How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

As an old racer who started racing in 1961 when there was mainly class racing, I would like to see an increase in Stock and Super Stock quotas and a drastic decrease in those damn throttle stop classes. I know a lot of great drivers come out of those classes but nobody wants to watch them except their competitors. I talk to a lot of old racers who will never go to a National event and for sure not a divisional race because of the hundreds of "stumble bum" cars, (my wife's word for them) Just the sound of them makes me sick to my stomach! Sorry for the rant but I would rather see Pro bracket and Super Pro bracket racers than those damn "Super?" things. Just think, with less of them we could have class eliminations at every event! I could dig that! Just an old racers thoughts who did race until 6 years ago at 70 years old.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

I try not to run near the end of Super Street, otherwise on the way back to the trailer I'm having to dodge all of the spectators rushing to the stands for Stock Eliminator.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

I took my uncle to a race once, he'd been to sports car races before but not drags. He seemed interested in what was going on until SuperGas came out then was totally dumfounded at what was going on. "That seems like maybe the fuel pump was turned off" or "maybe the throttle cable broke".

I had already explained to him about the car getting there first breaking out and losing for being too fast.... which seemed a very strange concept to him but this launching hard them idling, then back on the gas thing was nothing he'd ever have understood.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Super class (index) racing started out running flat out.Some where down the road throttle stops were introduces and allowed so we're just playing by the rules. I would rather run a super class with out a TS but that's not happening.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

There are many ways to slice that apple to .90. NHRA wants to do less work and the Super classes and Top classes allow them the luxury. There are fewer tech guys that know what is what on a stocker these days. When they shot Modified Elim. between the eyes, that was the beginning. Dam I am getting old.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Have run Super Street with some success over the years and for me the old pre-throttle stop days were more fun but pretty clear it’s hard to win without a throttle stop today. Years ago when Mike Coughlin won SG at Indy with essentially a throttled Pro Stock car it unfortunately started a seemingly irreversible trend. Still, I enjoy watching Super Street class, great variety of cars, with Vogelsang winning in a low MPH car (plus the amazing low MPH lenco Camaro of Tim Nicholson) so at least there is some variety. No, I don’t wish for our quota increases to be at their expense. The PRO entourage is what eats up pit space and they could run more class cars if they forego the tee shirt cannon stuff. If someone doesn’t want to see the Super classes run there’s plenty more ways to spend the time.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

I like most kinds of drag racing - they are all challenging in their own way - and find the variety of things one can do on a simple dragstrip to be interesting. Some are about performance, some are about precision; both of which appeal to me.

I may think that some of what is being done is crap, but I mostly stay quiet about it and remain grateful that those folks show up and spend the money that keep the tracks, parts manufacturers, machine shops, chassis shops and anyone else involved gainfully employed - and keep butts in the seats.

No body gets here and gets to be successful at their chosen pursuit without paying some dues. Wishing for a certain group to disappear isn't helpful to anyone. It's bad enough that there are people sitting in boardrooms who have the power to keep people from participating and regardless the method or reasons that make sense to them, they're doing it.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

As much as I would like to see more quota in the stock and super stock classe the .90 cars have earned their place. They race hard and are dedicated to their type of racing. I do think that they need a pretty good index adjustment of at least .5 to get them off of the stop for such a long delay. Might make it less boring at least in SG. The SC dragster parade is terminally boring no matter what they do with that class.10:0, 9.0 and 8.0 might be some better indexes for those classes and be more in line with what they are actually capable of running.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Nothing worse than ENTITLEMENT .....

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

I'd like to think we are all in this together. To each their own, let's enjoy what's left for as long as we can. Participation at all levels helps us all, just my opinion.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

If I had my way, I'd make the "Super" Classes more performance based. Maybe limit the engine sizes. Why do you "need" 600 or 700 inches to go 8.90 or 9.90. I know why they do it, but they don't need to do it. Making them "cruise" a little less can't hurt, can it? If done correctly, wouldn't it look a little more like a race, not a practice tree/timer competition?

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

No motivation for NHRA to change the classes, limiting engine sizes is just more rules for tech officials to enforce which is contrary to the direction they’re going. They are a “cash cow” more so than us because they don’t require much tech and they fill their quotas. The cow is already out of the barn on this one. But do think no burnouts across the line in SC would be a start.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Was Super Comp more of a spectator draw 20 years ago when they were mostly 8.30 cars and not the 7.50 cars of today? No, the cruise time doesn't matter. The spectators don't watch Pro Stock either.

Lowering the indexes will push out the slow cars, and maybe that would be fine if there were some sort of benefit on the other end but I can't think of any.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

From someone who got their start in the Super classes and still have alot of friends racing there I can't think of anything more offensive as to what was said here. I can't think of any of them that has ever said anything similar to what was suggested here either. Every racer chooses their style of racing and what interest some may not interest someone else but it doesn't make it any less important as far as the sport goes.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Well said.
I continue to compete in Super Gas because it affords me the time to spend working on all the Stock and Super Stock cars I build, both at the track and the shop.
That said ,I would love to see the Index lowered a substantial amount ,NHRA made a huge mistake by not lowering them as Horse Power became easier to build or buy We arent running TRW pistons and Factory castings and cranks any more. my choice would be by more than a second . I believe the classes should be 7.90 -8.90 -9.90 . or maybe even .60's !

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

What would be accomplished by doing that, Tom? Just making the club more exclusive?

The people who can afford to would just buy bigger stuff, although they probably have enough horsepower already.

At least with Stock/Super Stock, the rules force a little more innovation and smarts to run the index. Can't just throw in a bigger bullet.

For me, there is no difference in the amount of fun between a wide open pass and a throttle stop pass. Sure, the number on the slip isn't impressive but it's just a target. I don't see why we'd want to lower the index just to push people out.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

I might catch some flak over this, but I always thought one of the Super categories should be a "no electronics" eliminator (just like the original Pro Gas series from way back when that started all of this). I think it would be interesting, but what do I know? :)

Wayne

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

They included some of the no electronics index classes 8.50. 10.00 and 1150 at some division one races not a big turn out

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Wayne , I'd love to see them follow the Nostalga Gasser rules . 2 step and air shifter . dead bolt restrictor plate or weight to hit the number

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

I would love for a .90 guy or gal to post a thread about “let’s limit the Stock & SS cars” at National Events. This site would explode and people would be throwing rocks at each other. Seriously, does it matter what we race? Unless it’s Indy the stands are empty for pretty much all Sportsman racing except maybe the Factory Stock guys. We honestly need to support each other no matter what you run, just be glad we have places to race and cars to race with. In the past week here on the EC we’ve had one track close and another discontinue its bracket program. Did NHRA drop the ball on limiting the et’s and speeds on the .90 cars...yes but, it’s too little, too late. You put sponsor dollars in front of NHRA and they grab it, so when you have a throttle stop company who wants to give cash for running their products, they go for it because when that cash isn’t used...where does it go (I know where it goes). We’re a product of our own demise, people forget that the goal of what we do is 8.90, 9.90 or 10.90...the win light doesn’t come on if you go 180mph in SG, we’ve just made that the “norm” if you want to win in the .90 classes and in the process have forced people out of the sport and out of .90 racing because of the cost.

I know one thing, don’t take a boat ride with Bob, because if the ship is sinking, he’s bailing and leaving us all to drown!

Rob K.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

One admittedly OLD former racer makes an insulting post about .90 racing and others pile on and make it sound like Stock and SS is the recipe to make drag racing great again...…

Well it is not the recipe and as an OLD guy whos raced most all the categories...….I agree with Rob 100%

We need to support each other and what we have because we are losing racetracks and have lost racetracks for many years.....

I won't bash Stock and SS because I enjoy watching it and the many friends I have who do race those categories....

I race .90 cars because I can.....and no matter what anyone thinks it is very good racing......

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Not sure which thread you read, Rich, but I thought the responses in defense of all types of racing have been somewhat encouraging.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Ok maybe I went to far when I said others pile on, but some did immediately agree about .90 racing being a form of racing they didn't care for or the spectators would also not care for....


BREAKOUT racing is what spectators don't get and never will and it doesn't matter what category that is....

Nobody would really argue that the modern timed throttle stop used in all the .90 categories isn't contrary to "drag racing" and does not look like drag racing to the casual observer...


We are racing under a different set of rules....and racing against each other and the clock.....and the timed throttle stop proved to be an advantage so nearly everyone uses it....

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Just wondering how do the quota numbers for the super classes compare to Stock/SuperStock

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Check it out....
https://www.nhraeventreg.com/ListEventStatus.asp

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

http://www.nhra.net/2020/images/NHRA..._NE_Quotas.pdf

The 'sportsman quota' varies by event, but the quota is always equal for Super Stock, Stock, Super Comp, and Super Gas.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Separate the pros and alky cars from the sportsman racers and I hate the electronics, but you have to use them. ss and stock are bracket racers with rules. I am moving from sg to bracket racing mo money. I love ss and stock racing, I have a lot friend running both

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

In hindsight the Super Classes propel NHRA to dump Modified Eliminator, except they called it Pro Gas..those 55 Chevy's all over the magazines. Pro Gas turned into the Super classes. NHRA thought more popular with the fans than Modified..

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Those “super classes” are money makers for NHRA, many entrants, no tech issues, etc. I can not imagine NHRA ever wanting to limit them.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

I don’t agree with the notion we need to get rid of super classes to get higher quota numbers for stock and super stock. I’m not a huge fan of that type of racing but I have many friends who race in those classes and they deserve to be there just as the other classes.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Old Timer Here, Guys:
I enjoy watching, have raced, and have numerous friends in the .90 Classes. I agree that we all deserve a place in the NHRA system. While I can offer no more suggestions to the overcrowding issues than what has been suggested here on this forum, if NHRA, DID INDEED, think that .90 classes would be more popular, they were SORELY incorrect.

There was nothing more fun than watching a round of high-revving Modified Eliminator qualifying or eliminations.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

As for Modified Eliminator…
...Vinny explains it best :D
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...A082&FORM=VIRE

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

As much as we all loved Modified Eliminator and it never should have been dropped when it was, I believe it would have slowly died or dwindled anyway...

To much breakage and expensive to stay competitive....and I was involved with cars that ran it so I know first hand.....I saw guys quit after breaking an engine and just say enough is enough.....

Competition eliminator is the modern day equivalent of modified and just look at the car counts there at many races.....unsustainable ….

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

You guys are also talking about them dropping Modified Production in the early 80’s. When the .90 classes started it was an affordable way to get into racing for most and there were no throttle stops at the time so fans enjoyed it. “WE” did it to ourselves and NHRA just let it go, it’s like telling your kid to go to the market to get milk and bread and they come home with candy, doughnuts & soda. If they wanted to keep it in check, they would have set a mph limit, cubic inc limit on motors or lowered the index’s. It got out of hand and because it’s still a money maker for NHRA, $320 to enter for $1,800 to win and you’re taking 50-70 cars per class, why get rid of it?

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

A friend sent me a link for this, about wet my pants laughing! Thanks!!

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Modified was getting expensive at the time. When they started the super modified classes there was a increase back on car count. I went from E/mp to C/SM. The 1977 Summer Nationals at Engishtown had 104 cars in just C/SM. Back then I set a budget of $5,000 for the year when that was exhausted the racing stopped for that year. Now gas and tolls exceeds that.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

That’s what’s getting out of hand is the tolls. They really need to start putting a cap on how much they can charge you.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

There is no way there ever was 100 cars in C/SM at any event.....including the SummerNats.

30 yes, give or take a few.....right around that era...late 1970's....I was there and we raced C/SM and got down to 4 cars in class in 1978 or 1979.
We

We were number 3 qualifier in Modified Eliminator behind Garley Daniels and Billy Mansell..... before being DQ'ed for a minor head issue.....

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

I've never have ran in any .90 class. Just Stock and E.T. racing. NHRA changes the way we compete, change the indexes, add and remove parts.
I thought when Super Street was born. It allowed the local racer a chance to compete at their home track. The class has obviously changed and with all the electronics. The super classes have really become handicap racing again but at the finish line. Throw the electronics out and put a dial in on the windows.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

I raced C/SM many times when there were more than 30 C/SM cars. Running class at national events, there were enough rounds, it was like running Modified Eliminator. Enough C/SM cars to be it’s own eliminator. Indy had over 50 cars in class run offs one year I was there.