US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

I just ran across 3 pics. The first 2 are of Rock Running's '74 GTO. It shows that he won a trophy, but not a Wally.

The 3rd pic shows Al Vanis as the US Nats Stock winner. In that pic, Rock Running's car is in the far lane. So, was Rock Running RU at that race ? If so, that was an all Pontiac Ventura US Nats final. Does anybody know what year that race was ?

Is there an online list of US Nats winners from back in the '70's & 80's ?

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

The most recent "cup trophy" that I have is dated 1974. The oldest "Wally" on the shelf is dated 1975. I would suspect that those dates would be pretty much put dates on the defining period.

c

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

Only problem with that is that you can clearly see that there were pics of a Wally on both sides of the winners circle sign. Was the Wally only for pro cars, that year ?

This site says the Wally was 1st given in 1969.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wally

Also, if that 3rd pic is from the same race as the 2nd pic, then the Stock winner did get a Wally that year. So, wouldn't that make Rock Running the RU that year ?

What type of trophy did the class winners get back then ?

Quote from post #1: "...Is there an online list of US Nats winners from back in the '70's & 80's ?"

Does anybody know of any way to find out who won Stock & SS back during those years ???

The only other 2 winners I know of, from the '70's, are Truman Fields in '73, and Mike McKinney, in the same car, a few years later. McKinney was in an all Pontiac final, with Mick Leiferman. I've read that Leiferman was RU 3 years in a row.

"… Mick Leiferman probably holds the record for Indy frustration? He reached the Stock final three straight years (1975, 1976, 1977) and finished as runner-up all three times..."

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

http://www.nhra.net/50th/years.html?year=2000

Probably find a few more Pontiacs here..

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

i got a trophy in 1973 and a wally in 1975

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

That's exactly what I needed ! Thanks ! :)

That Mike McKinney win, Mick Leiferman RU, was in '77.

http://www.nhra.net/50th/results.asp?mYear=1977

Rock Running was RU in '81. But I haven't found the Al Vanis win.

http://www.nhra.net/50th/results.asp?mYear=1981

One of my favorite Pontiac wins was Jack Mullins' SS win against the factory Mopar driven by "Miss Mighty Mopar", Judy Lilly, in '75. That was also the year Mick Leiferman got the 1st of his 3 consecutive Stock RU finishes.

http://www.nhra.net/50th/results.asp?mYear=1975

Only other Pontiac win I've noticed was Jim Wangers Stock win in '60.

http://www.nhra.net/50th/results.asp?mYear=1960

Well, that is unless you count the Top Dragster win by Jack Chrisman, in '62.

http://www.nhra.net/50th/results.asp?mYear=1962

Maybe the '74 winner listed as Vanisyl, is just a different spelling of Vanis, which is the way it was listed in the pic I posted. But, Rock Running is not listed as the RU. Maybe that pic was not the final. That would explain it.

http://www.nhra.net/50th/results.asp?mYear=1974

Maybe the Rock Running pic, in the Indy winners circle, was for his RU finish in '81, not '74. .

http://www.nhra.net/50th/results.asp?mYear=1981

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

Is it possible that the winner in 1974 was Al Vanis and that the name was misspelled "Al Vanisyl?" Larry Peterson, the runner-up, probably remembers it.

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

Yeah, that's what it looks like to me.

"...Maybe the '74 winner listed as Vanisyl, is just a different spelling of Vanis, which is the way it was listed in the pic I posted. But, Rock Running is not listed as the RU. Maybe that pic was not the final. That would explain it..."

Hey, that means that Pontiac power had back-to-back US Nats Stock wins in '73 & '74. I love it !

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

I scrolled through several years of the list and the letters "yl" are randomly appended to the names of numerous winners and runners-up. Is that another NHRA enhancement?

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

Larry, we gotta watch out for those "randomly appended" entries. Seldom see them outside the courtroom or legislative halls and when they show up there it usually means something just got shoved where the sun don't shine.

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

Al Vanis is his name and he raced this area for years and years . He won the Etown national event in Stock a number of years ago too I believe. Haven’t seen him racing for a while but he did race area tracks in Pro bracket for years in various cars. Was often at Island Dragway or Englishtown.

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

Also I believe the divisionals Wallys started in 1984 or 85.

Greg

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

Thanks for that info !

I think I MAY have all this figured out.

I posted a pic of Dave Pruden's '69 GTO, in the US Nats winners circle, on a Pontiac FB page. He had a trophy which was not a Wally. Here's what he said about that pic.

"...That’s for E/S class win at the 1973 US Nats. My first time there..."

So, I'm thinkin that the pic of Rock Running in the winners circle is for his class win in '74. And, the pic of the Al Vantis car going down the track was not from the final round. Rock Running just happened to be his opponent on that particular run, when the pic was made.

That's the best I can do. :o

Below is the pic of Dave Pruden in the winners circle, with his E/S class trophy.

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

I'm obviously not familiar with all those who raced competitive Pontiac Stock/SS cars thru the years. But I know some of the names.

I found that Sonny Ray won SS at the Cajun Nats in '79 & '82, & David Rampy won his 1st Wally, in that same car, at the '83 Cajuns.

http://www.nhra.net/50th/results.asp?mYear=1979

http://www.nhra.net/50th/results.asp?mYear=1982

http://www.nhra.net/50th/results.asp?mYear=1983

The Cajun Nats were held in my home state. We went in '78. Got a good close-up pic of Sonny & his '72 GTO.

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

The year Al won was 1974 and it was not an all Pontiac final... I was the runner-up in my 1966 Chevrolet Impala Wagon running in R/SA. I red lite :( long time ago :)

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

Thanks for that info !

I think I finally have all the facts straight now.

Al Vanis won the race, and beat Rock Running in an earlier round, NOT the final. The pic of Rock in the winners circle is for his class win.

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

Chuck. Have 1971 national. Big really. 1972 class cup

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Remember it clearly!

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Does anyone remember when the Wally was called an Oscar? If so, when did that name change take place?

Bobby DeArmond

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

Bobby, I'm going to guess it was in the early 80's. I don't know who started it.
Tony Feil used to call them "tire rollers".
I don't believe that's supposed to look like Wally Parks
Most likely , it's P.T. Barnum ;-)

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

Jack Williams

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

OK, got another one for you guys. I just found this pic.

It shows a '68 Bird, with "Hard Times" on the door. It's in the US Nats winners circle, and the guy is definitely holding a Wally.

Here's the problem. I know that Truman Fields won Stock in '73, in the Hard Times Bird, and Mike McKinney won a couple of years later, in the same car.

But, the car in this pic has different lettering & looks to have a vinyl roof.

So, who is this, and IF he did win the US Nats, what year was it ?

When they have a div 3 race at Indy, do they leave the US Nats winners circle sign up ? If so, I assume this could have been a win at a div race, maybe ?

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

I was thinking mid 80's.The reason being the motion picture guild had a TM on "Oscar" so NHRA had to change it.It took 25+ years for the guild to become aware of it!.Now NHRA calls it a Wally.So fast forward 20 yrs,just before the 50th anniversary at Indy,a guy who was a friend of Wally Parks,Jack Jones who ran a dragster around 1969 files a lawsuit against NHRA.He claims the statue is of him,standing at a track in Socal with his hand holding down a fire mask,gloves on top of a tire,and holding his helmet in the other.He also has the original photo of him that was used for the design.The point was he did not want the term "Wally" to be used on something bearing his resemblance with no compensation.I believe him and NHRA came to some agreement and Wally lives on!! gsa612

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

Thanks,I misremembered his last name.

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

It’s Truman Fields in 1977 at the Nationals. He won C/S class that year. In 76 he sold the car that he won the 73 Nationals to Roy and Mike McKinney. This is the car Truman got in trade from them plus the money for his HT1 Firebird. I currently own the car in the picture





QUOTE=oldskool;581061]OK, got another one for you guys. I just found this pic.

It shows a '68 Bird, with "Hard Times" on the door. It's in the US Nats winners circle, and the guy is definitely holding a Wally.

Here's the problem. I know that Truman Fields won Stock in '73, in the Hard Times Bird, and Mike McKinney won a couple of years later, in the same car.

But, the car in this pic has different lettering & looks to have a vinyl roof.

So, who is this, and IF he did win the US Nats, what year was it ?

When they have a div 3 race at Indy, do they leave the US Nats winners circle sign up ? If so, I assume this could have been a win at a div race, maybe ?[/QUOTE]

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

" It’s Truman Fields in 1977 at the Nationals. He won C/S class that year. In 76 he sold the car that he won the 73 Nationals to Roy and Mike McKinney. This is the car Truman got in trade from them plus the money for his HT1 Firebird. I currently own the car in the picture "

OK, I'm confused. This article clearly states that the car Mike McKinney traded to Truman was BURGANDY. Says Truman got it running quicker than Mike was running in Truman's old car. There are 2 pics of the Burgandy car. There is no mention of a green car with a vinyl top.

So, is the info in this article completely false ?

http://www.risesales.com/pages/Dragr.../t_fields.html

Another question. That is clearly a Wally in his hand, in that winners circle pic. Truman did not win Stock that year at the US Nats. So, in '77, did they also give a Wally to all the class winners, as well as the eliminator winners.

Earlier pics showed a completely different trophy for class winners.

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

I don't know what the did at Indy but I have a wally from winning class at the 1976 Sportsnationals in BG.

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

In the first place, it should be recognized that there is a HUGE difference between a class win and an eliminator win and a corresponding difference between the sizes of the trophies for each. The eliminator trophy is at least twice as big as a class trophy and that doesn't begin to address the differences in payout as well as in earned prestige. In any given year, at any given event, there are literally dozens of class winners, each presented with a traditional small Wally. By contrast, there is only ONE eliminator winner trophy per category, per event and there is no mistaking the difference when they're placed side-by-side. Magazine write-ups and "For Sale" ads sometimes blur the distinction through the misleading usage of terminology such as "Indy Winner" to describe a class win at the U.S. Nationals even though some Class Winner trophies were presented to racers who were the only contestant in a given class. It should be remembered that there are usually seven rounds of sweat, blood, and tears between a class win and eliminator win.

The discussion regarding the timing of the change-over in trophies caused me to take another look at that issue. I have a picture of my car taken in 1975 following class eliminations in front of the "Winternationals" trophy backdrop that includes the car, me, and a "cup" trophy sitting on the ground beside the car. In spite of that, the trophy on my shelf with the tag identifying the 1975 Winternationals Class Winner is a small "Wally." The photography crew placed the "cup" beside the car for the picture but the trophy that I eventually received was the "new" design. It seems that I recall that there had been a late delivery of trophies following the change and they didn't appear for several days. That late delivery probably only occurred at the Winternationals that year but it demonstrates the point that things are not always as they seem.

c

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

Truman won the eleminator in 73 at Indy

In 76 Truman sold the car to Roy McKinney and took a 68 Firebird in trade from them. This became the Hard Times 2 car it was Green with a vinyl top.

In 77 Truman won class (C/S) and lost early in the eleminator

In 77 Mike McKinney won ( B/S ) class and stock eleminator at the US Nationals.

I own the car that Truman took in trade and posted the pictures of the 77 class win with my car now.

The article is wrong that the car was burgundy when Truman received it.

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

I can verify the Oscar/Wally thing. I started covering races in the late 1980's and clearly remember the NHRA staff in the media center asking us to use the term "Wally". As I remember, it was a printed notice placed at each desk.


Nothing on the notice mentioned the Hollywood awards, but if you asked off the record, you were told it was due to either a cease and desist or a lawsuit depending on who you talked to.

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

Thanks Todd !

I think between you & Brent, ya'll have got all the facts straight for me.

At this time I just have one more question. I just saw this pic of one of Truman's "Hard Times" Birds with a multicolored paint job. Had never seen this pic before. So, which car was that ? And what year did it have that paint job ?

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

I know for sure it was called an Oscar in 1981. I think it was in the mid 80s when the Academy Awards people complained and the trophy with Jack Jones on it became the Wally.

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

This picture was taken at my home track, Thunder Valley Dragway in Marion South Dakota at an NHRA Divisional race. Mr. Fields had relocated for work to the Denver area and ran with us in Division 5 for a short time....you might notice the Div. 5 permanent number on the window.

Mr Fields used to post here from time to time.

https://i.imgur.com/Or0SDG7l.jpg

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

Thanks for that info !

Any idea what year(or years) that was ?

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

This article will help....
http://www.risesales.com/pages/Dragr..._EAmjv-sCoVgJY

My first 2 cars after I got a drivers license were Pontiacs and I developed a liking for them. In my very early days racing in Jr.Stock…...I always checked out any Pontiac racecars at any race we were at. Truman was by far the most successful Pontiac racer ever. I did speak with him once when he showed up at my local track in NJ to make some runs. That was when he was working in NJ and the article above confirms that.

I loved Pontiacs and still do !

Re: US Nats ? For You Older Guys
 

I think from 78 to maybe 81 or 82.

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So, this was the same car you have today, but with the vinyl top removed and a different paint job ???

What color was it just before it was repainted like his original Bird, like you raced it ?