Soft Lock Air Gap Problem???
 

I have a brand new .330 disc soft lock in my 88 mustang stocker, and I can't get enough air gap.

No matter what I do, I only get about .035. I have an adj. cable, pedal stop, firewall adjuster, and have played with the pivot fork, and the McLeod adjustable throw out bearing spacers.

I have had the assembly in and out of the car at least 50 times trying different adjustments with the same .035 gap. Any suggestions?

McLeod Tech told me the only thing it could be is that I had the disc in backwards, but I just tore it back apart to verify it, and the clutch hub is towards the trans. This is my first solid hub disc... there is only a slight difference in either side of the disc. Any ideas here?

Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem???
 

Was the pressure plate set up for a .280 thick disc? If so, you will need to put .050 of shims between the flywheel and pressure plate.

Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem???
 

I have Soft Loks in both my Ford drag cars, and both units were shipped with .280" thick discs, as were any replacement discs.Did you buy the clutch as a complete assembly? You may have been shipped the wrong disc. Also, I assume that you are using McLeods necked down clutch fork and an adjustable ball pivot, correct? Even though the 5.0 Mustang uses a fairly deep bellhousing, the packaging is very tight, due to the fork running to the passenger side pivot ball, plus the Soft Loks "Long" style pressure plate is considerably taller than the stock diagphram clutch. On my Mustang it was a juggling act to get the adjustable pivot in far enough without hitting the pressure plate. I am also using the "special" wide face throw out bearing. One other thing to watch when you get this all sorted out, is that when the disc gets thinner from wear, you may find that the fork will bottom out against the scattershields window, which will cause the clutch to slip, regardless of how much pressure you give it. I have had this happen with both the Lakewood as well as my curent McLeod scattershield.

Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem???
 

The clutch was brand new from McLeod and the flywheel was also through them. It is a 11" clutch assembly. The disc is a .330

I am running a Doug Nash 5 speed, and am using a Lakewood 15201 bellhousing. The trans input shaft is shorter that what most SBF guys are running, and this requires the use of the 15201 vs. the more commonly used 15202 bellhousing. I have fought, and solved all the clearance issues associated with the fork geometry as far as clearancing to avoid the fork contacting the trans, pressure plate, and bellhousing window during clutch actuation. I am also forced to space my starter out the thickness of 5 ARP washers in order for it to engage properly. I haven't had any isues with the starter at all running these washers to space the starter forward the required amount.

I honestly think that I am to the point of buying a new bellhousing (15202) and installing a longer input shaft in the trans. This combination has been a disaster trying to figure out.

Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem???
 

First of all Shawn, I feel your pain. The process of getting these things right can really make you question your sanity.

I've used the same bellhousing through all of my different transmissions...toploader, Jerico and now G-Force. The last time I put everything together, I ran into the same problem you are having and had to use two shims on the throwout bearing, which solved the issue. I'm using the McLeod adj. throwout bearing.

Hope this helps...and don't consider just playing golf like everyone else!

-Earle

Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem???
 

I agree, sounds like the cover is for a .280 thick Disc. I have a. 330 in my stocker but had to add .050 AN washers under the cover bolts to get the set up right. I sure would give it a try brfore I bought any thing else.

Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem???
 

I too have the McLeod adjustable throwout bearing. I have 3 spacers in it now, with a very thin stock fork. I tried the Lakewood fork, but the thickness of it caused the fork to contact the bearing retainer bolt on the trans. I ground a large section out of the fork as a pocket for the bolt to clear, but I could never really get it to work without hitting something during pedal travel. Like I said, I have tried everything as far as adjustments go... with the same .035 gap as a result.

The only plus to this deal is that I can now remove my trans, bell, shifter, passenger header, starter, and clutch in a little over an hour max!

I shouldn't be this good at this... I need seat time, not more time under the car.

As far as spacers... where are you guys talking about installing them exactly? I am not understanding this!

Earl, I am not into golf... but sometimes I wish I had a golf club, and this clutch assy. in front of me!

Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem???
 

Concerning a couple of your other problems, are you sure the flywheel uses an 11" disc? My 5.0 Stocker`s Soft Lok is only 10", even my 428FE bracket car has a 10 1/2" disc. As for spacing out the starter, i`m assuming that you are using the larger 164 tooth flywheel which has the starter ring gear at the front of the flywheel, rather than flywheel that has the ring gear farter back. I ran into the same thing while testing different flywheels in my Mustang. Ford does have an OE starter that will work without spacing the starter out. I believe that the starter is from a mid-late 80`s Ford truck with a 300 ci 6 cylinder and a manual transmission. The proper starter would work better than one that is spaced out with washers, as the washers prevent the starters locating ring from seating into the block plate. As to the relaease fork, my McLeod fork came modified for use with the Long style clutch; it has a section of flat plate which replaces the ridged section of fork, where the fork goes behind the pressure plate. This provides enough clearance for the fork to travel foreward, disengageing the clutch, without the fork contacting the top of the pressure plate. I wish I could get my scattershield and clutch out of my Mustang period!! Between the headers and narrow trans tunnel, I just don`t have enough room to Re&Re it with the engine in the car. I guess next time I have the engine & trans out, I`ll be firing up the sledge hammer!

Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem???
 

My flywheel is a 164 tooth.

The Lakewood fork is basically the same deisgn as the McLeod long style fork, but is just a much thicker unit, and the cable end is angled toward the front of the car slightly.

The clutch is an 11" piece that McLeod set me up with. The reason it is an 11" is because when I got the car, that was the flywheel the car had in it. The car was also supposed to have a soft lock unit, but didn't. You don't always get what you paid for you could say. The more, and more I fuss with this set up, the more it makes me want to scrap it, and start fresh with an entire new clutch / trans.

I really would like to figure out first is why I can't get the air gap I need???? Even with all the parts I have, it should still work, but doesn't even come close.

Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem???
 

Shawn,
The spacers the guys are talking about go on the six studs that the pressure plate bolts to the flywheel with. If you were set up for a .280 disc before and now have a .330 disc your air gap is probably .050 less than before. Basically your pressure plate can only open up the air gap a certain amount and if you use a thicker disc that certain amount is now less. Measure your old disc and figure out how much thicker the new one is. The difference in the disc should be how much shims you need. Hope this helps.

Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem???
 

The soft lock clutch was brand new from McLeod along with the .330 disc, and the flywheel I had in the car was sent in to them to have the heat sheild replaced. The entire assembly came from McLeod in a box as a matched set-up. I will measure the disc, but with this thinking, McLeod would have had to have set it up for a .280 disc, and then set me the unit labled as a .330.

This could very well be, but how would I personally be able to check this?

The clutch that was in the car was sent to McLeod by me after I got the car. It was some old out dated long style clutch, but had no adjustment at all even though I was told I was getting a true soft lock unit in the deal. I sent them the clutch & flywheel, and after we figured everything out, we told them to set me up with a new soft lock, and it returned along with my old flywheel with a new heat shield. The entire unit that I have in the car now was in McLeods hands, and any error on disc thickness would be on them. The clutch hasn't worked since I received it. No air gap, and creeping with RPM at launch badly! The car would shift, but would start to creep at 4800RPM or so.

Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem???
 

What gap are you trying to achieve? I am no expert, but have run the Soft-Lok for two year. At times I ran as small as .040 gap with no creep. I currently run .060 gap. I was told the larger gap will cause the initial hit to be harder. making it hard to find the sweet spot in the setup. I'm curious what gap other people use?

Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem???
 

McLeod says, .070 to .085. Many people I have talked to run them at .050. Some people don't even check air gap, and use the RPM to determine it based on if the car creeps or not. My car creeps at around 4800RPM, and I need to try to get this thing to hold in the mid 6K range.

Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem???
 

I had a "custom" built flywheel built for me by McLeod. Always had problems getting the clutch fork geometry, air-gap, etc. correct. I got it to work but it always seemed there were compromises. Sometime later I started using Rob Youngblood's Advanced Clutches. I had his new 10" unit which included the the Advanced flywheel. When I bolted it all up, everything was different. It was after discussion with Rob & comparing some other flywheels that we determined the McLeod Flywheel was built wrong and it was to far offsett from the crank (towards the trans). THe Advanced flywheel was built correctly. Once installed and all adjustments were made I didn't have those McLeod problems again.
I also have heard from more than one source that McLeod has sent out the incorrect thickness disk. Sure you can shim it out but after spending so much money, why should you have the ***-ache of R&R'ing the bell until YOU get it right? Another thing I know, Rob rejects a good 90% of clutch disks he receives due to rockwell hardness and other problems. Does McLeod? I know it's hard to scrap a unit once you own it but with all these problems (and I'll bet the problem goes back to poor quality control at McLeod), I'd send it to Advanced for his upgrade or buy an entirely new Advanced unit. At least when you call Rob, he picks up the phone...
Good luck...

Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem???
 

Jeff,

I couldn't agree with you more. Rob at Advanced is the man when it comes to customer service. I have had some dealings with him, and am talking to him now about moving to his clutch. I bought a bellhousing from him, that ended up being to deep for my current application. He was up front, and always there when we called on him. He refunded my money for the bellhousing, and I ended up buying a new one from Lakewood, but only because I was at a race, and needed it that same day. In the future... I will have an Advanced clutch in my car.

As for now, I just need to get the car to make a full pass, and start working out the bugs without throwing any more money at it. I have been on the phone with McLeod most of the morning, and as it looks, they set it up wrong from the start. Fred Taylor had me measure from the inside of the PP cover to the finger, and said if properly set up it should read .290. When I measured mine, it is at .240. There is the .050 that I can't seem to fine. I am waiting to hear back from him to confirm this, and if so, the unit will be returned to McLeod to be set up correctly. I am not about to settle for just adding shims to my clutch, like Jeff said, for the money, it should be set up right the first time!

I have fought this car and clutch problems since May of this year, and have made numerous calls to McLeod. In and out with the trans, bell, and clutch at least 50 times adjusting everything possible, and a simple mistake on their part has cost me hundreds of dollars in fuel, entry fees, and my own time.

Hopefully, everything will work out with a fix by McLeod, and I can get my race car out to make a full pass, and start sorting things out. Basically 2007 was a wash for me...

More to come....

Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem???
 

McLeod called back, and said that the .240 would be to my advantage??? They also said that it should be set to .290, so I can't imajine why they would send me something set incorrectly.

I am sending the clutch back to them, to check out, and set correctly. They said they were going to set it up, and apply .035 air gap, and try to figure out the bearing measurment from that to help with the geometry. Hopefully, they can remedy this, and I can get a full pass in the car before the end of the season, and before my next trip to the middle east at the end of Dec.

Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem???
 

Man, I hope they get it right for you. The heat shield they added needs to be checked as well. Some are thicker than others. I hate the thought of a soldier being in Iraq thinking about his race car that didn't even make a pass all year! Hopefully you'll get that great wheels up launch before you ship out. That'll be a little more stimulating at least!
Good luck!

Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem???
 

I sent the clutch back to McLeod, and they called me today. They said that my clutch was in perfect working order? When I questioned them about my clutch measuring .240 between the fingers and the cover, vs. them telling me that it should read .290, they wouldn't answer me, and just kept saying, I don't know... but your clutch is good? I was at work, and couldn't really talk to them, but I will be calling back to get some more answers, and measurments.

While on the phone, he asked me if my car was cable operated, or not. It is. He then gave me an extention number of the cable operated expert there at McLeod. I will be calling to talk to him tomorow also. After all the calls I have mane to McLeod Tech. why was I never pointed in the " cable operated expert's" direction?

All good questions...

One thing that someone questioned me about today while discussing this, was if my bellhousing block plate could a different thickness from what was in the car before.

I initially had an old McLeod bellhousing in the car, and we made our first passes using this old beat up bell housing. The trans broke as a result of the bellhousing not being properly aligned due to the bore hole being so badly chewed up that you couldn't get an accurate measurment at all. After the trans was fixed, we installed a Lakewood 51201, and have been having air gap issues ever since. Could the block plate thickness have anything to do with my air gap issue?

The Lakewood plate that I have measures .130 thick. I have no idea what the McLeod plate was, but I will be sure to ask McLeod tomorrow about this. Anyone have any thoughts on if this could cause an issue with air gap?

Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem???
 

Shawn,

I also, was unable to get the right amount of air gap with a .330 disc. Problem is the bell is just not deep enough and you can't get the cable to provide enough throw for proper release wihtout problems. I MUST run a max of a .280 disc for everything to fit, along with a McLeod adjustable throwout bearing. I run about .080-090-inch air gap and this still gives me enough gap between the fingers and the bearing when the clutch pedal is relaxed.

Evan

Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem???
 

Evan,

What bellhousing are you running, and also who's cable? I haven't had much luck with finding an adjustable cable long enough to work. I have a McLeod quadrant, and firewall adjuster on the car now. I don't even use the firewall adjuster, so I may nust remove it to give me a little more at the other end. Any help here would be appreciated.

By the way, I can't wait to see the New SS/A Shelby!!!

Thanks

Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem???
 

I believe the cable and the quadrant are from Steeda and the bellhousing is the 203, I think. It's the deepest one they make for the SBF.

Evan