CLASS RACER wall of SHAME ....
 

I firmly believe that the time has come for a CLASS RACER wall of SHAME. In the last few years the actions of just a FEW racers has really TARNISHED the CLASS in CLASS RACER. ...LARRY HILL posed an interesting question on another thread. What about the racers that were BEATEN by a car that was ultimately DQ ed ?????? Think about that for a minute or two ????? ........

Re: CLASS RACER wall of SHAME ....
 

This should be an interesting thread.

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I might not race myself, but have many friends that do. The CLASS in class racing is about integrity, pride and honesty among the racers.

Think I will get me a BIG bowl of popcorn and enjoy this thread. Should get very interesting. Have at it.

Re: CLASS RACER wall of SHAME ....
 

INTEGRITY! PRIDE! HONESTY !!!!! What happened ?????

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Class racer's push the rules, isn't what class racing is about?
There is nothing new here, racer's have been disqualified for two
much lift, wrong wheel base, turn signal not working, you name it.
I have been class racing since the 60,s, hell yes I'm old, and it's the same
now as then.For those of you that are up set consider that if you pay someone
to build you an engine and you don't check every part ,you could be illegal.
I think most racer's play by the rules, the real problem is NO TECH. When
racer's know there is no tech they are going to push things to the limit.
Now why don't we talk about Electronic cheating, nobody has much to say
about that?

Re: CLASS RACER wall of SHAME ....
 

I think most racers take great pride in the vehicle they race and their personal integrity keeps them honest about how they race that car/truck. Yes, there are exceptions to this and always has been and always will be.

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Gregg, Have you noticed that for 10 years, they've only wanted to check venturi and throttle plate bore on carbs? Apparently they are just now, looking at them more closely. Okay then,,Check them all!

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Simple fix.....All winners undergo technical inspection! Only 2 things keep people in line...paranoia or integrity...The guys with integrity self police...the others...without the paranoia of a legal check...its a free for all.

You want a check/get checked...and put a system in place that if you get bounced..$/points get handed down. Maybe quick checks of carbs on heads up runs...You can make all the arguments against a policy like this...teardowns after the race..blah..blah..blah or continue to have the class be a simple bracket race...

It's obvious there is no NHRA man power or knowledge to tech all cars up front...do 1 or 2 at the end and start bouncing cheaters if there are any. Put some paranoia back into class racing!

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and if this is a change in NHRA Tech's policy towards carbs then there should ,at least, be a notice of it! BECAUSE over the last couple of years I have been told by more than one Tech that NHRA's "new policy" is ONLY checking venturi size and throttle bore size. Are we checking boosters again? If we are then how does this affect the "replacement Holleys? Do they have to use an OEM Annular Discharge booster or can they continue to use a Down-leg booster? How about throttle shafts and blades? A little more of a heads-up here guys. I don't like surprises! And I REALLY don't like ambushes!

Re: CLASS RACER wall of SHAME ....
 

This works for me!

Re: CLASS RACER wall of SHAME ....
 

Oh boy.........:rolleyes:

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Gregg Luneack is absolutely correct. Since the beginning of time racers have been DQ ed.....NHRA sent me packing twice , too much valve spring pressure and stainless valves when they were a NO NO ....I took it like a man , fixed my issues ...and returned to the track. A couple of thou over on camshaft lift, a few grams under the rod,piston weight, 800 cfm q-jet when specs call for a 750, ....hey it happens, racers make mistakes ......

Re: CLASS RACER wall of SHAME ....
 

and this too!

Re: CLASS RACER wall of SHAME ....
 

"Now why don't we talk about Electronic cheating, nobody has much to say about that?" Greg Luneack


Since we know NHRA doesn't have the man power, I think we should be talking about what counter measures can be enacted through the rules that make electronic cheating less feasible. What changes are racers willing to tolerate, that make it more difficult to cheat?

Are we willing to give up drive shaft speed sensors?

Are we willing to use NHRA certified ignition boxes and tachs? Ignitions and tachs that could allow NHRA to easily plug in a diagnostic device to see if its been tampered with?

Are we willing to have qualified fields that make it difficult to sandbag. I believe down track timing controls are more effective if your able to run a dial in (drive shaft speed profile) that are 3-4 tenths slower than the car is capable of running.

Should we all pay an extra $50 on the entry fee to pay for a tech savy official to really do a good job of rooting out electronic cheating devices at NHRA sanctioned events?

Should a separate Nostalgia Stock and Super Stock class be created that prohibits programmable ignitions such as the grid. Maybe run cable drive tachs again? Let the new EFI cars run whatever they want in their own class?

I don't know what the answer is, but I am interested in it what others think will work to deter electronic cheating. NHRA clearly is on our side when it comes to prohibiting electronic cheating, but we need to be realistic about what can be reasonably expected from NHRA Tech without changes to make their job easier.

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Good point Brian

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I don't have an interest in seeing anyone get a vacation from racing but.....cheating is cheating. If you get told something is illegal....lets just say your throttle body was deemed illegal after a class win and going more than 1.20 under. What kind of penalty should be implied? Serious question. In this instance it seems the racer was DQed from that race, no HP was given and racer is participating at the next race. Now...on that question. SInce the infraction was actually in class eliminations which technically was Class for the Gators and not the actual Div race but the penalty was implied to the Div race. I am just lost on where NHRA stands on penalties for cheating. YES, everybody pushes the grey area in the Rule Book. Remember....its not cheating unless you get caught....or that's what I am told lol. Like MJ said, if you get caught, take it like a man because ultimately you knew it was wrong. So what should be the penalty be?

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Another issue that needs to be addressed by NHRA is that penalties are not imposed equally. Some get fined and/or suspended and others just a slap on the hand for the same or similar violations.

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Agree. Policies have been inconsistent and clear as mud.

Let's go back some years ago when NHRA started bouncing people with Quadrajets that appeared to be polished or did not have any casting flashing. Still remember showing NHRA Tech, a brand new Quadrajet, still sealed in the factory wrapper. I just had opened the box and they unwrapped it themselves, when they looked at the venturis, there were no flaws and they looked perfect. I asked them if the carburetor would be illegal and they were perplexed that a new carburetor would look that way.

All I said was, "how about if the manufacturer changed their process for cleaning castings with a new method and this happens to be the result? Is it the racers fault? How about developing some criteria and share what is acceptable and what is not? All they did was to take some pictures of the carburetor and no answer to the issue.

It also appears that the casting finish inspections by NHRA on carburetors stopped when all the newly approved replacement Edelbrock and QFT carburetors were made available.

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One year at St Louis NHRA pulled us all over after a TT and went over our wiring. They supplied the floor jacks if needed and they really looked them over. The tech guy I had questioned one particular wire and he ask me " where does this wire go" ? For the life of me, I don't know why I said what I said. I answered " that goes to my delay box" ! In my mind, I said Trans Brake. But that's not what came out of my mouth. My brother gave me that what the ? look.. LOL. I realized what I had said and quickly rephrased my answer. But the damage was already done ... I was there for a while .. LOL

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Start with something incredibly simple, a cubic inch tester. They already carry one in the tech trailer. Wouldn't take but a few minutes to pump an engine up. If something looks fishy, keep going from there.

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This is already happening. $340 is a very premium entry fee to enter a National event and run for a winner's purse of $1200. $180 entry at a Divisional to race for $1000 is also a steep entry that should include allowances for proper tech support.

The tech guys that we interact with at races do a great job. This isn't on them. NHRA is responsible for keeping a fair playing field and giving tech the authority to do their job.

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With everything you can do with the new fuel injection systems, is there really anything that can be done to curb the electronic cheating?

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Doh

Re: CLASS RACER wall of SHAME ....
 

Also remember standing by when someone almost got bounced with a new Edelbrock.
It looked like someone took a die grinder from underneath, and made a pass around the venturi small point. ..Someone was able to produce one or two more brand new units that were the same.. The racer was okay-ed.

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And here’s another quick check that will take the level of paranoia up a few notches. Low cost, high quality miniature video cameras that work with an iPhone are widely available. I’ve had one for years. Take a random number of cars at the scales, pull the carbs and take a look inside the intakes.

Come on, it’s no secret what’s going on inside Stocker intake manifolds.

And give everyone a heads up before the race when this is going to start.

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So..let's just say you have just won round one. You are at the scales and they tell you to pull off the road and pull your carb off. You proceed to do that and they bore scope your intake. When they see something they don't like and tell you that you are out, are you just going to pack up and go home? Are you going to pull your intake for a closer inspection? And then wait for a reversal of their decision?.....Remember now, eliminations have started. The clock is ticking. It won't be long until you are called back to the lanes........

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Billie you are right on it looks like you can do that to any carb but this 50 year old one that nobody makes any parts for but most of the hollers have down leg boosters so why carb is singled out because it’s got shinny boosters what’s fair for one is fair for the other.so I guess the booster deal is pick and choose as to who they going to kick out

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Dean, do this quick check during the qualifying so there is time for closer inspection, .......and the clock is not ticking. Often times Stockers are done with Q2 by mid day on Friday so there is plenty of time for close inspection and good discussion. And the ladder is not final. Think this might work?

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The tech guys that we interact with at races do a great job. This isn't on them. NHRA should is responsible for keeping a fair playing field and giving tech the authority to do their job.[/QUOTE]


To be clear, I am not putting this on the tech guys in any way.

Re: CLASS RACER wall of SHAME ....
 

I nearly got the boot for front bumper brackets and dash cluster in St. Louis in 2006, got my letter in the mail and inspected for corrections at the next race I went to in Seattle.

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SAME THING THAT HAPPENED TO OUR ELECTION !:mad:

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This is a good point!

Yes and no. The abilities of the newer ECU's are amazing. You can pretty much do just about anything that you can imagine.
One method that we use with NHRA is approved Firmware that turns off many of the options that would allow one to "build" a configuration that is not legal.

We have unique firmware for NHRA Pro Stock, Pro Mod and Pro Stock Motorcycle for the Holley EFI.

NHRA flashes the ECU's with that firmware and then locks the ability to reflash the firmware.

It gets down to what ECU's suppliers work with NHRA Tech and are allowed on the approved product list. Most are very supportive of NHRA's efforts to close any loopholes in the software.

Robin

Re: CLASS RACER wall of SHAME ....
 

I was afraid this was where we were going with this one... I don't like the sound of this one bit..Especially at this late date :-(

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So what we’re the disqualifications truly for?
Seen posts about shiny boosters, fuel, throttle body ?

Some interesting commentary on other media and was just wondering?

1 guy sticks to it and gets 22 hp and others go close ta as fast and get zip?
Please keep in mind at that point 5-6 runs had been made at this event.

Just asking?

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The Dodge got 22hp.....but it needed it lol. It can still go 130+ under. The rest were under 1.18 or less and the race was a mineshaft race so nothing counts but faster than 1.20 under. The corvette was DQed for throttle body, Gary Summers was DQed for "too shiny" boosters lol

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Corvette ran 1.20+ under in the class final...which seems to have prompted the teardown. Summers ran 1.25+ under a couple times throughout the weekend, which also seems to have prompted the teardown.

Since they failed the teardown, there isn't HP added to the combination because it was deemed the cars weren't "legal." The Dodge got torn down as well, and was found legal, so the HP gets added to that combination.

Think about it...if you have that Corvette or Mustang II combination at home in your garage waiting for next race weekend, and the car that got the HP was DQ'ed by tech after a teardown...how is it right to add HP to your combo???

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What a stupid ignorant comment!

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Come on Greg, where is your unity Flag?

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Don't go there Greg!
Here in Pa. the state supreme court (capital letters intentionally left out) IL-LEGALLY allowed mail in voting changes without the approval of the State Assembly! It won't happen again!

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Because there SOFT as peanut butter and NEED HP or reclassification into the right class . These combos are BOGUS. Makes the competition look slow and useless
The hp hit would not ruin themselves. There that SOFT.