New NHRA Technical Inspection Addendum
 

NHRA released an addendum to the rule book applicable to tech inspections.

http://www.nhra.net/2021/nhraracer/r...n_Rulebook.pdf

Although not detailed and/or specific, one noteworthy statement is that under the clauses of the new addendum, they have the authority to look at your electronic data in and outside your car. My belief is that NHRA can request that you provide them your Racepak or similar recording system data and in the case of EFI, your software/tune programs.

"By participating in the event, the participant understands and agrees that NHRA and
event officials at any NHRA Member Track may at any time inspect, seal for inspection,
tear down, and/or conduct testing by any means or method they deem appropriate on a
vehicle or any part thereof, including PPE and components that are not affixed to or
have been removed from the vehicle and computer or electronic devices and data,
including without limitation data preserved away or apart from the vehicle."

Re: New Technical Inspection Addendum
 

Wonder what they are looking for...
Sounds like something specific although not alluded to?...
Hmmm...

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There was an issue in Pro Mod last season with Rick Hord denying NHRA access to his tune up.

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How many times do they have to repeat them selves page after page to get there point a cross, once should be enough unless your getting punished !!!!!!!!!, BAD BOY BAD BOY. I guess if we do it right the first time no issues for them to complain about.

Re: New NHRA Technical Inspection Addendum
 

what a joke.........lol !

Re: New Technical Inspection Addendum
 

I have had "issues" with many NHRA Tech Officials over the years BECAUSE I always ask too many questions. The rules have always been written in a way as to be intentionally vague. I was actually told by one former NHRA Tech "we don't want you asking for permission, we want you begging for forgiveness".
Now IMHO, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that they are looking for down-track-timers and what can be used as a down-track-timer. For an example, what's a data-logger (specifically the driveshaft sensor) doing while it's going down the track hooked to the ignition box through the grid. This all MIGHT have something to do with the new staging rules also.

Oh, and let's not forget traction-control.

Re: New Technical Inspection Addendum
 

I have had "issues" with many NHRA Tech Officials over the years BECAUSE I always ask too many questions. The rules have always been written in a way as to be intentionally vague. I was actually told by one former NHRA Tech "we don't want you asking for permission, we want you begging for forgiveness".

That explains a lot...
So that's why the dear in the headlights look when I asked questions...
Got it...;)

This may be more fun than I thought...:cool:

Re: New Technical Inspection Addendum
 

Does this new tech mean I have to not use my garage door opener in my pocket? Just asking for a friend

Re: New Technical Inspection Addendum
 

Drive shaft acceleration profiles of previous runs Elapsed Time from a RacPak can be downloaded to devices that work with the MSD Grid to make timing adjustments down track to run the same drive shaft profile and ET over and over. Or a new drive shaft acceleration profile can be downloaded via Bluetooth to run a different ET so its not so obvious what's going on. People have figured out how to embed the circuitry inside the MSD Grid box making it very difficult for tech officials to spot. However, the Personal Computer (PC) in the trailer will have the illegal software installed on it. The new language makes it clear Tech officials can demand access to the PC. NHRA should be applauded for their efforts to protect the integrity of our sport and attempts to maintain a level playing field for the vast majority or racers that don't use such devices.

Anyone that thinks this is a conspiracy theory or the technology isn't readily available for purchase on the internet, hasn't researched the issue.

Re: New Technical Inspection Addendum
 

Very good description of what is going on in the sportsman classes.
I am not saying everyone is using the grid system in this manner however, it is and has been happening.
One more item I believe should be outlawed is any counter, drive shaft, wheel or any other type of counter.
The tech department is just now starting to catch up with the technology that is available.
Just My Take
Rick Cates
Canyon, TX

Re: New Technical Inspection Addendum
 

I carry mine just to look important. I'm one of the very few that can barely use a cell phone. Very old school!

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My wife keeps mine, she knows how it works!

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Maybe some of the COPO's owners can answer this one. I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone but I was told some of the COPO's come equipped with a delay box built into their ignition. Is this true? Barry

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I was involved in a race once that seemed odd to me... That being said there was about a 98% chance I was beat anyway...I was .03 they were .00 ..

they spotted me around .20 1/8 mile @ 330' I'm watching the nose of their car through my quarter window and this car is surging... coming up on my door and falling back to quarter window about 12-18'' THE STRANGE part to me is front of car is NOT bouncing or moving... front stays hiked up... no bounce.. nothing like it is full power...
then a little before 594' he quits surging and pulls up puts his fender out in front of me and backs into me...
YEAH I KNOW I was a sitting duck,but how was that car moving back and forth beside me slowing and speeding up enough to move 12-18'' beside me without the front end raising or lowering any?
maybe front of my cars are just loose... but if I throttle or pump the brakes under power the front of my car is going to raise or lower some....this car NEVER change height AT ALL....

Re: New Technical Inspection Addendum
 

And Bubski's the pariah of Class Racer !! Bring up the dirty dozen or known cheats and your a JO !! This is real and its happening more than ever !! SS/S need to run single wire magnetos regardless of the "data" loss or performance to even out the field !! Sky net has invaded class racing !!

Re: New Technical Inspection Addendum
 

MSD grid system .race park. System
Can I ask why this is ok in stock or super stock?
Can of worms. I don’t own one.
But it does have timing adjustment ...traction control?
and I believe GPS.
Or something to the effect of plotting your run down the track
On a no computer car easy to check.
Late model 2008 or newer car.
Needle in a haystack
Oh yes people are cheating in plain site. But it’s ok
MSD. Motec. Racepak. If you one of these

Re: New Technical Inspection Addendum
 

Does this mean that my wife will have to rename the line on the graph that says NOS "in' and "out" ??

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I have been involved with the COPO program from the very beginning. I own the sixth car built. Holley has been involved in my program since early 2013 when I converted that car to Holley EFI. I have been closely involved in both programs this whole time. All I can say is, if there is a "Factory installed delay box," it has been kept well hidden from me!

Re: New Technical Inspection Addendum
 

James,

Yes, you can map the timing on the MSD Grid to each individual cylinder and more.

As DG explained earlier, there are a lot of different ways that you do so, especially with the high end ECU systems and their interface with the MSD Grid and Racepak data.

I did a brief stint as the Chief Engineer of a shop that built racing engines for Trophy Trucks, ATV's, UTV's and also prepared them to off road races.

We used probably every ECU available in the market depending on the customer choice. All I can say is that with the higher end systems like Motec, Entrom, BS3 and Holley, you can basically have the vehicle do whatever you please and do it in a discrete way that tech will not know what is taking place. It also requires the tuner to know what he is doing and have knowledge of the type of racing too. As an example, with the high end Trophy Trucks, we had barometric pressure sensors that would change the tune of the engine almost instantly for higher elevations and change the tune at lower elevations. Of course, the high end Trophy Trucks cost a lot more than a Pro Stock when they are race ready.

I strongly believe this same issue took place in Pro Stock with the advent of EFI and why the dissimilar performance among teams until others started catching up.

Re: New Technical Inspection Addendum
 

Adger, you being a machinist it would probably be more suitable to change it to "Go" and "No Go"?

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What specifically has piqued the interest of the N.H.R.A. Tech Dept. and at what class level and oh by the way should they not be appreciated for this.
What is the core issue, inquiring minds need to know.
I believe it's SC, SG, SST, SS and STK. What they are doing in Comp is too hard for me to understand.

Re: New Technical Inspection Addendum
 

Bingo!!!!

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I thought that honesty and integrity was an important part of being a great racer. Those virtues were important to me and my friends when we raced. I guess things have changed for a few.

Pretty darn sure that most racers are very proud of their honest racing qualities.

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That was Then = This is Today....

Cheat Cheat and be hard to beat!

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I'm not going to give any specific information.... but I can tell you personal stories of things that make even us go "huh?" when it comes to parts.

I'll just leave it at that.

Matt Hanley
Leverich Racing Top Fuel

Re: New Technical Inspection Addendum
 

I know is...They'll have a hard time trying to look at my onboard diagnostics and aftermarket ignition control

Re: New Technical Inspection Addendum
 

over staging rule

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Assuming NHRA has the will to enforce the rule, and the ability to employ the due diligence - the fall out and subsequent fix seems pretty easy. If you are caught cheating at that level of sophistication to have artificially replicated ETs you get a lifetime ban from NHRA events. Strong deterrent and no repeat offenders. When honor isn’t enough of a reward, a giant hammer can be substituted. Flame away....

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If you don’t think people will cheat, please read the section where people were talking about teaching kids and the pine derby cars
those kids are now grown up and racing

Re: New Technical Inspection Addendum
 

Bear with me on this but one of my favorite books is John Steinbeck’s “East of Eden”. Along with revealing much about human nature as well as the concept of free will, it really explores how people are so much alike but can be wired so differently such that their value systems are unfathomable to most of us. In this context it is inconceivable to me that racers would cheat in such a manner but I’m realistic enough to know it happens. Hopefully NHRA will do due diligence on this but for those who get away with it they should know karma is a bitch. Meanwhile they can go on living their miserable lives where there are no boundaries or values. Off my soapbox...

Re: New Technical Inspection Addendum
 

What happened to the special equipment that NHRA was supposed to use to check the thickness of intake and exhaust ports of cylinder heads at the end of the year before last. I forgot what it was called !:rolleyes:

Re: New Technical Inspection Addendum
 

Maybe NHRA needs to go back to Points, Condensor and the round 12 volt coil mounted on the manifold and a Carburetor. 1960's

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Keith, I read and understand that cheating in racing has been around forever. I guess that I didn't realize that it was so rampant.

Gives a whole new meaning to the song - "I Did It My Way."

Kenney, how about hand written slips with E.T. and M.P.H. only.

Re: New Technical Inspection Addendum
 

I find it somewhat ironic the the people running Stock and SS are the ones complaining about "cheating".

There is a reason the rules of Stock and SS have gotten so out of hand over the past 20-25 years. It comes down really to 2 things. 1- People are too lazy to work at something and they can just "buy" power so they've gotten parts and pieces approved.. People were cheating for years and year and years and as NHRA has cut back the staffing to police some the things rules have been adjusted to no longer make those things illegal.

I won't argue at all that what is being discussed in this thread isn't happening out there, but if you think the people the win and win consistently are the ones utilizing this technology at the sportsman level I'm here to tell you.... you are wrong... The Dan Fletcher/Biodo/Lamb/Burton/Lanf/Helms type of the world are just good drivers.. if you knew what you were looking for and had the means to check every car at every event across the nation (at the sportsman level) I would venture to guess you find less than 10-20 cars utilizing this technology..

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Yes that is the ANSWER!!

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Yes = There are a lot of great drivers in Stock/SS.
My son is one of them - I am not one of them!

However, It breaks my Heart to see him have to compete
with other good drivers who have electronics that tip the
scales so far in their favor against him.

You can come up and inspect everything on our cars anytime
anyone asks.

We have the funds and know where to find the tech to implement
the changes necessary to compete at the highest level with the other
great drivers.

We discussed it a couple years ago and indeed I was considering
so AND I was pissed off enough to do it after over nearly 60 years
in this sport of following the rules.

I brought it up to my son Jon = He said NO WAY would he participate
in doing so and please do not bring it up again!

Re: New Technical Inspection Addendum
 

It seems there are quite a few of you that know who these supposed cheaters are. If you know they are cheating and know how they are cheating then why don't you protest them and have them torn down and checked for illegal electronics. Personally I don't know of anyone that is involved in that sort of thing. My car has nothing but a 7al box and air shifter. I don't see the newer electronic cars winning more than the older conventional cars. I do believe the technology is out there. We have GPS on the jobsites that is accurate to 1/8 inch or less. This type of equipment is very expensive though. The last 3 races last year and the first race of this year I lost by a combined total of 16 thousandths of a second.

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I don't know but a few folks on this website. If you think there is something funny or what have you. The tech officials are there. I'm happy to still be able to do this and yes I go to win. I would hope every one is a sportsman. Pushing the limits is the game we play. Usually that is under the hood only. That is why we tear down. Not some cheating GPS system. Catching a better light and dialing the car correctly are the only things I want to lose against. As long as the driver is doing all the work that is. Hats off to the greats of the sport. Losing to a front spoiler and not the front tires makes me mad but I adjust. If someone is doing this GPS stuff against me and I catch you. I love this sport too much to just let it fly.

Paul Haszlauer

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Ouch! And still finished #7 in D2, impressive and frustrating both at the same time.

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This was my point. Everyone on here complaining about how the technology exists and are convinced these guys that win all the time are using it, but aren't confident enough to step up and protest. To me this is more of a case of the people that are losing can't figure out how to win and the means the others MUST be doing something.. They have such nice cars and these "crazy" electronics that must make the cars soooo much better... Look I'm here to tell you there are people out there that WILL do it.. there are also people out there that know how to do it.. There are also people that can afford to do it.. finding one person that fits all 3 categories isn't as easy as it sounds. I can almost guarantee those of you that think the guys that win all the time have this technology in place are wrong.. the guys that win all the time would win if you made them drive a butter knife being towed behind a golf cart... they win because they understand something about driving/building a car better than the rest of us and they have the physical abilities to go along with their knowledge. I would venture to guess (and yes.. I'm just guessing) that less than 1% of sportsman vehicles have ever tried anything like this and even those probably weren't successful.. the guys that have broken down and considered doing it are the same guys that can't figure out how to win on their own.. the guys the win were winning before this technology and will continue winning even against guys that do stoop to using it..

BH