First VS Worst red light
 

I'm just curious as to everybodies opinion on the current rule vs the other option(worst red light). I personally would like to see the rule changed to the worst. But as a fairly new second generation racer, i am curious as to the opinions of the more seasoned racers as well as the new racers. Pros and cons both...

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

Do a search on past postings...

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...s2WIQ&usqp=CAU

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

Not this nonsense again.Don't redlight and you won't have this problem.

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

Go RED you're DEAD.

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

At least one of the posts that they are reffering to is one that I started that garnered just under 250 posts. What I MEANT when I started it was that here is a prime Example for "True Start". An Example. It was a race between Jody Lang & Bob Gullet.
(W) Bob Gullett F/S 10.85 -0.008 10.956 0.106
(L) Jody Lang M/SA 12.11 -0.007(R)12.984 0.874
It set off a firestorm of very strong opinions on the subject both ways. Bob won this one but with true start, Jody would have won it.

PERSONALLY I'm in favor of true start. Im just 1, one, I, uno vote. True start has been adopted in some places. I think the Fling uses it.

In my own racing , I train to react. I have a practice tree. If you say don't red light, its something you have to think about.

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

I vote for true start.

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

Slow cars want it fast cars don’t. Play by current rules. If it ever changes then we will have to just roll with it

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

Worst. I vote for True Start too.

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

No dog in the hunt. I don't have a vote. So, there is no reason for anybody to badmouth me for my comment, please.

"Slow cars want it fast cars don’t..."

To me, this statement sums it up nicely.

A change would give the quick cars less advantage. Nobody wants LESS advantage.

Same with heads-up runs. doing away with heads-up would also give the quick cars less advantage.

So, I can't blame the quick guys for not wanting any changes.

I also can't blame the slow cars for wanting the changes. In both cases, the change would benefit the slow cars.

I can see why the quick guys sometime get rather nasty, when either of these changes are discussed. In most cases, the quick guys have spent LOTS of money in order to have a quick car. They don't want more competition from the low budget guys.

So, I am always interested in the back & forth discussions of these 2 possible changes. Good entertainment, unless the F-bombs start flying.

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

Yes to True Start. I run slow in Stock and race a 10'o car in foot brake and Pro category. Usually I'm the faster car. I should be held accountable for being a worse driver and committing a violation. Pretty simple.

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

I am for True Start. But how about if you both red light, your both out. Seams fair to me.

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

No to True Start. If you want it, go bracket race.

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

Its usually the quicker cars that oppose True Start, takes away an advantage they enjoy. I know from experience as I used to have one of the quickest cars in my bracket class at the local track. (9.60's foot brake in Sportsman, no-electronics class)

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

That's what we do during eliminations. If there is a heads up like we all enjoy about class racing, guess what, worst red light is the loser. So we kind of already have the rule. If you dont like the worst light rule, then in heads up just make it furthest under index wins. That way worst red light rule is removed like the rest of the rounds.

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

True start is a liberal way of running a race slow cars have an advantage of having a clean tree leave the rules alone siow cars almost never spin the tires, give fast cars traction control and the ability to block the vision of the other lane then you can have it

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

Cant help you on traction, but blinders is fine with me.

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

If there is a logical argument against TruSTART, I’d love to hear it. It’s the way it should be and would have always been done if technology allowed it.

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

AMEN....it’s not the first breakout,.....but the worst breakout....l

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

I would bet it will change eventually. More and more tracks will use it for S/SS combo races. Most will then think..hey no big deal.

As most of the old timers retire or worse, there won't be as much opposition either.

When first proposed , most of the fast Stockers were in the low 10's .Today, a way different story. A few of the formerly fastest Stocker guys will probably come around too.

There are advantages to both ends of the spectrum, so I don't see that as a good argument "against'.

I've said before, I don't care , one way or the other. I just try to look at the big picture.

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

I just got home from the Epping Sports Nationals. I watched several higher HP cars blow the tires away from poor starting line prep. I have raced both fast and slow stockers. I'm all for true start. But if the faster car spins the tires because lack of starting line prep you get a rerun. If you think there is such a big advantage with a faster car than build one. BP

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

What if just the slower car spins due to bad track prep, rerun as well?

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

well boys and girls ,,you can flame me if want but i run bias ply slicks and had the choice of getting radials for this race ,, yep radials are faster on a good prepped track ,, in heads up you need to have them to take the best advantage you can but ,,however i ran both lanes this weekend and my car went down with no issues to with others who didn't , yeah i have been on the bad side of track prep with radials ,nhra does there best with the tools at hand ,,if your car is set on kill all of the time chances are you wont go rounds ,,
just my 2 cents ,, been to the movie
gmonde

fuel cars don't get reruns ,, barry dont beat me up or throw burgers at me ,, just my take !

my opinion whos go's red first is out

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

If you look at it logically, only the tree matters here. Keep out any other fast car vs slow car advantages/disadvantages. I have been running S/SS for only 15 yrs, but been around it for over 40, and have never ran into ANYONE who thinks there is an advantage to the slow end of a staggered tree. The rule is fine as-is, as it can level out the non-clean tree racer in rare instances. This Tru-start in MY opinion is one baby step towards 'everyone gets a trophy'

The only situation Tru start makes sense to me is a delay box class with crosstalk on, but that is another conversation.

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

Seems to be a more civil response this time around.

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

Non clean tree doesn't hold water with me. At brackets races I pretty much spot all cars and have not seen the case in not having a clean tree. The focus is on the tree, then keep car straight as possible , then after in drive I start looking for opponent . If your watching slow car leave and interfere with your focus I can only suggest more bracket races, team races,s/ss combos and at the big div and nats you can hopefully go more rounds.

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

You want rules that are rational,make sense and are not arbitrary.

First is worse is arbitrary. Arbitrary is authoritarian, authoritarian is leftist.

The argument because the fast car doesn't have a clean tree, it should given the advantage of first is worse, isn't a rational argument. It's an opinion.

Ya definitely don't want subjective (opinion) rules.

Objectivity through rational thought is western and masculine concept liberals challenge on a daily basis across this country, and we're losing enough ground as it is.

You want rules that are objective , make sense and are not arbitrary..

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

Still wondering why first is worse in a heads up. This is a performance class and fastest car in heads up should be the winner first redlight should not be relevant by some of your way of thinking

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

There is a concentration advantage to be gained for the faster car under TruSTART as well. Without it, I know I'd have a tendency to sneak a peek to the other side to see if my opponent happened to go red. With TruSTART, the slower car's bulb always shows green so there's nothing to see over there. It helps me keep my mind where it should be.

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

Take a rational approach in looking at it. When does a drag race start? Answer, when two cars start the clocks.

It's arbitrary to declare one contestant loser, before the race even starts.

It takes two to have a drag race.

If you make a single it's not a drag race, it's a pass or a lap..

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

If it came to a vote I would pick the Tru start. Technology has changed over the years and this could be one of the improvements. I don't remember if it would have ever helped me. I doubt it would com in to play that often.

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

Class racing is different than bracket racing in that it is a performance class. Some guy in a fast H/SA could theoretically be giving a handicap to a slow A/SA.If he does and the A/SA redlights,that is too bad.

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

Last time this topic was hot we took a vote and I think it was 50 50

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

Here we go again!
If this now would change I wouldn’t be surprised there will be people in the future that think a close red light isn’t fair either and would like the one with the best package closest to .0000 from both directions should be the winner :D
I do think there are reasons that it should be some advantage to build a faster Car, If that actually is the case when you sum all things together, well thats my view anyway!

IMHO I think we need to stop asking for changes of any kind for the Eliminator and the Cars.
If NHRA thinks it’s time, fine but no changes should not be driven by a group of Racers

Also if we ever get any spectators to watch us I think it’s confusing enough for them with dial ins, break outs without trowing in Red Lights that comes on up to 5-6 seconds after someone left the starting line.
I also wonder if anyone have statistics about faster or slower Cars actually have more Redlights, I feel like the faster Car have the same amount of reds as slower cars even with todays system though it dont get the chance to go red if the other lane got it first, maybe I'm wrong.. :rolleyes:

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

in a FREE country you are allowed to build whatever you like .... rules been there since day one ???

im a candidate for the most affected guy in nhra history...
but i made my choice 40 years ago

captain

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

4 bracket races Ive raced in with Truestart I remember 2 races that Truestart reversed the outcome.

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

Sure Lane why not. I just don't really want to see another rule change. We've had enough of them.

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

So you are for true start and you want heads ups to be that the faster car wins no matter what the light is? Well that will ruin heads up racing if thats the case. You have never watched a heads up race with a David and Goliath story of a holeshot win with the slower car getting the win because the faster car may have been over cautious? People complain that class racing is hard enough to follow already. It would be stupid to remove the redlight in a heads up race. Every other heads up race from Top Fuel to Street outlaws as fake as it is penalizes someone for leaving early in a heads up race.

I say no to true start in any capacity of class racing.

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

He's not saying change the rule. He's saying the rule is already in affect, worst red light is loser heads up.

He's right, the worst red light rule is already in affect.

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

Okay, number one the redlight is not how to start the race (I know for I do it all the time). I have no problem with the first redlight is the loser. I have fast and slow cars.

I am not the guy that moves next to a dragstrip and complains about the noise either. In other words, when I read the rulebook and accepted this as the venue that I would be competing in, I don’t expect the rules to be changed to meet my personal needs. I’m glad to get away from flag starters and the 5 bulb tree. I do like the reaction timers, just so I can tell how good or bad I was. I think we are good with the way it is.

I don’t have anything good to say about the truestart system. I’m pleased someone created it, for their benefit. I feel that if NHRA wanted it they would have had it created.

I personally don’t feel your truestart pain.

Ernie Neal
SS 354

Re: First VS Worst red light
 

In a non-handicapped race, first and worst are the same. We have to pick one or the other.

If your philosophy is that race cars should go fast and advantages should go to the faster car, then I see why you'd prefer first red loses. If your philosophy is that it's a bracket race and the goal is precision, then I see why you'd prefer worst red loses.

Since Stock, SS, and Comp for that matter are performance based classes, I have a hard time seeing it changing... but wouldn't complain if it does. I do think it's hard to justify why someone who is -.001 deserves to lose more than someone who is -.200 red in the same run, but those are the rules and "that's how we've always done it"