marine intake manifold.

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Economics. Same crank & rods they had been using for years (318 stuff). Bore was small enough to get the displacement in the range they were targeting while still being able to use the 318 heads. Very few new pieces they had to engineer.

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

The 'LA' engine 283/180HP was to be the plain-jane V-8 for the
A-body's.
Chrysler had to make a lighter engine for the #2700 lb. cars, and the early 318's were much too heavy.
3.61 x 3.31 bore/stroke = 273c.i. is much in line with the
general small blocks of the day, but it did limit Mopar on optional
performance applications.
The 273 4-barrel 235HP Commando which came in 1965, was in direct response from 1964 A-body car purchasers who were
dissappointed in the 273/180HP performance.
In the 235HP range, it was competitive with the 283/230HP Chevy and 289/225HP Ford, in stock format.
Biggest draw-back, 4-bolt pattern cylinder head mounting, and the
small bore 3.61 limited up-grades to the cylinder head valve train.
It was simply what it was, a good low-to-mid range torque car.
paul

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Mopar Action had Steve Magnante working for them in 1997 when he built his '67 Hemi Dart street machine. The Dart was an original 273/235 and I can't remember if it was a stick or an automatic. The Hemi had a Torqueflite and there were minimal modifications (hacking) done to the car. It was a reddish-orange two-door sedan with black vinyl top in case that's the car someone remembers.

I don't remember the defunct magazine's buildup but I'd like to find out more if anyone has any info. Maybe Steve worked for the soon-to-be-defunct mag when the build started and it was completed in MA???

Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option
 

Actually, the intake is P/N 2536771 which came on the W/CAP engines. Both of the D/Darts that I've owned had this intake on them. The holes for the throttle plates are the size of the Carter AFB's. They were not modifies for the Holley. So, the adapter plate has the large holes for the Holley, but the intake doesn't. It make no sense to me as to why they did this.

The hardest parts to find are the carb and air cleaner. The Holley carb is -- List 3778. It was a special carb just for the D/Dart. It's not even listed on the Holley website. The air cleaner is also special built. It's impossible to find either of these parts. The carb to intake adapter was manufactured in house. You can see the band saw marks on the edge of the adapter. Pretty crude.