Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
Let me start off by saying this has been the feeling of many Ford production car and Cobra Jet owners.....
To the administrator of Classracer.com, I am sorry. The last time I made a post like this the "drag race manager" of Ford Performance pulled their long term sponsorship from this site because he took it personally. He has no regards for what this site does for Cobra Jet owners as well as the benefit it provides to Ford Performance vehicle and parts sales. The air kit for the 2013-2014 Cobra Jet 5.0L NA engine combination was NHRA approved through the old Ford Performance drag race manager, Jesse Kershaw. An owner of a 2014 Cobra Jet had contacted Ford Performance for one and Ford Performance said they were unavailable. So we had contacted a Cobra Jet owner who had one but was not using it. It was being shipped to us, and the current Ford Performance drag racing manager went out of his way to put a stop to it. His reasoning, one of his buddies that he gets FREE parts from could not get one before we received it. So if he couldn't have it then he didn't want us to have it either. I contacted the manufacturer of the original part and they contacted the Ford Performance drag race manager and he said they would not authorize the part to be reproduced until AFTER Indy. I have an email as proof backing up these claims. Instead of helping a Cobra Jet win, he allowed the other manufacturers to run away with the class. Most of the Fastest Cobra Jet's out there are still running the factory computer system. In fact one of the Cobra Jet owners who's invested probably the most into his car, First 8 second stock eliminator. He asked Mike the "drag race manager" if he could get help from Ford with getting more RPM out of his computer. Mike told him that it would not be a problem and would help out. Despite repeated attempts to get an answer and almost a year later Mike has not given any help. Charlotte, NC NHRA I was proud to pilot the prototype Cobra Jet code named "M02." With the New FGT classes I made the car a candidate for #1 Qualifier. With rain over the weekend it cancelled class and made the car class winner based on qualifying times. The Ford Performance "drag race manger" would not recognize the #1 qualifier because he said the car was cheating and in the wrong class. The car was tech'd in by Dave Ley. So I went back to Dave, he confirmed the math on the weight and engine combination to be legal. I have the original tech card and the weights of the car from the whole weekend. Two weeks from then was the Dutch classic and to prove the car was legal I intended to set a national record with it and go through tear down. NHRA agreed to seal the motor. The car owner then got a notice from Mike the Ford Performance "drag racing manager" stating that because the car was prototype it was not legal to race. Ending all chances of setting a national record and me proving him wrong. NOTE: *M01 is owned by a reputable Cobra Jet builder who has set a national record. Mike likes him though so it makes this car "OK" to race at NHRA events.... After all of this I contacted Mike on his cell phone. He told me that this is what I get for "poking the bear" on the 2013-2014 Air kits because I went over his head to his boss. He did this all as a personal vendetta. This is not Mike's first time using his position for personal gains. A few months back said "drag race manager" took a popular competition legal stock eliminator Cobra Jet engine combination off the books. He sent an email to NHRA saying please take the 5.4L with 4.0L Supercharger engine combination out of competition for the showdown class. The combination is still approved for Stock Eliminator however, he can't take that away. NHRA had to listen because it was "FORD" saying they did not want the combination in the books. Even though it was legal, deemed by NHRA, and was on the books for almost 3 weeks! Meanwhile many Cobra Jet owners already started investing a lot of money to use the particular combination in shoot out! I have no idea why the current Ford Performance "drag racing manager" wouldn't want to use all his tools in the tool shed and possibly add another 10+ Cobra Jets to the showdown class which is being dominated by GM and Mopar. There was a big push by the older Cobra Jet owners to be able to run in the showdown class. So Mike the Ford Performance "drag racing manager" sent out an elaborate email to the older CJ owners that everybody has a copy off and he claimed to send to NHRA. After 3 months of not hearing anything the Cobra Jet owners contacted NHRA and NHRA contacted Mike and said they were willing to listen to the new options to which Mike said "Ford is no longer interested" even NHRA told me they didn't understand why he was doing that. All of these claims are based off facts, verified by emails from NHRA, higher ups at Ford Motor Company, and various CJ owners. I was told to deal with Mike's direct boss who has been since let go from Ford Motor Company. So I contacted someone inside Ford who I thought was interested with Ford's Performance on the race track and he no longer holds his position. So the current Ford Performance drag race manager has held his position for less than 2 years and in that time he has alienated people that have been loyal to Ford for over 30 years and has spent was more money with Ford than he can imagine. To add insult to injury for all Cobra Jet owners, at Gainesville this year he had made it seem like he had the new air kit for the 2016 Cobra Jet's approved for NHRA and the fact was he never even spoke to him about it. So when the Showdown class Cobra Jets showed up they had to take their air kits off their cars because Mike never got them approved by NHRA. This is an ego driven sport otherwise we wouldn't be spending this much money. Mike poked the wrong bear this time with his comments on FS/D class. Jim D'Amore |
Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
This sounds like a Hollywood script, but I don't think anyone could even make that up.
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What is this "air kit" that you've referenced Jim?
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give them hell Jim. I am a Ford Performance WD and the whole department seems to be falling apart. I cannot get emails answered about credits and other issues. They do not seem to be as concerned about the Cobra Jet program as they should be and the performance shows it.
Roland |
Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
I'm thinking this thread belongs about three doors down the hall...
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I have examined the part in question before. It was 2 pieces of 5" aluminum tubing welded together with one end formed to the shape of the throttle body, the exterior weld ground smooth, beads rolled on the ends to help keep it in place, black crinkle powder coated, no identifying numbers/marks on it anywhere. Seems to be easily enough duplicated.
Most of the fastest CJs run the OEM PCM? Maybe I missed something somewhere but I'm pretty sure that is not what I am seeing on any of the Holbrook engines. How many cars are we talking about using the OEM PCM? I can't imagine running OEM, but then again I wouldn't use something like BS3 either when something as capable as the MoTeC ECUs and dashloggers are on the approved list. For me it was a no brainer to buy MoTeC. There's certainly no RPM limit problem there either. |
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm the sword is mightier than the pen
we'll see |
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The front entry ram air style intake found on the 2013-2014 429 Cobra Jet and on the books for the 2013-2014 NA 5.0L Cobra Jet. It was originally designed to be interchangeable incase competitors swapped motors. The CAD drawing for both manifolds (Cobra JET 5.0L and Cobra Jet 429) has the throttle body located in the same position for that reason. They both use the same throttle body. I contacted the Ford Performance drag racing manager on this simply because Ford Performance was out of stock. I wanted to know the part # for it and if they were going to update the part # since they had to make new ones. That is where he said they were legal to use but wouldn't be released until after Indy. After Indy he decided not to make them and to turn the program over to Watson Engineering who is the originally manufacturer of the air kit. Bottom line was he was punishing Cobra Jet owners by making them wait who could have taken advantage of using the approved part. I did not know why he was holding this from us for months, it's evident he did not know how or did not care to do his job to help support Cobra Jet owners. I have email chains from all parties including NHRA, the current Ford Performance drag race manager and the previous Ford Performance drag race manager. Below is a copy of an email I got from Pat Cvengros Jim D'Amore |
Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
In my first post to add insult to injury about the ram air induction, the current ford performance drag race manager told 3 of Ford's fastest 2016 Cobra Jets to go ahead and put them on their cars for Gainesville this year. When they showed up with the part NHRA made them take it off because Mike never got them approved, he never even spoke to NHRA about approving them. There was some extremely heated discussions between those CJ owners and Mike. His reply was to hang out with his friends in the GM Performance crowd instead of the Ford Cobra Jet enthusiasts all weekend. He has already tried to get approved factory parts from the prior Ford Performance Drag Race Manager Jesse Kershaw to be deemed NOT legal for use.
That is where I made one of my comments in a previous post that made me think he was working for Roger Allen and not FRPP. After that comment Mike pulled his sponsorship from classracer.com....some Cobra Jet enthusiast he is... |
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Roland we've been a WD for 10 years and spent millions with them doing business. We've promoted their brand, the Cobra Jet cars, and all of their retail parts for our daily customers. Yet the man hates me, he's shown it many times. We never had these issues with the previous Ford Performance Drag Race Manager... |
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We currently have 16 Cobra Jets that we are tuning and support tuning for using the factory PCM and some of them are the fastest of their kind. The only limitation we've had is RPM and through our own research have made great strides but have never had support from the current Ford Performance drag race manager in doing so. |
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With the factory PCM we can run up to the following max RPM... 2008-2012 5.4L CJ cars are 7,800 RPM max 2013-2014 5.0L CJ cars are 8,200 RPM max 2016 5.0L CJ is 8,500 RPM max |
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That being said, Time to call Robin Lawrence at Holley. |
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Trust me I'm well aware...after my company's loyalty to Ford for 36 years and the millions we've spent with them between Ford parts & service as well as Ford Performance. He makes it very clear he will do anything to including calling me a cheater to NHRA, even though NHRA tech'd the car legal for its class. In his very last phone conversation with me he told me that I should be quiet and to not poke the bear. |
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My prior comments were about the tube between the throttle body and MAF rather than the part you've pictured as I'm sure you know, just clearing that up for anyone else reading. Wasn't clear what you meant by air kit. Fastest of their kind rather than just saying fastest was a good clarification you've made. Carson's car certainly is real fast at 9.33. Just a suggestion Jim, there is something to be said for poking the bear. I've seen posts on here from you like "Charlie Bob eat me" also. That doesn't play well here. I've learned at times it works out better for me to type out my diatribe about something, then delete it without ever sending. I wouldn't think this thread is going to be helpful for you. |
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As a die hard ford guy I find this extremely frustrating!!!
One thing to fight the competition, but to fight our own....arrg! |
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As someone who bleeds Ford blue it is very frustrating to see how the CJ program has changed since Jesse Kershaw moved on. I obviously don't know everything that is going on behind the scenes but on the surface it isn't very encouraging... When you compare the obvious effort being put forth by Chevrolet and Dodge, Ford is behind. I sure hope Ford doesn't screw up a good thing. |
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Now, I'm on the outside looking in on this deal but it seems to me that FFFord has taken some of it's monies from it's NHRA program and dumped it into Nascar. They sure seem to be spending a lot on Nascar lately.
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Very good point I know he's only been involved with Ford Performance Drag Racing for about 2 years now. Most of the CJ owners have been loyal to Ford Motor company and Ford Drag racing for over 30 years. When NHRA agreed to take a look at 1 common Supercharger on all models of Cobra Jets. When they contacted Mike why would he say Ford Motor company "is no longer interested"? Especially after he wrote an email to the 08-12 CJ owners saying he was going to approve it. It's heat breaking especially for the CJ owners that actually partitioned NHRA for the shoot out class. Now cars that they have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in can not compete. Next question for Mike is why would he deem a stock eliminator combination illegal to run in the stock eliminator shoot out class? Attached is what he wrote in an email.... |
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Mike, why would you have the only cars participating in the shoot out put parts on their cars that you never got approved by NHRA and start and embarrassing war about it at Gainesville? Instead of just doing your job and protecting the CJ owners.
These are my questions since it's an open forum. |
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Mike has been nothing short of awesome to us and helping our CJ program.
My gut feeling on this one is this, and remember we have nothing newer than a 2013 CJ, if the older stuff is super competitive then it makes the newer CJ sales be effected in a negative manner. We would have loved to jump in and compete in the Showdown class with our older stuff, if we could be competitive. And chances are, Mike is being given direction on this deal. With that said, it’s strictly my 2 cents and that normally doesn’t get you very far. |
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Bill, Ain't no doubt you bleed Ford blue, I've met you at many races and you were always to support the brand. When NHRA put the 4.0L combination on the books the very next day Don Fezell bought Superchargers and a Longblock to have it in his car for the shoot out. As we were assembling the long block for him word was released that Mike pulled that engine combination from the shoot out. Even though he already knew Don was building this combination. It's extremely depressing a rep from Ford would turn against their own kind. Jim |
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Brett, First you know I have the utmost respect for you and your family. This is an email Mike sent to the older Cobra Jet owners with his promise to help. When NHRA agreed to it Mike then turned it down with the comments he was no longer interested. So why write such an elaborate email to some of the older CJ owners promising help. I have already spoken to upper management at Ford and they have said to me they don't care what it is they just want a Ford on the pole. Mike is pretty much acting on his own now since his direct bosses have been removed or moved to a different department inside Ford and is no longer associated with Ford Performance. Jim |
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Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
Evidently no one is reading the current news. Ford is really busy with the old train station and the future of self driving cars. They will be more interested when NHRA OK's self driving drag cars.
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I have been a dealer since 1992 I believe and at the present time Ford Performance seems like a ghost ship just floating around lost. They use Ford Performance to train engineers and managers and have a constant turnover. Over at GM it seems that you hear the same names forever running the performance business. They work until they can no longer operate their walker safely and are then put out to pasture. It is difficult to beat experience with trainees. It appears to me that the CJ program is falling further behind every race. I don't see the extra 12 cubic inches of the next CJ engine solving the problem. I have had little contact with Mike but he was pleasant to deal with. I believe that they need to put a younger person in the job that does not have as many other interests as Mike. Someone with some fire in his gut who want to work seven days a week trying to outrun the competition.
Roland |
Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
Isn't it Ford policy not to argue with a _ _ _ _ ? I may not have the correct number of blanks, but you get the picture.
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We all know those "sticker cars" in NASCAR have people running to the dealership to buy rear wheel drive Fusions, right? And that third place for the GT at Lemans makes me want to order a new $400,000 car...... I just bought a 2018 Mustang GT. One of the reasons I bought it is because of how much I like the Factory Showdown cars, mainly the Cobra Jets. It pisses me off to see the company that started this entire thing in 2008 doing it's best to screw it up. We didn't know how good we had it when Brian Wolfe and Jesse Kershaw were running the show. Remember those good old days? |
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Larry, I'm just looking for answers, I don't believe we've ever met but I highly respect your passion for our sport. I understand that a few people have made comments that Ford Performance is just trying to sell the new cars. But why did Mike make this promise to the older cars a full year after the new 16's were out. I want to see the 08-12 cars, the ones that started it all and put Ford back in the winners circle be given an equal opportunity. 13 months ago he promised Don Fezell that he would get the RPM rev limiter raised in his computer. 13 months later and nothing, it is just empty promises. Don was one of the first to go fast and pilot the Cobra Jet into the winners circle. He has a considerable amount of time and money into this car just like others. Why shouldn't they have the opportunity as well. I'm sure the guys that showed up at Gainesville with the 16 cars this year were super happy about Mikes failed promise on the ram air kits. All because Mike didn't do his job and ask NHRA to have them put on the books. Jim D'Amore |
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This is the 5.4L 4.0L combination I'm speaking of, it has less HP than the 5.4L 2.3L combination.
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Its cyclic, has been for decades. The oem's come in make a mess of things for a few years and walk away. I don't think Mike has any control over this situation. About 66% of the new car fields in Stock are Camaros - about 20% are Ford's with a few Drag Paks here and there. Each cycle runs its course and it may be time to recognize the oem's are done for now. And that will include GM at some point in the near future.
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You do realize that there are 68 new Cobra Jets being built this year?]
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I think they have been doing that for a few years now.
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