i know there are some great engine builders here
 

I am not one of them. So I would like to hear some of your thoughts about this article.

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-te...the-confusion/

Re: i know there are some great engine builders here
 

There are many advantages as shown in the article. Nevertheless, a reminder that in Stock and Super Stock classes you have a minimum weight for connecting rods.

Re: i know there are some great engine builders here
 

I have always preached that side clearance has nothing to do with oil flow it bearing clearance the regulates the oil the bleeds out between the rods.

I have worked on piston guided rod engines before, Mercedes was the first to introduce the piston guided rod engine a long time ago.

It's like Lingenfelter published if you leave the plug out that is under the rear main cap you will loose oil pressure from there it was published in a bunch of books only to find out its a myth, LOL All that happens is the oil bypasses the oil filter.

Re: i know there are some great engine builders here
 

Would have been interesting to hear Jenkins` response to the contradiction. He was talking about Cylinder wall oiling/ rod side clearance, "oil trapping" and its effect on oil pump volume. Hard to believe the Grump didn`t grasp the concept of oil pressure being created by bearing clearance. just sayin...
Here is Jenkins` book: https://www.scribd.com/doc/110755831...e-Bill-Jenkins
The paragraph the article referenced is on Pg.47
Mike

Re: i know there are some great engine builders here
 

A pump doesn't pump pressure, it pumps volume that's measured in GPH. That was taught in Army Engineer School in the 60's and had to be common knowledge long before that.

The pressure of any full displacement pump will be dictated by the restriction it encounters before being dumped back into atmospheric pressure.

Re: i know there are some great engine builders here
 

Well as an old time builder I have a totally different take on the bearing clearance/side clearance topic.
First I would like to point out that it appears like some didn't grasp what was going on with the side clearance. I think it was a product of misinformation. It was an intentional misdirection of information.
Back in the day we had to use to use wide clearances to keep bearings and engines alive. Oil flow was not the real issue. The real issue was flex and parts moving around rubbing, touching and binding.
1. The older crank and rod material was not as strong as we have today.
The alloys were different and today the stock parts are stronger by design, too.
2. The size made a difference in the strength. As SBC cranks went from 2" rods to 2.100 they flexed less and bearing clearances and side clearance could be closed up.
3. The weight of parts decreased so the loads on the crank and rods decreased.
Modern day pistons and pins are stronger and lighter.
As the parts got better the clearances could be decreased.
I did find that some engines with large diameter mains and rod journals needed more clearance just for the growth created by the heat. I used the unscientific method of heating parts to operating temps to find the running clearances. The first pin guided rod I ever saw was in the model airplane engines we used as kids. As I started racing go carts I saw them used in the chainsaw engines we modified. There is quite a difference in what we had back then vs what we have to work with now. Progress...
I think the engine Guru's of that time never discussed the real issue of parts flexing. That was a real speed secret.

Re: i know there are some great engine builders here
 

Agree!
Lets also add that new racing blocks have improved oiling and the majority of racing engines running piston guided rods have external or dry sump systems.

Re: i know there are some great engine builders here
 

What brand and weight of oil was Grumpy using in 1976 with a wet sump, cast pump and a stock block?

Re: i know there are some great engine builders here
 

Here is Jenkins` book: https://www.scribd.com/doc/110755831...e-Bill-Jenkins
Mike

Re: i know there are some great engine builders here
 

is there a way to bring this idea into a 305 sbc?

Re: i know there are some great engine builders here
 

pistons/rods not legal in S/SS...
Mike

Re: i know there are some great engine builders here
 

i guess that kills that

Re: i know there are some great engine builders here
 

classracerinfo, on here, lists what you can use
stuff in the article is for Comp Eliminator etc.
Mike

Re: i know there are some great engine builders here
 

I've got my own autographed copy. Just making reference to the fact his opinion might have changed given what's available today.

Re: i know there are some great engine builders here
 

Parts, materials and lubricants have certainly advanced by leaps and bounds, since then. Could effect the physics of it all in a major way. I will admit, I was a little pissed that the automotive journalist of 30 years, who authored the piece, seemed to dismiss Jenkins, as well as Yunick and Lingenfelter, as being wrong. Unfortunately they can`t comment. I think its safe to say, that if you are going to disparage Bill Jenkins about race engine physics, you better pack a lunch. Just my humble opinion. Not sure what oil he used, although probably heavy, Factory castings, forgings for blocks, heads, cranks, until the aftermarket caught up.
Mike

Re: i know there are some great engine builders here
 

Trust me Jenkins was my hero along with Smokey. I met both of them and are the few people I ever wanted an autograph of and got.
It's not so much the physics changing as the materials and availability of it changing. If you look at what they did they made everything themselves with the want to. They had only factory parts to work with and made their magic from there. The equipment you can buy today wasn't even available. Could you imagine the level they could or would have gone to with computers and CNC equipment?

Re: i know there are some great engine builders here
 

Among the best.
MJ

Re: i know there are some great engine builders here
 

I absolutely agree! Had to develop & make things we just order now.

Re: i know there are some great engine builders here
 

If only Bob Glidden had written a racing engine book.

Re: i know there are some great engine builders here
 

I was trying to explain the advancements, to a coworker, a couple days ago. We don't live an hour away from Ohio Crankshaft and I was explaining that, we could drive over and buy 1000 Horsepower plus and be home running it in a few hours. He raced in the 1970's and had no idea of the aftermarket parts available today.

Re: i know there are some great engine builders here
 

When was the last time you saw or heard of NHRA weighing them ?

Re: i know there are some great engine builders here
 

But how many are being used anyway in so called stock and S/S ?

Re: i know there are some great engine builders here
 

I hope it hasn`t gone that far...
MJ