13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

I wanted to bring this one up here where more folks would see it and comment.



http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=75812


(personal opinion to follow)

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

My son in his High School Days did pretty fair......Finished 3rd in Div 7 AND
went to AllStars. He raced a 78 Aspen Wagon N/O/P 318 (Around 2011)

I still race it when I do not feel good enough to race the faster cars.
I got runner up at Sonoma (2018).

12 Seconds of total abject Boredom........

Then a Second of Complete Panic!

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

Back then I wasn't class racing, but in 85, 86 when I was bracket racing a 68 Belvedere with a Slant 6 running 18's - 19's was when I had the most success. What I heard the most was that people couldn't stand just sitting there watching me get away & would redlight or sleep. A lot of people hated that car. :rolleyes::rolleyes: Took it to the bracket finals in 86 & runner upped in the ROC to Worm.

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

Wasn't the one-tenth-breakout rule in effect, then? -Al

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

Zero breakout allowed in 1974 except for heads-up run.

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

Thanks for clarifying, Dwight. Do you remember what years the one-tenth breakout was in effect? Thanks! -Al

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

Just an observation that 1974 was before 9" slicks were allowed in Stock eliminator, so the lower class cars tended to have a traction advantage especially considering changing tracks and weather. That may have had a heavy influence on the popularity of lower classed cars. I know it did for me. Higher horsepower cars had problems being consistent.

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

My 73 Z/S Vega won a lot. 16.30 average

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

Interesting.
Do you think you could hit the tree better and more consistently with the light, stick car, as compared to say, what you have now?

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

Before the 9 inch slick there was a "street " tire M&H had 10/12 inch rear tires that had different compounds . Like the slicks..The .1/10 rule i believe was from the late 60's early 70's in Jr Stock (Tom Kasch)
Dave Young would have some info on that .Also we had to dial the MPH too.Take away the sand baggers

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

As I recall you could run a 12 inch Street tread tire or
a smaller Slick.

I am finally after 10 years freshening up the Wagon a bit.......
I would like to see the Old Gal back into the 11's again!

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

M&H made an L60-15 that had 10" tread and an M50-15 that had 12" tread and available in a stick-shift and automatic compounds. Both were DOT stamped to meet the rules. These were the predecessors to today's DOT race tires. The 9" slicks were not legal under 1975.

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

Did we have a 7 Inch Slick back then?

My memory is not what it used to be now!

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

No. The popular 7" Firestones kinda went away with Junior Stock. Once slicks came back in 1975 , some of us went back to Stock.
Some of the East Coast guys like W.A. Lee, found some 7 inchers in a warehouse, and ran them on the heavier wagons. Of course, they were faster than the 9's,...at about 30 psi !

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

Uh, don’t forget the ever popular 7” JC Penny slicks. At least one pair found its way to Lousville, Ky......

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

Penny foremost Slicks

I think I paid $42 pr.

They worked great with my stock converter!

Their Auto Center was two block from my house!

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

Yes sir

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

I was hoping YOU were going to tell us.

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

I've been holding my breath waiting for YOU!

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

Okay..Story time, boys and girls

Let's start with the Jr. Stock era. 13 to 16 second cars were quite popular then. Car Craft and other mags did many articles on them . The average working guy ,who couldn't afford a new muscle car, could get together with his buddies and build a lower class car in his driveway.
Some of these guys did quite well at the national events too. Names like Boertman, Hedworth, Barkley, Ripes, Neja, and Dilcher come to mind.

Starting in 1972 , NHRA threw a monkey wrench into the works. Jr Stockers were pushed into Super Stock. New indexes were created, which were to become new national records.
Still , if your lower class car got a decent break, you could do alright in eliminations.
At the 72 Summernationals, the last three remaining SS cars were Larry Nelson, winner (SS/T), Anthony Cieri , runner up (SS/Q) , and yours truly, (SS/PA) Not a traditional, fast SS car in sight.

Next, we come to the flat out era of 1975-76. With no breakout in effect, we saw lots of "index beaters" of the slower persuasion

Sometime later on, NHRA started handing out a bunch of free tech goodies. The indexes were not lowered, correspondingly . Eventually, the whole field could run under and just dial it in. I'll call this the "ET racing" era.
A few guys with 10 second cars began to do quite well, in leave second, come from behind mode. It became an unwritten rule that you had to be a chaser in this style of racing. More and more 9 and 10 second cars appeared on the scene.

It is my opinion that , if a guy can afford to go to 7-8 divisionals, that many nationals, and chase points, he can probably afford a fast car too. Why not? It's more fun, plus we know now, you can't win anything with those slow things..Right, Billy?

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

Sounds pretty good to me Yac. The "free tech goodies" definitely helped out the faster, less "restricted" combos a bunch more than it did the "lower class" combos.

I think that another "issue" that helped do away with many of the "lower class" and stick combos is/was NHRA's decision to do away with the rule automatically allowing Class Winners in at Indy. That ruling definitely hurt diversity in Stock and SS.

I am glad to see the effect of NHRA's 302 FFFord boo-boo in getting a(FFF)ordable combos built and raced. The 305s and 318s have been getting built and raced also after some HP help. It sure would be nice to see someone in the Tech Dept. "Champion" an effort to fix some obsolete and extinct combos. It couldn't hurt NHRA to make some more combos affordable.

Now as far as being able to afford to go to Divisionals and Natls., that could be a bit more of a problem. But, you can always bracket race a Stocker! Ya can't class race a bracket car.

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

So Yac, do you think that in the 21st century a 13 or 14 (or 15 or 16 or 17) second Stocker can be competitive against a 9 or 10 (or 8) second car?
Tell us how you "really" feel!

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

Yes..."but" It always comes down to consistency ...of the driver and the car.

I will say that ,with a faster car, you're more likely to pick up a win light, here and there, with the 1st red light business, or when the slow car is inconsistent or tries to hold a few and then judge the finish line.
On the other hand , with a slow car, if you don't have the light going for you, you're down there , floundering around , trying to tighten up the finish line..Very, very hard to do against the big mph 8, 9, 10 second cars .
I think the big picture here is this observation from a former World Champ.
"I look at it this way. It's a percentage game..Leave on time and run close to your dial in, and you'll win more than you lose"
That holds true, no matter what end of the spectrum you're on.

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

Mark Y, I see at the bottom of your last post you chose to make a political statement about Tara Reade, does that also mean you believe the dozen of women who accused Trump.

This is a racing site and needs to stay that way.

Ken, you need to decide if this stuff stays off of here or open the door for everyone's views.

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

Fact is, that signature has been up for about a week. Yours is the first comment about it, either way. Might be something different next week.
Other than that, if you'd like to know exactly why it's there, you can always PM me.
NO more comment from me about it ,on this thread.
Meanwhile, would you like to discuss the subject matter?

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

Mark, doesn't matter how long it's been up, you knew it was political when you posted it, you also know there is a political section and that's where it belongs,.

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

I believe Tara Reade as well.................

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

I only see that the rules for "The Lounge" sub-forum state "no politics". Maybe I missed a different politics sub-forum? I see posts that imply that politics should go there (The Lounge). I'm good with no politics anywhere on ClassRacer. Just my opinion, of course.

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

... Jim B`s "Gold Digger".
Mike A114

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

This is all starting to seem like never ending re-runs of "The Twilight Zone"!

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

Alas, poor Tara Reade had a meltdown the other day. Seems she never filed a sexual harrassment complaint with any Congressional enforcement office like she said. And she can't remember who she made the complaint against. But now Faux News, Mark, HP Hunter and millions of other fanboys of Trump have egg on their faces. In reality Tara needs help and hopefully she will get it soon. She's a sad case.

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

Looks like you guys took a hard hit today :D

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

How did that stupid statement get on a thread about13's, 14's vs 9's, 10's, you guys never rest do you

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

Are you talking about the interview with Megyn Kelly? And if so, do you think that is/was a hard hit? Do you expect her to just go away now that she has gotten all this warped attention? She's still milking it for all it's worth. She's been turned down by dozens of competent law firms so this carnival attorney is a joke, if she stays with her.

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

Can someone please direct Mr. Wells to the posts on this thread that refer to Tara Reade prior to my posts? He seems a bit confused.

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

You know what I'am talking about..........;)

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

I raced my Jr Stocker in the ‘60s & 70s. Ran off records, no dialing, tenth under allowed. .011 under = break out. Never “dialed MPH”. Never heard of that one.

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

I think we discussed this a while back...
Who was last person to win a Nat. with a 14 second vehicle?
Mike Smith?
Tom Ward?
Larry Hill?

Re: 13's, 14's vs. 9's , 10's
 

How many people won stock with a 15 + second vehicle? I know Mark and Billy. National events. Can people name who?