Points and Related Programs
 

New to Stock Eliminator. 2017 was our first year. I would like to get some thoughts on the below subject.

Section 3, page 3 – Points and Related Programs

NHRA LUCAS OIL REGIONAL AND DIVISIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS
To accommodate those NHRA Lucas Oil Drag Racing Series racers who elect to concentrate activity closer to their homes, separate regional and divisional programs are conducted to honor the top points champion in each NHRA’s four regions or seven geographic divisions.

If the intent is to provide a championship series for those that want to only race within their division and closer to home, and each driver must select a division prior to competing, then why can a racer choose to race only 3 of the six (6) divisional races and an unlimited number out-of-division races and still be eligible for divisional championship points?

An analysis of the Stock Class in Division 6 from 2008 to 2018 shows that if only the 5 best in-division (Home Division) points were used for each participant, 4 of 10 champions crowned over that same period would be different, that’s 40%. Also, over that same period, 8 out of the 10 finishers 3rd through 6th would have changed as well, that’s 80%. There were only 2 years where the finish order did not change using this analysis, 2016 and 2013.

In 2017 car #7474 won both the Division 7 and National Championship in Stock Eliminator. However, if you were to take the best in-division points for the top three drivers in Division 7, Car # 7616 would have won the division instead of finishing 3rd. Car # 7474 competed in 14 events compared to Car #7616 who competed locally in his division at 5 events. Same is true for 2016 in Division 2, 2015 in Division 2, 2013 in Division 7, 2011 in Division 1, and 2009 in Division 3. In 2008 it appears out-of-division points were not considered in the divisional points race, not sure of this assumption.

Wouldn’t this make more sense: To be eligible for a division championship you should have to participate in at least 5 of the 6 divisional races. The 2015 and 2008 champions only participated in four (4) of the six (6) divisional races, while the second-place finishers participated in all six (6) events. Out-of- division points are not considered.

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

See All Star points.

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

Are you referring to the JEGS ALLSTARS? If so, that race appears to bring the top winners across all divisions and regions to a single event.

I'm trying to understand the rational behind divisional racing and how points awarded outside of ones home division are included in the divisional points calculations. If drivers want to compete outside their division, have more time and resources to travel than maybe there should also be a regional champion for the other classes.

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

Jeg's All Star points were mentioned because only 'in-division' races count toward that points total.

Your argument may make sense if you live in the center of your division. For me, living in the northeastern section of D5, The two closest NHRA division races for me are in D5. From there, it goes D3, D5 (double race), D3, D5, D3. I could get to every race in D3 and a couple in D4 before I could get to the 6th and final race in my home division.

The way they have it structured is much more friendly to travel (for some) than mandating all races in a single division. Also, if you were to break your car at a bad time and have to miss an in-division race, you have some flexibility to deal with it.

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

You also need to factor in that the NHRA Divisional schedule doesn't always fit the racers "life schedule".

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

Thanks for explanation on the JEGS point.

You are correct D5 is tough if you live in WY, ND, SD, MN. NE may not be too bad. do you think weather is a contributing factor for the D5 structure?

Very similar situation for our friends in Canada.


What I noticed is that several of the divisional champions will attend as many as 12 to 16 races. This really increases their odds of racking up some points outside of their division.

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

This may be why NHRA lets you choose what division you want to race each year. My understanding is, you don't have to live in the division you race in, you just have to choose one at your first race.

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

It seems to me that if I was very lucky enough to have 300 points in the first 4 races - I would sit and save money.

At $1200 to $1500 a race it would save money for next years improvements. No motor home to stay in at the track drives costs up. Plus a non-automotive industry job limits participation.

But I am old and not retired or wealthy like so many are.


Ron

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

Based on the NHRA 2019 Rule Book the divisional series was set up for those that wanted to race closer to home. I believe the majority of the racers have typical 7 to 5 jobs, a set amount of vacation time each year, and a budget that has to be balanced between real life and racing.

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

A person can go to whatever races they want, but anything past #8 is just for fun. Best 5 of your first 8, with at least 3 being within your 'home' division that you claimed at the first race you attended.

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

You are correct. I missed that in the rule book initially. So any combination that includes at least 3 home division events.

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

Yes , for divisional

for national you claim your best five of eight

Greg

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

As was mentioned before, I live in the northern part of Division 2, until the recent add of a points race at Galot the actual closest race to me was Division 1 race at Dinwiddie but there is also another race at Cecil County that is closer than 2 of the races from my home division. Ofcourse if you are trying to run for points within your division you still have to claim atleast 3 races from your division.

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

I may be wrong, but out of div. races does not award the bonus points so it is a little advantageous to run the in-division races

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

Nope you're wrong on that one Keith, that's how Stott won the division this year was by the 2 bonus points he picked up in Oklahoma.

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

That figures, but I thought there was some incentive (other than the allstar points) to stay within the division.
My theory, just win them all and don't worry about it, lol

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

How are you awarded bonus points? I didn't see this in the rule book.

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

I am somewhat at a loss to understand what the point is that is being made here. My view was that NHRA for once was doing us a favor by letting racers pick and choose which divisionals were the most efficient and cost effective for them to travel to and accommodate their schedule. Please explain to me what the downside of allowing this is? Among other scenarios, staying for a divisional after a natl event sure beats the hell out of driving to an entirely extra event. Also, there are several racers up here in the cold and rainy North that choose to travel South early in the year to pick up races before our weather and racing season is viable. I have been racing divisionals since '86 so not exactly a newbie at this.

As a side note, I think years ago Charlie Taylor won 4 divisionals in one year, two were in division, two were out. If I remember right, they did not award him the divisional championship that year because he did not have the 3 in division requirement.

Jim Caughlin
SS 6019

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

Winner - 5
R/U - 4
Semi - 3
Quarter - 2
Eighth - 1

You'll notice that event winners get 95 or 105 points. Runner-up points end with a 4, etc.

Those 'little points' are the bonus points along with the standard 30 for first-round losers and then 10 points for each round won.

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

Last year Nat. at Va. less then 64 cars winner got 105 runner up got 84 and semi got 73

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

Winner gets 105 for 6 or 7 round events. 5 rounds drops to 95, 8 rounds goes up to 115.

At 7 rounds the runner-up would get 94, semis 83, etc.

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

Jim,

No point is trying to be made, sorry! I was curious as to the rational used to structure the points system and the awarding of points for both in-division and out-of-division races. Keeping in mind the divisional series was developed for racers to race closer to home, and allowing racers to choose a division that best fits their location.


Secondly, Is it fair to award a divisional championship to a racer who only competed in three of the six divisional home races when the 2nd or 3rd place finisher competed in all six. The 2 nd 3rd finishers appear to be penalized because they work, have limited vacation, and are balancing life and racing budgets, thus minimizing their ability to travel, etc. As I noted in the original post, 40% of the divisional winners from 2018 to 2008 would have been different if only in-division point were used, that's not a small percentage.

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

OK, that's makes sense. Thanks,

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

Lenny is a super class racer where there are 8 round races....there are NO 8 round races in stock or superstock....

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

^^^^ said the man that lost in the eighth round at the Class Nationals

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

So, why did you write this second paragraph about life being unfair?


This logic only works if the racer lives in the middle of the division.

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

Ouch, that's gonna leave a bruise!

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

GUMP,

I believe you mentioned "Life" in your first comment to this thread, and I don't believe life is unfair, do you? Furthermore, there has been some great points, as you mentioned, based on a racer's local with respect to the divisions, not sure if you read the entire thread.

NHRA has no control over where we live, our family situations or our finances. However, if the current layout of the divisions excludes a large number of racers from competing in a chosen division, then we should discuss a new structure?

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

Game on now......!!!

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

I think MJ is the only person that won seven rounds at a stock race and not win the race. I was just trying to help MJ remember his stealer performance at the first Class Nationals. As they say "The knees are the second thing to go and I can't remember what was the first is"

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

Two things I always remember Larry,....This was the same year as 9/11.....It was ABSOLUTELY the hottest I have ever been in my life....THANKS for the trip down memory lane Larry......

Re: Points and Related Programs
 

I just wanted to say thank you to all who provided comments. It sure gave me a better appreciation of what different racers are faced with and the rational behind the points system developed by NHRA.


I hope I get to meet all of you in person someday.

Bret