"Old School" Stocker Cams
 

I was reading the Jr. Stock book by Doug Boyce and came across where a guy went down to Lunati's shop to pick up a Stocker cam for his 56 Chevy M/SA car and how the Lunati cam really woke up the 265 and how he was able to run under the record with it.

Having somewhat of a idea on how the old Stock duration and stock lift cams worked, I would like to hear more about how these camshafts worked including with the stock valve spring rules?

This is just for winter discussion fun..Thanks !

Will Lamprecht
65 Impala 396/325
Have Jerico for it.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

They actually checked lift and duration. Also checked springs.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

The best cam that I ever had in my 307 Chevy was an old CamDynamics Jr. Stock cam. As best I can remember it was a 929-G.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

Also part of the spec was "checking clearance" The duration was measured after the lift at the valve hit the opening checking clearance then finished when the lift was at the closing checking clearance . It was good to have" big" checking clearances sent in by the factory . Overlap was checked the same way . NHRA tech had a really trick Degree Wheel that simplified the checking process .

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

Our Div 4 head tech inspector, Red Anderson, was also a good machinist. He made, and sold a really trick degree wheel.
I had one of those Lunati Jr Stock cams in my ‘56 when I set one of my records. During tear down Red told me “this thing does hit the numbers, but the ramps are way fast. I’m going to pass it this time, but we both know it’s wrong. I don’t want to see it again.
Ran just as fast with a Cam Dynamics, which Red liked better next time he tore me down. The Lunati looked like a roller cam. Almost square lobes. LOL

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

The "square lobe" cam profiles are known as "dwell" lobes. With a dwell lobe, you can basically put a lifter on top of the lobe and it will not fall off!

Don Teweles at General Kinetics, along with Joe Lunati were pioneers on dwell lobe Stocker camshafts in the early days. Cam Dynamics also created many Stocker dwell cams that were crazy fast too.

After Don shuttered General Kinetics, my preferred brand was Cam Dynamics when Glen Steyer's was still at Crane Cams.

Let's not forget that in the early days, although they checked duration, lift and overlap, the OEM's had submitted some crazy camshaft specs too, especially regarding overlap.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

327ci /275hp

We ran a 929-D....

Wild and crazy guys who wanted to run a valve spring killer

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

I am confused? The cam in my 396/325 BBC has that "'square lobe" being only a .398 lift cam too. Isn't that due to the duration in the cam? So if you had too use Stock durations back then..how could they have square lobes? I was thinking they changed the LSA from stock for more overlap..

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

Lift stays the same it just gets to max lift quicker and stays there longer until it slams back down on the seat....

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

George Widuch had a huge influence in the design and testing of the early Stock and Super Stock cams from Lunati. George is brilliant.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

I still run the same old square lobe cams that I ran in 80s -90s
that Richard @ Isky used to build for me in all my Stockers.
Not easy on the valve train but I still run Schubeck lifters and plenty
of spring pressure. I am old school.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

Don Studley worked with Richard in developing a lot of those lobes, especially the Mopar Small Block cams. I believe Don's car was the test bed for the Isky Cams pieces.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

I still have an Isky cam in my 340. I got it from Don Studley in 1998. Isky had two, if you ordered one from them you got their grind and if you ordered one from Don you got his grind. I had both and Don’s was faster.
Does Isky still make stocker cams?

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

Not that I know of anymore......I still have a 1/2 dozen or more extra. Also have one in Jon's 400 and it is pretty fast too.

My old friends (RIP) Don Studley and Al Etter generated the FAST cams. I wish I know today 1/10 of what they used to
know......Al was my BEST FRIEND. He had a bedroom in his home set up for me to come down and work on my stuff
with his help.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

Rollers for everyone! Cost effective and makes sense for everyone based on on the the current evolution on the rule book.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

Where's the DIS-like button!!!!!!
Frank, I know that you're kidding.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

Last days to get stupid suggestions of 2019 in. This guy didn’t wait. That’s good. All those who don’t race Stock shouldn’t get to make any suggestions about rule changes for those who do.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

George Widuch is still one of my "Go To Guys" for help.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

Well we are half way there with Roller Rockers..

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

Not even close.

After the valve spring rules were relaxed, stock rockers were mandated for several years. Finally allowing quality after market rocker arms was a common sense rule change.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

Thanks Hoven for your nice compliment. "This guy" thought you had more class than that, I guess I'm wrong on both counts.

Would it not be less expensive to run roller cams than a billet mechanical cam and unreliable lifters?

The Stock Eliminator rule book changed forever with the liberalizing of cam duration and valve springs.

You guys are already spending big money.

It's just food for thought.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

Forum; a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

Wait, Wait, Wait....

"Forum; a place, meeting, or medium where antiquiated
ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged, discussed and clinged to"

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

I can tell ya the High Riser FE's liked the Crane Z300 cam

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

This type of thinking is what’s killing the Stock Class IMHO
Stuff like trying to make stamped steel rockers work,finding ones with good enough ratios,making them live for example was very interesting from a enigineering stand point,just bolting in aftermarket rollers to make it easy and cheap for everyone is pointless in a Class like this to me
Opening my hood with Edelbrock heads and(intake) and showing my roller rockers when the covers are off just isn’t STOCK to me

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

I'm a Stock Eliminator purist through and through and with the liberalization of the rules the past thirty years and we all know the clock will not be turned back or the changes rescinded.
If there can be mechanical lifters for everyone, why not rollers? I hate it and believe me I do, but it now makes sense to me from a cost standpoint.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

This might be a dumb question, but is there a performance advantage with a roller cam, or just a maintenance/reliability advantage? The roller meeting present stocker specs, of course.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

Listen, it’s a bad idea. When guys are breaking flat tappets and other valvetrain parts it’s time to get help from someone who knows what they are doing, because they don’t . Or they need to ramp up their maintenance program. Changing the rules for racers that can’t build reliable engine is stupid. I’ve made about 200 runs with the Coronet. It has a flat tappet cam as per the rules, and we have never broken a valvetrain part during my time as the driver. It’s a Hemi in that with not the best valvetrain geometry. So there is a great example of when something is assembled with the right parts how good the reliability can be.

Not really worried about an internet discussion how I’m perceived about this. I think it’s a bad idea and I spoke up about it.

So you think just allowing roller lifters is going to make this a cheap sport and make everybody reliable? You don’t think anybody’s going to exploit that and make the engines run harder than they do right now with these new parts? Then we all have to buy a roller lifters and roller cam to keep up. Then we all have to buy roller lifters and roller cams to keep up. How many good Stock eliminator racers are looking for a roller lifters for their engine? More or less than 10? Wie will have 10,000 RPM 396s, then how much money are we going to spend to keep up with them? BTW, you can get quite a bit of performance out of lower valve spring pressures if the right parts are used.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

So now we have Modified Stock....!
Roller Rockers, Mechanical Tappet or Roller Lifters, any Spring Rate,
There is Limited Lift but with unlimited Duration, MassagedHead$$$

More speed means more safety items....
Wheelie Bars, Roll Cages, gutted Interiors, Special Seats, Harnesses.
Beefed up Transmissions Parts, Custom Converters, Deeper gear sets, Micro Polishing, special gasoline. Then you need much better Brakes.

AND everyone tormented me because for pushing Pure Stock !!
That Class was fun and affordable.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

If the valve spring pressure were reduced, after a period of adjustment there would be no more carnage than allowing roller lifters and it would be a whole lot cheaper for the majority of racers.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

I’ve seen roller lifters break and destroy engine parts. Flat tappets are usually pretty reliable. You can run roller lifters in SS. Leave them there. Race a stocker in SS with a roller cam then

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

[QUOTE=Todd Hoven;605087]
We will have 10,000 RPM 396s, then how much money are we going to spend to keep up with them?[QUOTE]

Don't get me started on the most under factored combination in Stock Eliminator.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

Hey lets get back to the Old School stock cams original thread. Just went to over to the vintage cams shelf in my garage and I've got a General Kinetics sbc cam clc -431 f stamped on the end. What era is that from?

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

From the guy who won't spend 10 cents to make his "race" car quicker...

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

I heard that the original "cheater" stocker cams came about when Joe Lunati took high lift cams and cut off the top of the lobes to max allowable lift. He then used a belt sander to round off the edges until the engine would reach the desired rpm.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

We ran a Lunati "Jerry Stein Special" in our Max Wedge. I don't remember the part number.
There was also a cam from Isky, the 1012-B.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

Actually the original cheater cams came about when Bill Jenkins could not get a new OEM camshaft from Chevrolet to pass NHRA's specs. (For the "Monster Mash" 55 Chevy I believe.) He went to General Kinetics with the problem and they ground a cam that would pass. In the process, they also added in some area under the curve and voila!

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

We had to use stock valve springs. NHRA checked both open & closed spring pressures.
Those lobes (at least what I used) were valve spring killers. GM springs were dead at the end of one weekend. TRW springs were usually good for three races.

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

Let’s see.....started out as G/PS
Ran 13.65 on 14.10 index in heat, 13.20 on good day.
Drove to countless bracket race events on the East Coast for 20 years.
Including all the IHRA races and Class Nationals.
Empire, Pittsburgh, Richmond, Budds Creek, Lebanon Valley, Island Dragway, Numidia, Beaver Springs, 75&80, Mason Dixon
Changed all 4 wheels to racing tires and wheels.
Back to street to go to motel and back to racing set next day.
Mounted Street tires and back home.
Because that is what I had.

Last Three years tow with a 1994 Caprice wagon and Featherlight trailer.
Took a bit to make it safe and reliable.
Oh and the discoveries of towing, owning and maintaining a trailer.

Just before trailering moved up to F/PS.
Every year found 2 tenths improvement and documented it.

F/PS index 13.75..! Best 12.47 at 107 mph on a good day.
Hot days can run within 2 tenths of the K/SA index, Atco, Cecil a 10th.
Still has a couple more in it too..and going to find them..
Always fiddling and finding incremental improvements..
Goal is to run the 12.65 index on a hot day set up as a Pure Stocker.

But Guess you are right again..!
I do not spend 10 cents, 10 dollars or thousands on anything !
I invest !

I have a real Stocker...you have a Super Stock Light car..
Or is it Called Modified Stock now...!?

At least my car is not so sensitive that it cannot be bracket raced.
Doesn’t need special gas, new harnesses every wink of an eye.
Or Wheelie Bar, Cage, or that fancy sputter putter take off technology.

As for spending money?
How come you are not racing a REAL race car ...
...... like a AA Fuel Dragster or Funny car? :eek:
What is the matter you cannot spend the money?

Life is short...I am out to have fun..you are not part of the arithmetic!
I attend S/SS association and Club races where I am welcomed.

I am not here on this planet to meet someones pathetic specious concept...
I do things my way..and been damn successful..

If NHRA doesn’t want my business it goes elsewhere.
And I will invest in those Races..!

I do not need NHRA. .....they need US!

D

Re: "Old School" Stocker Cams
 

I started this thread just to learn what made a Stock "cheater cam" different than a factory cam using the same lift and duration..

I see it evolved into a discussion about roller cams in stock.

I am running the same 396/325 HP engine I ran in my 68 Impala back in 2003-2006, at that time the index was 12.50 in I/S which I ran. I would go 11.70-11.80's , 6 to 7 tenths under. I used stamp steel rocker arms which was the rule then. "Everybody" told me BBC always broke rocker arms..in over 100 passes with that motor never broke a rocker arm. I used Crane rocker arms, nothing special, not even "long slot" since I only have .398 lift.

"Everybody" also told me the car would be a parts breaker running a stick in a heavy car...(4095 lbs in I/S) I broke one set of gears, that was only because I used a set of street gears 4:88 at first, swapped to Pro gears, never had a problem after that.

Since then the index has been changed to a quicker 12.20..3 tenths quicker. Running the same motor in my 65 Impala now, do I think roller rockers, or lets say a roller cam, will make up that 3 tenths difference? I don't think so.. I decided to go back to running a stick too..same set up I had back in 2003-2006 I know I still left some ET on the table with my clutch settings and 60ft times.

So most probable you will see low valve covers with stamped steel rocker arms under them. I do have a set of "chinese" roller rockers I can use, but rather spend my $ right now getting rest of stick stuff I need..bellhousing, shifter, Z-bar, pedals ect. instead of a good set of roller rockers..plus need to get longer rocker studs for those. Plus I still will be using Shubeck "hydraulic" lifters..even though I guess I can use true solid lifters now. oh, I also need to buy a trailer too, just "refurbished" my 1977 Chev C30 to tow with, which I used back in 2003-2006

So I guess my point is you can allow me to use upgraded stuff like roller cams, but for now I will be showing up with a "old school" motor that instead of running 7 tenths under I should go 3 to 4 tenths under..another reason to run a stick. Less heads up then.

I am just going to be happy racing again!

Will Lamprecht
G/H/I Stock 65 Impala 396/325