Out of the loop in superstock....
 

A very well respected local racer made reference to a fluid dump in a superstock transmission. I realize I am out of the loop but....what exactly is this ? ?

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

Nothing new and nothing illegal..

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

When you don’t understand, or think someone is abusing, you scream foul. When really, you couldn’t make it work yourself.

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

Thanks for the timely reply but,.....can you explain to this dum Azz hillbilly what it is ??

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

There you go.. Much easier than me trying to explain this .

There was a guy with a 265 S/S car that had this deal in a PG about 30 years ago. He was trying to make his deal act like a 7" , off the line.


https://www.racepagesdigital.com/aut...own-the-track/


In any case , I don't see what there is to police.

Also ,a THM 200-C comes with a lock up converter..That's what the C denotes.

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

Sure he didn't say fluid pump?

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

Hughe has a pretty good tutorial on Youtube. Also called a Converter dump valve.

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

Actually Mr. Cour, this is another one of those things we have been told not to do.....just like the head modifications I showed you the emails of. Like I said.....different rules for different divisions.

I can't knowingly do something that is it illegal and expect to be able to throw a fit and get away with it. That's just not the way I roll.

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

Joey, so colluding with a sanctioning body, to oust a mod that has been stamped legal for years, just to feel good about your inability to innovate, is suppose to make you feel good?

Strange way of doing business, don't you think?

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

I don't see much need for it on most Super Stock cars.

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

Where in the rulebook does it state that a converter dump valve is illegal?

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

I'll answer that one, because it was answered to me. If the rulebook does not say you CAN do it, then you CAN'T.

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

Lol....the word innovation is sure getting used a lot in place of cheating.

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

I showed you the email of the rules we were told to play by, so yes sir....your stuff needs to get bounced in my eyes. I adhere to the rules as does my engine builder. We have to worry about winning races and therefore we need to worry about being legal in every division, not just 1 or 7.

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

And since we are at it.

Gas Ported pistons
Aftermarkets Cranks
Honda Journals
Chamber Mods

It all started in the same place, cheating is not innovation......its cheating no matter what his minions call it.

And as far as Jeff, hell yeah he did the right thing. He has customers spending 10s of thousands trying to run with people that hasn't ever been able to follow a rulebook. It came right out of your own mouth that you wouldn't ask permission.....well that sir doesn't make it right and it damn sure doesn't give you all the right to stop your feet when you get called out on it.

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

So with that logic, and just keeping it related to the transmission: We all have to remove our straight-cut/different than OEM ratio gearsets, take out our roller bearings and go back to bushings, remove our low volume front pump and put a stock one back on, make sure we run the correct number of clutches and steels that the OEM trans had, remove the aluminum drums and put the cast iron OEM ones back in etc etc etc ?

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

Mine has all of that stuff except the lower ratio first gear. One reason I am slow. LOL

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

No, because all those parts are replacement for original parts in the trans. A fluid dump valve is not and never has been a part of a transmission. Its new technology. As far as i know, only a th400 has been built right now with the technology. I could be wrong. It also mounts externally so it would be fairly easy to police.

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

I take that back, th400 and PG. I would love to have one in my stocker. Make the converter loose at the hit so it will 60' and then tighten it up down track to improve ET

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

I’m am literally LMAO! You’re stomping your feet right now. The rule book gets updated every time Jeff and the D3 posse cry to NHRA.
Jeff has been caught cheating numerous times....delay boxes, bigger cic than claiming, so your point is.....well.....laughable!

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

Then I guess I have on the same horse blinders as you do.

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

Did you consult with NHRA before you put them on?

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

Ya know, I doubt that you'll find many Racers that are as hard-core as I am when it comes to interpreting the rule book. And I know that I haven't raced in SS since before most of you were born but I still have my SS number so I'm gonna guess that I can comment on this deal.
I've read the rule book on SS auto transmissions and I don't see why a "fluid dump" would be illegal. If you want to start splitting hairs then in reality a transbrake is a "fluid dump" and for that matter, so is an E-shift. NHRA seems much more concerned as to how you're releasing that transbrake then what you're doing with your pump pressure. Now if you are in some way manipulating your pump pressure to cause some kind of a "delay" in your transbrake release then I would think that you're doing something illegal.
Just my $.02.

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

Nope, Monkey see, Monkey do.

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

And I don't like being called a minion ...LOL.
If you look at a 1970 rulebook, you won't find sections on vacuum pumps, delay boxes, nitrous oxide, digital recorders, tranny brakes and the long throw buttons, blinders. Even radial tires was a huge step forward. Do you think that every single person that came up with these items (and tons and tons more), were "cheating"? IMO they were just using the rules in place to further their advantage. Eventually, new rules were written to regulate most of them. But they didn't let it go YEARS before implementing new rules. That's the thing here, there's a lot of money laying on the table. Good Lord, you built one yourself right? There's more of these engines out there than anyone's thinking. From multiple engine builders. I've had phone calls from two racers that are in the same boat as the minions camp.

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

He might have, my hearing isn’t what it used to be

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

Back to the subject at hand...
Only two rules for S/S automatic transmissions.
(Maybe this is three)

1a,
Must be from the same parent company
1b,
Must bolt to to engine block without an adapter.

2, No centrifugal lock up converter ..i.e , the Griner / Coan unit from 40 years ago.

If some tech person told anyone that they couldn't the fluid path internally, then you probably should have never asked.

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

I agree with all of you. I don't care if the valve is legal or not. I just know that NHRA likes the grey areas to fall on their side of their fence. Hence when they say "if it doesn't say you CAN, then you Can't" . I installed an onboard air compressor system in my stocker(cause i'm horrible at checking tire pressure lol). It doesn't say in the rule book that I CAN have one, nor does it say that I can't have one, but I was told NO in stock, superstock ok but not Stock. GREY area, no specific wording against but also no wording saying its allowed.

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

Back to the aforementioned......LOGIC........it is comatose.......in Glendora!

Re: Out of the loop in superstock....
 

People, are working on internal version as we type. AND the dump valve has been around for 70 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydramatic