Tire Kickers
 

I have been wanting to get a pulse of what others think of this subject, people who want you to give them something for nothing. I have an add in the classified section and on Racing Junk. I have a received a couple calls with varying questions; does it have a title, is it street legal, is it a rust bucket, can you send pics etc. One of the things I don't understand is what is the deal with titles and race cars? The last time I checked MPR, Qauy, F.J. Smith, Bickel, and Haas etc. didn't give out titles, if they do someone please enlighten me. When I bought my car I got a bill of sale, I didn't intend on driving it on the street and if I did I could use that bill of sale to get a title. Street legal; how many real race car buyers are looking in the classifieds of pages like Racing Junk, ND, DR, or here on Class Racer for a street car? not many that I have seen. I don't know many cars that have 5.67 gears and 14x32 slicks that are street legal but there could be. One gentlemen called and asked a bunch of questions, asked me to complare my car to Joe's and I wouldn't do it. I don't know Joe, I only know my car. Then last but not least car value; I don't own an MPR, PMR, Quay, F.J. Smith, or Wisecarver built car but it is a well built peice and I think I have it priced right for what it is. It amazes me how people want you to give you stuff away; I don't know where you can find a car that is NHRA certifed and is almost ready to run with minor changes for the price I have my vehicle listed at. Yet I have had people tell me it's more work they they want to do, if adding carpet and a seat to vehicle to make it legal to race is too much work I don't know what to tell a person.
I'm going to get off my soap box, I am sure no one cares but I needed to vent so I figured I let it out here. I am sure some folks have been through the same stuff.

Smitty

Re: Tire Kickers
 

Smitty,
I cannot speak for every one here but in most cases the title is peace of mind. Having the title in your hands assures the buyer of a couple things, it is indead your car to sell, no one later is going to show up with title in hand and claim it to be theirs. I fthe law was to pull you over and show proof of ownership you can, if not it could be confiscated (I think this has happened before). As for all the other stuff people try to get the best possible deal they can, it's human nature.

Re: Tire Kickers
 

Jim Cimaroli told a tire kicker one time: "It's for sale, not on sale"...although I think the words were in capital letters!

Re: Tire Kickers
 

I bought one car without a title one time........NEVER AGAIN !!! It was a COSTLY situation to get out of !!!
I'd at least have a Law Officer come examine the vehicle and go over it. If the seller gets shaky I'd walk away !!!

Re: Tire Kickers
 

I had a race car rolling shell stolen from me once. It was an ex-Pro Stock '68 Barracuda notchback. I sold the car, he said he'd be over the next day with his trailer and then took 4+ weeks to come and get it from the apartment complex parking lot that I lived at. Of course he finally shows up, knocks on my door and want's to know where the car is. I told him "same place it was when you paid for it". Of course it wasn't, I looked like a thief and I felt like crap. But not enough to give him his money back.
So a year or two later my future wife and I and another couple were driving around Phoenix looking at the Christmas lights. I cut through a neighborhood and what do I see but the old 'Cuda sitting in a driveway! I called the guy I sold it at 1:30 in the morning to let him know what I found. He arrived the next morning with the Sheriff and his title and confiscated the car. Apparently it had bounced around a few owners since being stolen.
Now the new 5.38 Dana 60 was missing but there were now a lot of 440 parts in the trunk including a tunnel-ram, headers, solid roller valve-train, etc. The guy tried to tell the Sheriff that was never part of the car. "Too bad" said the Sheriff!
The rightful owner elected not to file charges and took his stuff home. I was exhonerated. Everybody was happy except a few thieves and their wortless bill of sale(s).

Now on your other problems, my friend Mark has his '70 Challenger D/S for sale also. It's on this site and Racing Junk also. Now Mark we wheels and deals in muscle cars all the time. He even has his own auction company. I can tell you this, he's more frustrated in trying to sell this stocker (his grandma is the original owner) than any 10 musclecars combined! And he does have title.
He's been flooded with questions starting with "what's the original engine" (no, I'm not an idiot and am not giving away an original HEMI Challenger with a 4-speed for $27,500, it's a factory 318 car w/ slap-stick auto), "What is the original color" (it was Burnt Orange Metallic, now it's Ford Bright Tangerine Mettalic), "What's the original interior color" (Burnt Orange, now black). Then they want to pick his brain for an hour and eventually it seems to come out that they've always fantasized about having a stocker & they seem to have one in the barn and "wouldn't it be cool if I built one of dem?"
One guy was "buying his plane ticket" to come buy the car. Then his "auto body man" called him and told him how rusty the car is and he cancelled the flight. Well, I guess you've never seen factory Burnt Orange Metallic paint still on the bottom of a car and when you see it in pictures you automatically assume it's all rusted up. Mark offered to pay for his flight if he could find rust an the car but that wan't good enough. The car has never been out of Arizona except to race.
So for those tire kickers, go price a mint rust-free, never even a parking lot ding Challenger body and then put a 440 stocker engine together with a 4-speed Jerico. Put a beautiful paint job on it. How quickly can you eat up $27,500? If you can do it cheaper, go do it. If not, give him a call. Like you said "For Sale", "Not on Sale"!
Yep Terrance, we feel your pain!

Re: Tire Kickers
 

Smitty, et al

I know what you're talking about. I had my superstock operation up for sale for a period of time before it was sold. I had every swinging %$#@ calling and asking questions about the car; similar to those which have already been mentioned above. The ad was specifically detailed about the car, engine, drivetrain and chassis and the typical idiots would call and ask if it was "a tube chassis car" and "I'll give you $10k for it" when they had never come to see the car. I don't call them so much as tire kickers as I do strokers. Even had one from overseas who verbally committed to buying the car and for the next two weeks I facilitated and documented the necessary steps to ship it to that specific country (and it wasn't an African country either). Some of the other Class Racers on this site had dealt with him too. The first person who came to see the car bought it.

Same thing goes with motors, trans and other parts. When you have quality top of the line pieces and equipment for specific stock and/or superstock classes, with few exceptions, the sellers are taking it in the shorts when they sell their pieces.

Preachin to the choir...

Re: Tire Kickers
 

That is why I have to rent about 6000 s.f of inside storage and 5 acres for the rest of my junk, I can't deal with the strokes to try to sell something......I have things I don't want or need, but won't give it away to azzholes either.

I'll burn stuff and throw it in a dumpster in front of a "buyer" before I'll be insulted, maybe that is just me, but I got sick of that stuff in a hurry from being in business for many years.

I refuse to place an ad in any local papers like the Trader, you get every idiot with no money, no life, and no prospects wanting to kick the tires and see all your stuff.

I only advertise and deal over the net from established message board classifieds, and have had no troubles. I have used Racingjunk, back before it got big.

I hate selling stuff.......just because of the strokes.

Re: Tire Kickers
 

One of the reasons people ask if it has a title is because a banker will loan money on something with a title. I don't know many who will loan money on a "race car."

my opinion..

Re: Tire Kickers
 

tire kicking is all part of looking for a good deal or the rite deal,,,I traffic and trade in race cars as a hobby,,,the best way to sell something is NOT to MIS represent it,,,,Ive run into ads that list a car runs 1.00 under and thanks the drag race central and some investigative work,,,,you will find the car has never been 1.00 under or even .50 under at that,,,,,,,,,,,,,, or you find that the last time the car was run was 2005 ,,even though it supposedly run every weekend,,,,,,,Dean rebeiro gave me some good advice,,,never buy a racecar on the starting line,,,alway sbuy it at the ET shack,,,,,(so to speak),,,,

on the title issue,,,,,having a title is just good business

Re: Tire Kickers
 

Thanks guys for all your opinions on this subject, It just gets your blood boiling when some questions come up that are stupid in my opinion. I can understand somewhat about the title thing but I also did some research concerning bills of sale; if I wanted a title I could have got one from the NC DMV but I knew the previous owner and they knew the original owners. I checked the VIN and it is clean, hell I even ran the numbers I found own the axles in the car and they come back to the original builder of the car dating back to 1982! I feel comfortable I have a legit peice. I told a friend today that I would sleep in that SOB before I undersold it. When I bought it I saw the flaws it had but I knew for what I got and what I paid I couldn't build it that cheap. Do you think if I offered it up for $1000 or best offer those same guys who are concerned about it not having a title would not think twice about buying it?

Re: Tire Kickers
 

I know what you mean on the boiling issue too,,,Ive got a stacker that Ive been half hearted wanting to sell,,,,got a killer deal on it,,,did a little work to it and trying to make a few,,,,,MADE THE MISTAKE of offering to take smaller trailer in on it to help someone get into a larger trailer without having to move theirs first,,,,,,,had mine priced at 22k to absorb some of the over inflated trades and still price it too cheap to take trades,,,,,but my fault for not pricing it at 30k and giving 15k for a 24 ft trade in


and on racing junk,,I aways remind lookers I want NO BIKES in on trade,,,,seems like everyone has a bike they want to trade on something

Re: Tire Kickers
 

here is a couple of things that might save some phone calls
when selling a car say what size driver the car will fit. i see all sorts of ads that state everything abought a car but they dont tell you what size person the car was built for
and when selling a stacker give the lift heights as in will it fit 2 full size cars or 1 car and a dragster
here agin i see ads that the person tells you how many drawers the tool box has but doesnt tell you what size cars it will haul these are just a couple points that might just save you them tire kicker calls

Re: Tire Kickers
 

at a swap meet selling you have a part for sale say for 100 dollars and a stroke walks up and offers 40 bucks i reply by saying 120... the look and confusion they go thru is pricelss when they assume you will meet them somewhere between the offer they made and your asking price ...big suprise when you start going the other direction with the price.
warning ....sometimes this will make a stroke mad enough you might want to have a knuckle sandwich ready for them to choke on

Re: Tire Kickers
 

I am presently searching for a track only car. Myself and friends search racing junk daily. There are many people who use such sites to find cars and parts. The post regarding driver height is a good one, travelled a fair ways to sit in a Vega that was far too small for me. I am 6'2" tall and the seller kind of "fudged" his height,in an attempt to sell his car quickly. When I sold my last drag car, March of this year, the buyer requested a title which I was able to provide. I too had a number of inquiries as to whether or not it could be put back on the street. Unfotunately we must realize that while we love racing there is certainly a much bigger market for "pro street" or dual purpose cars. Just my.02 cents a they say. Have a good one.

Re: Tire Kickers
 

selling versus buying:
I have had excellent luck SELLING stuff because I generally deal with friends or real racers.I have actually developed friendships from the sale of my last few cars. Most guys are amazed the cars I sell DO what I claim they do and I give the answers they need to keep them running.
I sold my first race car as a trade and was supposed to get money. NO MONEY. Lots of years went by and I usually didnt buy much from racers or .......Then I had and the operative word is HAD a friend sell me some cars and parts. That was January. No parts no titles no return of money.Eleven months later he is waiting for the Judge to decide when he starts his 5 years prison. Another judge is deciding on WHEN I get ALL his belongings and house etc. Justice will be nice. All the other racers he has screwed along the way are waiting to enjoy justice too.
Next time you are bugged by tire kickers think about how you try for the best deal when buying a new truck or trailer or......they usually have little idea of the value of our parts.
Dick

Re: Tire Kickers
 

this hobby has always been like this. ive found street rodders are the kind of guys that brag about how cheap they built it for. and street car guys too. most of them do not want a good deal they really want to rob you...deal with racers.

Re: Tire Kickers
 

I'm afraid there are racers who will take advantage of people, too. There are a couple that owe me money for decals. I hate it, but I'm going to have to start getting money up front from people. The vast majority of my customers have been great, but a scant few are going to ruin it for everyone.

Re: Tire Kickers
 

Lets try looking at this in another way. A portion of the buying public that scan racing classifieds are not looking for racecars. They are looking for cars that are not so far gone that they can be returned to marketable musclecars.

While we love racecars for what they are, there is a larger demand for restored musclecars. That is the primary reason buyers are interested in a racecar having a title. That also is the reason for so many questions concerning the possible streetable condition of a racecar. Those buyers are not interested in racing parts that make the car go fast. They would probably let you keep the racing parts. They just want the stuff that will allow the car to be returned back to a marketable musclecar. In todays market a restored musclecar of the right type is worth much more than a record holding racecar.


(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinion.)