NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Was just looking at the new NHRA 2020 Rule Book amendment prohibiting spacers between the intake and the cylinder head.

They already allow sheet metal intakes and also two piece intake manifolds split in the middle in the class so what is the difference in having a spacer between the intake and cylinder head?

This will effect many cars including Mopar 383 with Chevy intakes, Ford FE with 351C intakes and AMC with Mopar intakes running spacers to fit these intakes.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

This has more to do with heads than intake manifolds.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

This will effect many cars including Mopar 383 with Chevy intakes, Ford FE with 351C intakes and AMC with Mopar intakes running spacers to fit these intakes.

You mean adapters?

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

I don't see anything prohibiting an extremely thick, metallic-core intake gasket.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

An MLS Head gasket is essentially a spacer with a gasket on each side when you get into the thicker gaskets (.050"+). How is a "metallic-core" intake gasket any different?

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Weld the spacer to the intake?

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

This has more to do with lazy engine "assemblers" than anything!

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

It was a joke, a-la "that isn't a spacer, Mr. Tech Guy. It's just a gasket with a very thick aluminum core."

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Oh, but who could you be referring to????

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

It seems clearly apparent who NHRA is focused on with this arbitrary change to one of the longest standing tenants of Super Stock eliminator racing. "Any intake manifold permitted provided unit is of the same configuration as original for carburetor used and will fit under original factory-produced, installed hood" has been one of the basic corner stones of Super Stock Rules since inception of the eliminator, dating to the early/mid-1970's. I'm just guessing but my money says they (NHRA) will expect the affected racers to be grateful that they "only" decided to make this change after almost 48 years of careful consideration.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

As it was just explained to me, the new rule applies to those who have an angled spacer plate being used to replace material that has been cut off at an angle on the intake side of the head. They will also be looking for the OEM angle between the intake side of the head and the block side of the head. That is what the +/- 2 degree allowance is about.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

" External modifications prohibited except for the following, intake side of head may be +/- 2 degrees from OEM angle between combustion chamber surface to intake flange surface, may not be cut into any part of valve-cover fastener holes (except for SS/AH). Intake manifold fastener holes must remain unaltered in their original location. Only OEM intake fastener holes are permitted, any additional fastener holes are prohibited. Spacer plates between intake manifold and cylinder head prohibited. Valve-cover fastener holes must remain unaltered and in their original location."

So, does the angle rule get exempted for the SS/AH cars, or is that just for the "valve-cover fastener holes"? It's not entirely clear to me for those cars. Since it is one long, run-on sentence, the exemption would seem to apply to the whole sentence and SS/AH.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

I maybe wrong but haven't the big block Mopar stocker guys been doing this since the Edelbrock head was allowed?

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

The intake manifold fastener hole lines have been deleted.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

No spacer plates on my Edelbrock heads, paper gaskets and valley pan.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Mopar 383’s with Chevy intakes???? Shouldn’t Mopars run Mopar intakes? Shouldn’t Fords run Ford intakes? How many Chevys run Mopar or Ford intakes? Doesn’t Edelbrock make intakes for Ford and Mopar??? In Super Stock, isn’t the engine combination supposed to match the make of the car? If it didn’t before, I guess it does now, huh!!!

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Why would that matter when sheet metal fab intakes are legal?

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Any intake manifold,don't screw with the intake surface of the head is how I understand it. Years ago when John Gunn was torn down NHRA wanted to look at his manifold and he told them no I'm allowed any intake and locked it in the trunk. He said you're not going to look at it and tell all your friends,he got the record and never showed the inside of the manifold.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

I don't think any racing style aftermarket manifolds were made for Cadillacs. Ken Sharp come to mind.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

...or Bob Dennis.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

I'd like to see a Chevrolet intake on a 383 Mopar. Two very different platforms, and there are plenty of decent enough Big Mopar intakes to not warrant the need for that.

That being said...on the Cadillac topic...Cad500parts.com has the answers to all your Cadillac high-performance questions.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

When Dave Smith (ProTrans) and his brother ran their 383 'Cuda many years ago, it had an adapted BBC intake.

The BBC has a pitch of 4.84 and the Mopar BB has 4.80. The port runner layout for both is: 00 00

How about fitting a 351-C intake on an FE engine? It can be done with the adapter shown below:


http://fepower.net/Products/HR1.jpg

Engine builders and racers can get creative in many ways.
Nevertheless, what is the fuzz all about when they allow sheet metal intakes?

As a matter of fact, Buicks are adapting Mopar intakes.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Didn't Ed Hamburger use to make and adapter to use a small block Chevy intake on a small block Mopar in the '70's?

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

As a matter of fact, you are correct! There are a few of those adapters still around.


https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar...pg.1715094689/

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

I am familiar with the port layout of the Big Mopar and the Chevrolet. I was looking at it more from a width aspect, as I know the 383/400 uses a fairly wide intake. I know to use a RB Chrysler intake on a B motor, you need .85" plates on each side of the intake, as I tried a B-1 intake vs. a Mopar M-1 a number of years ago. Bringing up the 383 Mopar/Chevy intake thing is kind of irrelevant though if they aren't even running the car anymore?

As for the Buick...that started in the late 1960's/early 1970...I believe Kennedy Bell made the plates.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

The intake manifold is not really the issue as I see it.

And, As I understand it, this is really just an attempt to stop creative port increases. If you don’t change the angle, then you would not be able cut as much off the head. to use a spacer as an extension of the intake port.

Maybe they should allow the heads with angles more than 2 degrees, but add in the volume of the spacer and add that to the port volume?

I am pretty sure anyone with heads that are modified that much know why they did it and what the rule means to them.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Everyone knows there are bogus cylinder heads out there in S/S. Looks like the Tech dept has finally found a way to rid the class of heads that have been drastically cut at a severe angle on the intake side. Those bogus heads usually used a spacer plate to make up for the difference from the OEM angle. In the 2020 racing season it will be very interesting to see who shows up to race and who does not.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Real Racers will race.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Angle milling heads has been a machine shop operation since the 1960's. Nothing new.

There are even automotive machining charts that gives you the average amount of milling required on an intake manifold when you deck and square an engine block and when you mill cylinder heads for proper combustion chamber sizing.

By the way, when the runner volumes are measured, it is done without the spacer. An approach would be to weld the spacer to the intake or use a sheet metal intake. Nevertheless, after decades of allowing the use of intake spacers on intake manifolds and angle milled cylinder heads, they are suddenly illegal just months prior to the first race of 2020.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

What do you mean by "real racers"? Can you elaborate?

In my book, anyone that spends the money and time to race in Stock and Super Stock class, is a real racer.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

You hold that thought if it makes you feel better.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

So, if you choose to run Super Stock with an odd ball combination and an aftermarket intake is not available for it, I guess your only "LEGAL" option is to have a custom sheet metal intake built to fit without any adapter or spacer plates. Also, whatever make combination you run, if there is an aftermarket intake made for your engine, you should use that intake. Period. Not adapt a Chevy to a Mopar, etc.

This was the point of my post!

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Really? the word "any" in the rule book under super stock says it all. We have been using all types of manifolds on our Dodge stuff for years...Including billets that I make...and the last time i checked "Jones" is not an OEM manufacture.

The stupid part of this whole thing is the people who think they know what the fast guys are doing are driving this train. The original addition to the rule that i submitted for that was approved and added to the rule book was then removed a couple months later ("Intake manifold bolt holes must remain in the OEM unaltered location").Then we get this new rule that is totally out in left field and basically eliminates a bunch of 60-80 under cars that have been racing for a long time under the original Super Stock rules. There has never been a rule on Intake flange angles and there shouldn't be one now.

The original intent of the rule I submitted for was to stop the guys that "Think" they know what the fast guys are doing from going way to far and turning it into SS/AH...and we all know where those head rules are now. When the smoke clears, the fast guys are still going to be fast. Anyone that was sold on the idea that adding this to the rule book would slow certain classes or engine combos down and bring it all back to normal has another thing coming.....

And just to clear the air, the 37 phone calls i got asking the question if Zavalas heads are done this way the answer is still no.... The ones that i have this way have been like that for well over 8 years and it has never been a problem before.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

NHRA, trying to shut the gate the baby piglets used, after they're full grown pigs. Typical.....

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

I was not questioning the word "any" in the rule book. I am simply saying, GM should use GM. Mopar should use Mopar. Ford use Ford. I don't understand anyone getting all upset over that. Should we allow this for Stock eliminator also?

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Lets hear a logical explanation for this.

If i buy and Edelbrock intake manifold (As my starting foundation) that i feel i can fit to 3 types of engines, And i build 3 different sets ups with 3 different part numbers and advertise them on my website as "Super Stock Intake manifolds" and they each have a part number for Ford, Chevy and Dodge would this fall under your opinion of a brand?

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

It's been awhile since I was in the business of retrofitting products, but I believe you are entitled, under US law, to list yourself as the manufacturer if you remove the original branding and make substantial changes to the product. Not sure what that means to nhra.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

I was in the late Dave Layers shop one afternoon and a pair of Edelbrock aluminum heads were laying on his table. I said "What are these". He said "These are going to be the new Chrysler heads." I'm now confused, and am asking "But their Edelbrocks?
He explains they will just restamp the heads with a Chrysler Pt. number. Those same heads are the ones on the FS cars like Mark Nowicki's. I don't think too many people realize this is how things are done, I certainly didn't. I knew about superseded parts, but not new parts developed buy the aftermarket, only to be restamped OEM.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

To answer your question, No. I've heard of brands like Edelbrock, Wilson and Hogans, but not Jones intakes. So those are brands to me. If you choose to take one of those brands and fabricate it, that's your choice. If it works for you, go with it.

I don't understand how my opinion on what intake should be allowed for what make is getting anyone upset??? I'm entitled to my opinion aren't I? I mean, I have had a competition number in NHRA for like 15 years now. I think that makes my opinion valid here. I'm on the track, year after year, competing with these other combinations. So I'm sorry if someone is offended by my opinion on this subject.

So, answer my question. Should we allow the swapping of intake makes and adapter plates in Stock eliminator?

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Bryan, this is the 21ST century. Please, don't give anyone any ideas.