Stockers....buttons.....check This Out
 

HERE IS YOUR CHANCE TO VOTE EVERYONE, BE SURE TO INCLUDE YOUR CAR OR MEMBERSHIP NUMBER!!!!!


Further use of buttons questioned in Stock eliminator

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9/10/2007


In July of this year, the NHRA Tech Department stated that it would begin the process of reviewing and considering only selected mechanical-type buttons for use in Super Stock and Comp Eliminator. While NHRA will soon release finalized acceptance parameters for the mechanical buttons, the use of any such buttons in Stock eliminator is now under review.

After NHRA announced its intent to restrict the use of buttons to only selected mechanical types in Super Stock and Comp Eliminator, many Stock category racers have voiced their opinions to do away with the two-step button in Stock completely or permit the use of a two step button activated by the clutch or break pedal only. Therefore, the NHRA Tech Department is asking current Stock Eliminator racers to submit their opinions on the following issues:

1- Eliminate the use of buttons and two-steps in Stock Eliminator

2- Allow the use of buttons and two-steps as pedal activated only

An approved button would still be permitted in either case for use with NHRA acceptable line-locks only.

Racers are asked to submit their opinions to racerinput@nhra.com.


JEFF DAY
3731

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Thanks for the heads up. I am happy to have a chance to voice my opinion finally!

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The one thing I can't really follow on the two step is that you can only have a line lock on the front brakes ( or rear of a fwd) and not on both. I have run a two step for years ( 3 carbs really a problem tuning) and there is no way I could ever hold the car at the line while wide open on the two step with only the front brakes. I have had two steps on my trucks when I ran them, on my Top Stock cars and none them could we hold at the line without the brakes jammed to the floor just hold the car at the line. Easy enough to check brake lines. I must be missing something here. I'm sure somebody is gonna enlighten me.

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Jeff,
I know for a fact with a low RPM chip and a real loose convertor you can do it with a chevy. Back in the late 80's and early 90's we delay box raced that way.

I also heard IHRA was checking for the 2step linelock tie in at the last couple of races and found several that were cheating, including one racer that had just won a divisional. They were told to fix it and if caught again they would be bounced.

Chip Johnson

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>> I also heard IHRA was checking for the 2step linelock tie in at the last couple of races and found several that were cheating, including one racer that had just won a divisional.

I KNEW IT! That Myron not only beats women, but he cheats, too! ;) :p LOL

Didn't IHRA fuss at a couple of guys about having them tied together a couple of years ago?

Too bad Myron footbrakes, because it'd be fun just to get him riled up. ;)

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Jeff, Dual rear calipers, MW or Lamb

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:D:p

Less electronics/wiring = less opportunity for "manipulation".

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NO Electronics!!! Footbrake only!

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Daran I agree with you 100% no electronics what so ever, foot brake only. It's time we round up the herd and get back in the barn {back to basic stock grass roots}

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How about any button you want and a .500 pro tree.

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Tommy....GREAT IDEA...I said it a long time ago! And give the stick cars electro-magnet clutch pedals! Bring back deepstaging for the slow cars...That way nobody will bitch!

Mr. Day...I didnt know that buttons had become such a huge issue in the NBRA...Where was your last NHRA race...(Drag race central doesnt show you, nor autoimagery)

Piatek...Stay on your side of the racing community!

Dual rear calipers wont do any good 2-stepin unless your tryin to hold a car a 4500 rpm, and you deffinatly wont want to stab the brakes with dual rear...You still have to hold the brake pedal...And i was to the understanding that the 2-step couldnt be wired to a line-loc, not even a 2 wheel!

Now all this post is missing is Ed! He can screw anything up!

Sincerely,

Stockracer
(No-name, No-name Punk, No-name Basher, Stock-wannabe-racer, Coward, Benchracer, Speedracers brother, and many more to come Im sure)

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I don't think a line lock is legal on rwd cars on the rear axle. Easy enough to check. Items 4 & 5 under "Brakes" in the rule book in Stock Eliminator.

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I have been running a "two-step" for over 10 years, but I have to agree with most of the other posting on here, that we should do away with them.

Running a two-step just opens the door for electronic cheating, if the good racers will not be affected by the elimination of the "buttons", then good for them. Why do we need "Buttons" anyway??

I ran a 4 speed car for years and did just as poorly as I have with an automatic, so thats not a reason for "Buttons"

If you want to leave with a "button", put another "S" on your window and run SS.

Or let everyone have a button.......as long as its not connected to anything, that way everyone will be happy.

R J Sledge

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Stockracer,
September 2004 Columbus, Ohio Divisional. My one and only NHRA experience. What is your name and car number, and what was your last race with NHRA?
With our business, I simply can't afford to miss as much work as it takes to run a NHRA schedule. IHRA is much more schedule friendly for me, and I also enjoy it much more than I did at Columbus in 2004.
This issue also concerns IHRA, which will probably follow whatever NHRA does with this. Notice in my post that I put be sure to include your car and membership number. That way, NHRA could see if the input is from their members, which I do belong to also.

By the way Stockracer, please enlighten me as to what NBRA stand for? I can't wait to hear this one.



.500 pro tree and any button? How about Hot Rod or Super Street, they already use that!

I just wonder if NHRA will get the same response to this issue as this board has over the last year. If so, it should be about 80% against buttons, from what I see here. Hope it happens. I can't wait to see the results on the track.

Jeff Day

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I think I heard about your Columbus experience...How was tech? Oh and check out the other board...40% keep it the way it is...38% no buttons...22% Only pedal operated switch!

And for the NBRA, Its the greatest racing assoc. ever, No one ever looses a race!

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>> I didnt know that buttons had become such a huge issue in the NBRA...

Assuming that you're talking about bracket racing, buttons are not an issue. The north and west is all No-Box (transbrake/2step like Super Stock), and the south/southeast is all Footbrake. In Footbrake, somehow, amazingly, we can race without 2-steps, and we even let people deep stage, and it's not a big deal.

>> Piatek...Stay on your side of the racing community!

Huh. I wasn't aware that a community had sides... As Jeff pointed out, a decision by NHRA with input from NHRA racers typically trickles down to IHRA, so the discussion is quite relevant to "those other racers".

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This is the only button NHRA should allow...
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/3...ybuttonvm1.jpg

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As far as 2 steps and line locks go,

Couldnt you put the button for the 2 step and the button for the line lock real close together and push them at the same time? Or just take a plate that covers both of them so they activate at the same time?

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Jeff Day,
Don't let Stockracer get to you. You know that your position on this subject is valid. Stockracer is a Raving homosexual that chimes in on reasonable conversation to stir up ignorance and hate! Buttons in stock are like penis extensions (real men have NO need)! Louis Jeffery IHRA Stock 3225.

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NHRA rules are usually adopted by IHRA, and the button controversey is the same "here". We can't vote on the NHRA poll but we can certainly express out views on this forum. So I'm not "staying" anywhere. :p

Besides, who says I won't try the other "side" some day! ;)

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Great, can you find an NHRA race somewhere this weekend, Myron? ;) LOL

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I'm for getting rid of all of the buttons! Oh, I also did a search on www.dragracecentral.com and could not find a single listing for Stock Racer. No real name = no credibility in my book.

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HAHA....My no name has as much credibility as some of these guys real names...If some one who doesnt race it can have an opinion, so can I... You guys get all wound up over the truth!

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I was going to........:p.........but there are no divisionals anywhere and I would have had a problem with those NHRA grading points at Memphis, TN this weekend. Oh well! :( Maybe I'll stop in and say "Hi!" in Jackson. ;)

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I don't have a problem with people other than drivers posting their opinion, however, the response lacks credibility without a real name...particularly when the author takes "pot shots" at real people using their real names.

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Myron,
Forget it. I'm coming to Jackson this weekend with the sole purpose of DIVING for Michael Beard.

OOPs wrong thread.

Seriously as I stated before Either NO BUTTONS; or allow Delay boxes.

Hefler,
thats a good post how many of these STOCKRACER types have never thought of that. Daddy always said more than one way to skin a cat.
Chip Johnson

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Well, we don't need ANOTHER delay box class. Although the adjustable buttons are along the same lines, in my opinion.


It's a shame a good racer like Beard has to rely on such tactics! He better hope I don't get to you first! :)lol
(That was too easy! :p)

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MYRUN,
I think what you meant was You hoped I don't get to you first.

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Maybe you're right. I hope you don't get to me first.
People might think you're diving for me too!!! :p:D

(Maybe we shoulda did this trash talk on the Jackson thread instead of getting off topic on this important one! :( )

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Chip's idea of a dive was being .011 and taking .001 stripe on me at Piedmont this weekend. :eek: With friends like that.... ;)

It's funny how 'majority rule' can have more effect than logic. Most people don't deep stage, so it was easily "voted out" (or at least driver input was used as an excuse for getting rid of it.) Many folks said, "Stock is a performance class, so there should be no deep staging." Well, what Stocker "needs" a 2-step? Every automatic Stocker out there can be footbraked. I feel that the discussion goes hand-in-hand with the whole E-Shift discussion. I feel it behooves class racing to have two totally distinct categories: Stock for no electronics, and Super Stock for transbrakes, 2-steps, and automated shifters.

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I kept watching and thinking until Michael broke the ice...

Why worry about a button when the car next to you has a automatic shifter...

If we say that the button racer is legal, no boxes, etc. in this argument, I feel it is a little more consistant. I raced my stocker with and without a button. With good adjustable shocks and blocking the tree, I was very consistant (at times) with the button. More so than with just the brake and gas.

But how much more of an advantage is an auto shifter...? Especially low gear three speed trans! First gear with a metric and 5.13's comes quick! Wheels in the air, or just settling, and with the 305, missing a shift just a little really changed the et. If one can play, let them all play... is it a safety thing? like the add in dragster says! I do not think so, but thats just my opinion.

I feel there are bigger fish to fry.

Good luck to all.

Ken

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I personally dont think if it was 1000 to 1 against 2 steps that Nhra/Ihra will change anything.....as an opinion, I think this is just a gester to make racers think they have a say so,,,,,Im with chip,,,,get them gone or give stockers the delay box

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I agree with you Myron!

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If ya going to use the "cheater" flag here, how does that stand up to logic? Nobody's been caught lately and nobody is stupid enough to try cause it's way too easy to detect.

Button users still foot brake.

Two steps will not go away, the horse is out of the corral !!!!!!!

How about the blinder guys, what they're doing is changing the face of full tree racing and there's no complaints?

There's plenty to bitch about, pick a more important subject. Just cause ya can't win rounds doesn't mean the system is broke, this is not a lottery !!!!!!!!!!!

Don't be afraid of the red-light, try harder!
B

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Bernie,
They have been caught in IHRA and were let off with a warning. This year I might add. I don't two-step and have won races. I don't think the cream of the crop is cheating either, but it only takes 1 person that has the balls to do it that changes the outcome of the whole season.
Chip

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A little birdie told me regardless of the poll buttons are gone! Tech does not have the time to trace wires on 180 stockers at Indy. Myron is not allowed in NHRA Sorry :)

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>> If ya going to use the "cheater" flag here, how does that stand up to logic?

Personally, I don't. To me, it's more about a style of racing. Again, I think it's important to not blur the lines between Stock and Super Stock.

>> Button users still foot brake.

Great, so they don't need them. :D

>> Two steps will not go away, the horse is out of the corral !!!!!!!

I don't believe that. You could pencil out two-steps today, and every Stocker in the country could race this weekend with no problem. It's less of a change to racer's programs than when they did away with deep staging. It's my opinion that E-shift should be nipped in the bud now, too.

>> How about the blinder guys, what they're doing is changing the face of full tree racing and there's no complaints?

Two steps are an important part of blinder racing for many racers. Dealing with one marginally affects the other's effectiveness. We don't need Duck Tape on the windshield (there's plenty of other places for Duck Tape!), but there's nothing wrong with a sunvisor, in my opinion. I suck at 'flash' racing, so I haven't even bothered trying it.

>> There's plenty to bitch about, pick a more important subject.

It is an important subject, and there's no reason that it can't be discussed at the same time as thirty other important topics. Let's multi-task. ;)

>> Just cause ya can't win rounds doesn't mean the system is broke

Yeah... I don't think that argument holds up, as there are at least four National and/or World Champions participating in this discussion.

I think the argument should be, "Stock eliminator should (or should not) allow 2-steps because..." Everything else is BS...

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How do you foot brake with a stick car? You dont! Take the 2step away and the stick car is screwed while the automatic car is not. What do I mean? The stick car is going to be free wheeling and the auto is not, it will be very hard to run the rpms up to 5500rpm and hold there and still look at the tree. Why dont all of you auto guys just say get rid of the stick cars too! I got one if you get rid of 2steps lets get rid of stall converters too and make you guys run the factory stall speed converters that are around 1700rpm! Would all of you auto guys like that, NO. So I dont like the idea of getting rid of 2steps. FLAME AWAY DUDES! TREVOR WEISS B/S 2891 STOCK

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I think they should be allowed in Stick cars only. That makes it simple if you cant race with out a 2 step get a stick in your car.

As far as e-shift as a safety device that is a joke.

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I have no problem with the stick guys having one. They still gotta shift more times than me.
Chip