Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

I have received several calls and texts over the week from people who after seeing my son win 4th round at the Div. 3 race at St. Louis and not return for 5th round,and the results posted on Drag race central confused them more.
What happened was, in the excitement after seeing his Win light come on, he inadvertently hit the reverse lock out button and over shot the neutral gate on the shifter causing a brief lock up and tire smoke well past the finish line. He corrected that and steered the car safely off the track, at the scale he was told he was ejected for excessive braking, his explanation was met with indifference so he went to the tower to plead his case to the race director, where he was told that he "already made the call" and if he continued with his plea that he would suspend him for a year! His timeslip , not posted was, .011 rt, 11.928(11.91 dial)@110.59mph,(car runs 112 wot), NOT 88.01mph as seen on the internet (FAKE NEWS/COVER UP), Excessive braking? You be the judge.

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

I like a good conspiracy as much as everyone but that not the case here. For whatever reason when a driver receives a no time on DRC it puts these random numbers in the mph column. If you go to round one eliminations of Stock you will see the same thing.

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

From what I've seen, tire smoke from excessive braking happens just as often (or more) after the stripe as it does before it. The MPH on the slip doesn't really serve as proof.

In this case there is video available:

https://youtu.be/dQ6LgdthmAA?t=24513

I think the video backs up the stated reason/story. If you're in the tower watching, probably not closely, and only know that the car got very loose just after the stripe it is probably easy to make the wrong call.

It definitely sucks. Not sure what a good solution would be.

Scary ride!

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

NHRA needs to start hiring competent division directors. I have witnessed over the years multiple division directors abusing there authority and no one will stand up to them in fear of being suspended. If you make a wrong call stand up and make it right. spending thousands of dollars to travel and race at a divisional and then get screwed because of a division director playing favorites is part of the declining car counts.

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

FYI that the subject run is at the 6:49 mark of the YouTube link that Tony provided. Happened to be watching the broadcast live when it happened and thought hitting the brakes that hard was bizarre given he had just crossed the stripe so now we have “the rest of the story”. Very unfortunate but can probably catalog it as one of the million ways to lose and learn from it because there’s no logical resolution. Personally, unless I’ve got a clean neutral I steer away from going to neutral until the end of the shutdown area, that has been in my vast repertoire of lessons learned for quite some time. Even though the call wasn’t correct he is fortunate to not have suffered some damage to both his and Austin’s car. Perhaps a different shifter is in order.

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

Looking at the video it could have been a crash if the left lane car had been just a little bit slower and was not as far down track as he was or in this case ahead of the right lane car------good call by the tower--- I'm sorry but an equipment/driver malfunction causing the tires to smoke and then a complete lane change to me would be a reason to disallow the run--

just lucky the 2 cars did not collide as it looks like it was pretty close from the camera's perspective

FED 387

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

I was presume this call was made by our brand new division 3 director who just started in his position this month, correct?

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

Looked like a good call to me. When you cross the center line out of control it does not leave much choice.
Pete

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

No one who watched the video can tell when the tires locked up.This should have been handled much better by the division director.Like checking with people at the other end of track and not threats to the driver. The result may have been the same ,but doing your job right might have saved a lot of bad blood.

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

Now wait a minute, if you are past the finish line and cross the "center line out of control" in a fuel car, you still win the race. And that also goes for hitting the guard wall, exploding your car apart, hitting the driver in the other lane or, oh yeah, smoking the tires.

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

Nothing that you have stated here is incorrect. However, Section 2 Page 9 of the 2018 NHRA Rulebook specifically notes that boundary infractions past the finish line will be enforced if they determine that excessive braking was the cause of the infraction. Capitalization is in the rulebook; not mine:

Anytime it has been judged that excessive braking has resulted in loss of control that results in contact with the guardwall and/or light fixtures or crossing the center boundary lines, INCLUDING PAST THE FINISH LINE, the contestant will be disqualified.

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

Bruce, welcome to the forum.
Have to say..it looked bad on video. crossing into the opponent's lane, even after the traps...Not good.
I was excited and put it in reverse is probably not a good case.
I'm afraid you'll just have to chalk this one up to experience. IMO

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

This was obviously WAY past the finish line and not a case of excessive braking. I've had opponents hit reverse by accident in the shutdown area more than once. (once in eliminations, once in a qualifying run) On the elimination run, I got beat fair and square. I didn't complain, and my opponent busted his ***** to swap transmissions between rounds and continued on in eliminations, albeit on some slightly less than perfectly round tires. :p

A little common sense goes a long way.

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

I completely agree, but it depends on how closely the powers that be are watching and paying attention.

If you're in the tower eating a sandwich, and you hear Alan say "whoa!" which makes you look up and see smoke and a car crossed-up shortly past the finish line, it is probably easy to make the bad assumption here.

And no, I don't think any assumptions should ever be made in these cases. But we also know how much of a priority we can be in the NHRA world.

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

I'm not saying the right or wrong decision was made but when's the last time they reversed a decision on anything. I think they are taught to make a decision and stick to it, just my opinion. When I watched the video, I can see why he made the call to the top end to DQ him.

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

That is correct. Seems like the rules are different for this case. I have also seen certian racers smoke the tires during excessive braking on two consecutive rounds an only get a warning.

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

After watching the video many times I feel the call was correct---My reasons are that the car did not "just smoke the tires a teeny little bit " but locked them up enough to disrupt the forward motion of the vehicle and cause the car to change lanes violently and at one point 100% of the car is in the other lane---It appears that he "lost control" and fortunately did not hit something whether it was another car or the wall--This is way beyond just smoking the tires by "excessive braking" --The driver openly admitted he put the trans into reverse or something of the sort something about his shifter ---The call was a safety issue and was meant as a punishment or deterrent not to do this again---I don't care if he was excited about the fact that he was going to the 5th round in stock that caused him to do this.He was wrong and I feel the decision is correct--- who the division director is or how long he has been the division director should have no bearing on the decision----The offender is wrong, it was the correct decision at the time , after either observing it in person or on a video rerun. You cannot convince me otherwise. I feel the DQ was correct. FED 387

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

I was just going to make that point. To expound on it then, the DD DQ's him. They then tell the guy who was out, that he's in. Then the first party goes to the tower to make their case.
20 min. later the DD would have to say okay, you're in. Then he has to tell the guy who was out, then in , that he's out again, because all the other guy did was put it in reverse after the finish line , smoke the tires ,and cross over into his lane.
I've been around NHRA long enough to tell you it ain't gonna happen.

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

nope

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

The most important question is: was he/it out of control? Yes. Was it caused by excessive braking? No. BUT it was that action that endangered another racer (and himself) and should have been tossed, it really doesn't matter that it wasn't caused by braking, the point is he was OUT OF CONTROL and dangerous. Fix the shifter problem and go on. Lots more races to win, only one life to lose.

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

Sorry to hear this, did the reverse lockout not work then?

Anyways I have a question somewhat related. At the Englishtown national event a few years back in Stock E2 I got a head start in the right lane and while getting chased by a fast car he got loose and came into my lane from behind. I was watching in the rear view the whole way. I wanted to cross over into the left lane to get out of his way but thought that would be terrible and confuse him if he was trying to correct. Would I have lost? The other thing was I kept my foot to the floor trying to get away from him and hopefully give him room to get stopped but if I would have went quicker than my dial would I have also lost? He did a good job and got it under control and it didn't end up being serious but after that race I was wondering was the race over once he crossed into my lane?

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

If you broke out, you would have won because he crossed into your lane.

If you crossed into his lane, you would win because he did the same thing first.

As far as the race being over once he crossed into your lane, I'm not sure about that. If you went and stuffed your car into the wall, is that worse? Or are they both just boundary infractions at the same level. But you could have gone red, broke out, or changed lanes after your opponent did and still be the winner.

I really don't know how it works if you would have come up light or failed fuel check with your opponent swapping lanes.

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

At Epping Nats a few years ago, a couple of A list stocker drivers (who shall remain nameless) ran each other. One got crossed up in the lights after braking and spun, doing a 360 in front of the other, who had to lock his brakes up to avoid a collision. If I remember correctly, no one got tossed. (But the incident made the highlight reel!)

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

Thanks for your feed back guys, I accepted the ruling that was made right away, just didn't care for the misinformation reported to DRC on the MPH to make it appear that he was skidding across the finish line OR the autocratic attitude and threat of a year suspension! I've read the rule book and you have to jump back and forth between sections, it basically states that the race director can make a judgment call, and right or wrong, it can not appealed for the sake of expediting the race to conclusion. Accepted as written. It's just that this is the only business who's representatives can treat the customers with no respect and expect them to return. I guess that's why the car counts at S/SS assoc. races are increasing while they are low at a lot of NHRA events. Maybe NHRA should have a satisfaction survey request on the back of your ticket, like McDonalds does for a $1 hamburger.

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

All good points Bruce, I think you handled the situation well, Tony.

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

Good luck with that. There is no competition. They really don't care. Going to the association races is your only alternative.

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

The ruling was excessive braking. If you took 2 minutes to go back and look at the video that D3TV now thankfully gives us, you can see he was well past the finish line and his story backs the case of putting it in Reverse. I would imagine the DD would have had access to this video since even I was able to rewind and watch it immediately after it happened. With championships on the line it seems to me an immediate DQ should have adequate evidence. Now if you are DQ'ing him for making a mistake and then threatening a year suspension you are opening a huge can of worms. Do you DQ someone for not tightening up the front end and doing an uncontrollable wheelie if they don't cross the center line? They made a mistake on an adjustment that could have potentially put the other racer in danger if they would have crossed. We all make mistakes and we all know racing has it's dangers and as many people here have pointed out there were a lot of "what-ifs" but where is the line that someone has subjective control of the outcome of a race? From the sounds of some of these responses I am sure glad some of you are not DD's!

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

Charlotte Rd4 SS Sat. night when they were lapping everyone Keith Lynch left second and a high-flying Camaro was heading towards him. He lifted to miss any 'occurance', got back in it and of course, couldn't run the number. Tough Luck??!

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

I'm not 100% clear on what the 'easy call' result would be.

From what you've written, crossing the lane line is the worst infraction there is, so that driver would be the loser since Worst trump First? Illegal car wins?

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

Yes....

Worst always is a loss.....

Same infraction, the first is the loser..

If you are light you are the first, so red light, breakout, and time out they all came second...

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

Hey Bruce, put a Winters or TCI shifter in there, will never have that issue again. That is all I have ever used, been at this since 1990, never stuck it in reverse by accident.

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

Video Link https://youtu.be/dQ6LgdthmAA?t=24549

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

In the late 70's, I was in Epping and racing Rich Rann. I lost the Rd, but at the finish line, Rich hit his brakes not to break out, went behind my car and ended up in the weeds. Since it was after the finish line he continued to race. So he crossed the line just missing my car and crashed, not the same call as this link.

Casey Miles
248H Stock ?

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

Lots of food for thought. An easy fix,that would bring consistency to the judgement call would to change the wording in the rule and remove the subjective "judged as excessive braking past the finish line" to," crossing the center line after the finish line for any reason". Then it would be an" easy call"and no more accusations of favoritism for the A list drivers. Oops, it would only work unless it was applied to ALL classes and drivers, that would never work! Bad idea - never mind.

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

"Anytime it has been judged that excessive braking has resulted in loss of control that results in contact with the guardwall and/or light fixtures or crossing the center boundary lines, INCLUDING PAST THE FINISH LINE, the contestant will be disqualified"

It's a shame he was ejected, and yes, after explanation of what happened there is no reason to believe hes not lying, but put yourself in the DD's spot. Do you think everyone who has ever been ejected for excessive braking said " OK " and not had an excuse or a story on why or how it happened? I am not sure if "instant replay " is something that has been used in the past to reverse a call in Sportsman racing, and if it does get used, is it fair that not every race has video rolling for every minute of racing. Also the" championship on the line" could apply the first round of the first race of the year if you could able to look at a crystal ball 6 months later. No one can say by looking at that video that the story given is what happened. The video is from behind, and you cant see the rear tires going backwards.Yes maybe if you have a big enough screen with good resolution, but is that what we are expecting at every race? to call up in the booth like an NFL game for a review? Most Stock and SS racers feel tech is getting less and less, but we want them to ramp up this? I think the call made for the circumstance was made to fit the rule since it states that the infraction can be made even after the finish line. I wonder how many people would be debating this if the cars got together due to this unfortunate mistake.

Dave Leclaire ruined his original RO23 hemi car doing the same thing, he wasn't ejected because he lost or it was a qualifying run, but he will never make that mistake again, and corrected the ability to make that mistake. I'm glad no one was hurt, no cars were wrecked, and he can race another day.

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

Just a final thought , and I'm done. Just watched the video for the first time, yes it looked bad, but I would venture to say that there is no driver out there that could have regained control and kept the car going straight and out of the wall, any quicker as he did.
I wish you all, good health and a joyful off season.

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

Yet another example of the excessive breaking rule being used different by different Divisions.

Was this racer given a warning earlier in the day for excessive breaking in an earlier round of competition? If not then why are other racers given warnings for excessive breaking? Does this now mean warnings will not be given for excessive breaking?

Let’s not forget the track was 40 degrees and they wrecked 6 race cars that weekend.

Maybe the New Division director should have been worried about everyone safety that weekend and not ran the event past 4pm in the afternoon because of track temp. I watched more good ss cars blow the tires off at the hit during this event then the first 5 points meets combined. Including the final of SS.

Anytime it has been judged that excessive braking has resulted in loss of control that results in contact with the guard wall and/or light fixtures or crossing the center boundary lines, INCLUDING PAST THE FINISH LINE, the contestant will be disqualified"

The only way for this rule to ever be clear is it needs to be very simple,
If there’s smoke you’re out. Excessive breaking is SMOKE COMING FROM YOUR TIRES plain and simple. End of story no warning no second chance.

This makes the rule very clear. I have watched too many stock/superstock and super class racers over the years smoke the tires at the finish line and almost wreck or come close to being out of control and nothing be done about it

It’s only a matter of time until someone wrecks some else and severally hurts or kills someone because of their poor driving habits.
Accident and mistakes happen which is what appears to have happened in this case, but this rule need to be much clear and the same for each division. If this incident happened in Div 4 or 5 would he have just gotten a warning or would they have tossed him?

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

A shifter that can be put into reverse with one hand always seemed to me to be more easily accidently shifted in to reverse....

My good friend did exactly that and totaled his car.

His throttle stuck at the finishline at over 150 and he panicked and moved the shifter to reverse trying to neutral it. One hand was all that was needed to shift to reverse.....

He Did not have a safety style valve body as most of us do today and his rear wheels locked up instantly and he went around and over...

My own car requires 2 hands to put it in reverse....

Re: Driver ejection,NHRA cover up at St. Louis
 

GIVE IT A REST ! Its over, done deal !