The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

THE FUTURE

After last week’s Blog (https://drc1254.wixsite.com/website/blog/), I am so overwhelmed with the support I received from so many. I can’t thank everyone enough.

One note however I did receive brought this to light. Jerry Duke, who saw his first drag race in 1963 has been involved in many facets of the sport since then. He asked, “I am interested in your opinion as to the future of .90 racing.”

Having been involved since the very early days of that class, I can say that a lot of things have changed since then. A throttle stop in those early days amounted to not much more than a bolt under the gas pedal to limit throttle opening and slow the car down to the class index. The problem with that is it somewhat limited horsepower which made it tougher to get a good reaction time.

In those early days, reaction time was measured from the time the last amber lit until your car broke the stage beam, as opposed to today where the reaction timer starts when the green light shines. Today a perfect .000 reaction time indicates the car broke the stage beam at the same exact time as the green light. Back then, a perfect reaction time was .400, based off a four-tenths pro tree. With the type of equipment then, a .420 reaction time was considered great. We were having to do all sorts of things in order to arrive at that number. With the Powerglide transmissions used back then, I clearly remember having cut apart numerous valve bodies to search for ways to get the trans brake to release quicker.

With Deep Staging not allowed, we’d also attempt to “bump in” a little after being staged. This meant it was sometimes a race just to get into the stage beam first to give you a little extra time to “bump in.” Eventually faster fluid-release valve bodies and better transmission torque converters came to pass, but it still was a different time.

The throttle controls we have today where it appears the car shuts off and then picks up speed hadn’t yet come into existence. This meant that for the most part, races from the starting line to the finish line were side-by-side affairs. I became pretty adept at the use of weight to not only slow the car down but also adjust the suspension. At one time, I also played with an ignition retard after the car shifted into high gear. The amount of retard used allowed me to get closer to the index and then I used minimal amounts of weight to fine tune it. In addition, I used an override in high gear to maybe make up for a late light or force an opponent to break out. Today, it’s as simple as rolling in or out various numbers on the throttle control timer.

It’s apparent today that almost everyone can cut a good reaction time along with their car repeating an elapsed time over and over again. Is it easy? No. There are still dozens of variables which can throw a monkey wrench into the fray. But it’s easier today than it was in the beginning of the class to build a winner, much like in any class of drag racing. The one thing that is harder is the ability to win on a consistent basis and that’s based on the fact that almost everyone has the capability to turn on a win light.

In those earlier days, if there were 100 cars in the staging lanes for a class, you could probably pick out 25 or so who probably had the best chance to win. Now with 100 cars, that number has to be increased to at least 99 of them with the chance of winning. The competition level has gotten that great.

So what’s the future of the .90 classes? I honestly don’t know other several years ago hearing an NHRA official explain to me that any of the .90 classes were the most populated of any of the NHRA sportsman classes. They may not be popular with the fans, but what sportsman class is? The sportsman classes are participant-driven, not spectator-driven. Will it continue? Nobody has that Crystal Ball and who’s to say what happens in the future. A little over one year ago, no one could have predicted the type year we had in 2020. So who can predict the future of the .90 classes? My thought is that as long as they continue to be populated, they’ll remain. And maybe the truth is that the NHRA has bigger things to concern themselves with than the future of a class which is still popular. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see. What’s your thoughts?

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

The "problem " with Super class racing is that when conceived Horse Power to run 9.90 or 8.90 was not easy to build or cheap.
It was a challenge that many of us embraced and rose to.
With the advent of modern cylinder heads ,cranks and blocks anyone can build a big or small block engine capable of HorsePower that Pro Stockers have !
NHRA failed to adapt the classes to the increased power at racers disposal. ....While other Sportsman classes, Comp ,Super Stock, and Stock experienced similar explosions in Horse Power ,their Class Indexes dropped accordingly while the Super Classes were left alone .
The time to lower the .90 indexes is LONG over due . ....There is no reason that all indexes could not be lowered at least one full second if not more . personally I would love to see them at 7.90 ,8.50 and 9.90 respectively

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

Tom, I agree with most of your thoughts except the lowering of the indexes.
I think that might hurt the participation of especially SST as there are several in that class that could not make the 9.90 et without spending more money to reach that et.
They might choose to just go bracket racing instead.
The lowering of the indexes was voted on at least 2 times in the Divisions I participate in over the past years and the vote was to keep it as is. My vote was I did not have a preference and I would go with whatever the majority decided.
I have competed in all 3 of the 90 categories over the years and I observed some in each class with not enough skill to run the class they were in to do so safely. That is one of my concerns when lowering the indexes also. I fear drastically lowering the indexes would cause more high speed accidents.
The last few years I helped with a TS car and I can tell you from my observations from the starting line in that class there are many in over their head in skills to be running that class.
Money can make you fast however, that does not make you capable of controlling that kind of horsepower. That is my concern with lowering the indexes drastically.
Maybe I am just getting old and my concerns may not be real.

My top concern with the 90 classes is the use of electronic controls repeating a programmed run. I have suspicions that is happening and is not being policed by anyone. There was another thread on Class Racer regarding that subject and how it could be done and available it was on the market. If it is available it will be used by some. That is just human nature.
With all that is going on with motor sports I just hope Drag Racing can survive.
Drag Racing has been my addiction since I attended my first NHRA race at Amarillo Dragway in the spring of 1963 or maybe 1964 which was the Winternationals with all the legends of that era. Top fuel cars on open trailers or ramp trucks. The good ole days.
Just My 2 Cents
Rick Cates
Canyon, TX. I now compete in SG and am licensed in both SG and SC

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

i hope it stays around a while. im new to the .90 stuff and like it alot better than bracket racing.

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

I went from Top Sportsman back to Super Street and love it hope it stays around and car counts are great I say leave well enough alone. I also think that super street gives the ability for some drivers to drag race who maybe can't pass the physical to go super fast but still want to compete and have fun. So no I wouldn't want to see an index change.

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

I think it would really mess up the class to lower the indexes. It ok if you have a mega inch motor in a roadster, and can 170. You want to change the index, then do it and I will retire for sure. The hi mph cars have the advantage most of the time, but there are a few racers that run the number at 100 mph. The problem with people wanting to change the index is they can't run without it. 9.90 hi mph car would run low 8's. They allowed the delay, throttle control boxes, which are just computers manipulating the throttle control, and release of the car. Too much politics in the class. Steve Williams. S/G 351N 1994 Ford with no throttle control, or hi moh

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

I think it would really mess up the class to lower the indexes. It ok if you have a mega inch motor in a roadster, and can 170. You want to change the index, then do it and I will retire for sure. The hi mph cars have the advantage most of the time, but there are a few racers that run the number at 100 mph. The problem with people wanting to change the index is they can't run without it. 9.90 hi mph car would run low 8's. They allowed the delay, throttle control boxes, which are just computers manipulating the throttle control, and release of the car. Too much politics in the class. Steve Williams. S/G 351N 1994 Ford with no throttle control, or hi mph. You want to lower the index, jump move up a class. You run super gas, run super comp, problem solved

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

You could also do what they did out on the West Coast a few years back and did a 7.90 class with a mix of dragster and roadsters. Keep the other classes the same with the indexes for those who don't have deep pockets and create a 7.90 class for those who want to go fast. I don't remember the results of the event but, I think it was held at Sonoma.

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

We all voted years ago on the subject of lowering the Indexes. The vote was not to change anything. I can't recall what year it was.

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

That's sorta what I was going to suggest, though I might change that up slightly. Just thinking out loud here...

You can't really just move all the indexes up 1 second because as somebody mentioned you would force out a lot of the S/St racers (that jump in index requires a lot of additional safety equipment, including chassis certification (not that they shouldn't have it anyway, but that's another topic altogether).

In my opinion, NHRA hurt S/St when the made it so that you could race more than one category if you raced S/St. A lot of really good, experienced S/G guys moved down the instant they were able to do that.
So, I would move S/C up to 7.90, S/G up to 8.90, S/St up to 9.90, and make a new 10.90 class with a few rules modifications.

For the new 9.90 S/St I would reduce the minimum weight requirement to 2100 lbs., but otherwise leave the class exactly as is.

For the new 10.90 class, I would use the current S/St minimum weight of 2,800 lbs., and go back to 1 entry only. I'm thinking stock bodied vehicles only (no fiberglass replicas). Maybe no chassis cars (back half cars only). I would also seriously consider electronics restrictions. No programmable ignition boxes? No data recorders / electronic dashes? Manually shifted cars only?

Again, just thinking out loud here and trying to think about the typical low 11 second bracket racer that is thinking that they'd like to dip their toe in the water and give .90 racing a try. You're not going to do that if you immediately believe that you'd have to go spend $5,000 in miscellaneous electronics to make your car competitive.

I'm sure all of you could come up with some good suggestions. I want to see these classes survive, but I really don't believe they will if they continue running the way they are. For now, NHRA is OK with it because there are still plenty of competitors. But the average age competing in each class is continually rising, because it's just us same old competitors getting older. We need to have a real entry-level class that your typical young, enthusiastic drag racing competitor can get into without:

1. Breaking the bank
2. Feeling like they're bringing a knife to a gunfight
3. Being embarrassed about the state of their racing operation as compared to the typical competitor in the class

Regardless, thanks for the initial, thought provoking post, John. It's good to see some familiar "faces" again...

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

I've always liked Super street but never got why it was never treated as a national championship class.

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

Just my opinion......leave the SST index and weight alone. limit to real cars with doors. As NHRA has spun the class as "entry level", the MPH should also be governed. Maybe a limit on MPH. It should also be included at all National events.

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

I don't understand what positive difference would come from lowering the indexes. The launch will be the same. The car will feel the same when it goes wide open and through the finish line. Is a couple more seconds of coast really what is wrong with the classes?

It would surely drive a lot of cars out that can't go 1 second under. I can't see lower indexes spurring anyone to go Super-class racing that isn't already doing it. If it does, it surely isn't enough to replace the racers who are driven out.

What's the goal of making the move?

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

If they were going to change anything it should be the tree
go back to a true 400 and a true 500

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

I was told by a NHRA official a few years back that NHRA would edit the tree when Pro Stock Motorcycle was at the race and do it from Friday to Saturday when eleminations for the Sportsman Classes had started.
That should not happen and I understand it was stopped, however I think it was the cause of many red lights.
Just tell us what the rules are and we can adjust.
My 2 Cents
Rick Cates
Canyon, TX

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

I could give all of you a really long and detailed explanation of what I went through with this issue SRAC. What I will say is when we were at No Problem Raceway in Belle Rose, La in 2019 I was hearing (What is this .470 on the time slip?). That was for the SST racers like me. I just had to tell them it had been like that for years. NPR's time slips actually had it printed .470 on the paper time slip. That means SG and SC had .370 0n theirs too.

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

I'll add to that with. We would run a Divisional with a true .400 for SG & SC and a true .500 in SST back around 07 and 08. Then you go to a National Event and you're 30 slow. Nobody told you ****. There were a bunch of people in all the Super classes that didn't have the numbers to pull out but nobody ever got an explanation why.

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

I still firmly believe it was all about Angel crying on TV that she fouled. I went to a double division race and beat myself up all weekend not being able to hit the number. I found out the following week from a tech guy at the local track that NHRA changed the tree. Thats when I went to SSrt for many years till I had enough power to hit the .370 and moved back to SG

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

I remember the motorcycle racers crying, I remember not being told from race to race what the tree was set at. I really don’t understand why the sportsman classes had to be changed along with the pros
isn’t it just a flip of a switch or a few seconds of programming in the tower? when they did this they basically created the Corvette roadster and .90 classes has became where either you can hit the light or stay home. Some of the big mile an hour problems people complain about are also because you had to have extra horsepower to make the car leave to go red which equals more horsepower and more mph. super Street excluded a lot of cars that can run the number but just can’t cut the light.

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

Put some "SUPER" back into S/C. 7.50 index with .350 tree.

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

I can't remember what year it was maybe 09 or10 when it went straight to a .X70 tree. That's why I parked my stuff in early 2011. I fixed the issue and kept trying to came back. I had motor issues, business issues and a broken leg. The next thing I knew I was 53 years old making my first full season in 9 years. I wouldn't do this stuff if I didn't love it. But damn some times it's a PITA. But then again here I am. Lol

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

How about this. No delay boxes, manual throttle limiters only (no electric or pneumatic limiters), manual shift only, including automatic transmissions (no electrically controlled or CO2 shifters). Let's see how many racers can compete without all the electronic gadgets doing all the work for them. Car must remain under full power to at least to the 1,000 foot timer. Every one knows that people in the stands still do not like this type of racing. They want to see cars under full power all the way down the track, (not fall on it's face for hundreds of feet down the track). And before you start bashing me, know that I run Super Street myself. So this can be done, because this is how I race. I choose to not be a monkey in the car and let all the electronics do the work, while all I have to do is cut a light. Also, once your car is fast enough for Super Gas, it should not be allowed to run in Super Street. Leave Super Street class for the racers that are not running 140 mph +. I'm not trying to bash anyone else's way of racing. We all have our ways of trying to be competitive in these style classes. Just my 2 cents, and I know that it's not gonna be popular with the majority of the Super class racers.

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

I have a shifter that is co2, but is not electric solenoids, or wires, you have to move the liberty shifter to acuate the air switch's which shift the trans. So the way you say this, would this not meet you requirements for super gas?? You said no co2 shifters

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

I was talking about Super Street specifically, but I think ALL super classes should be under power all the way down the track without going on a throttle stop style device that makes them fall on their face while traveling down the race track. The main point I was trying to make was that there are WAY to many gadgets in the typical Super class cars. I know, if I don't care for this style of class, I should find another class to race in. I get it. I just think that their is no human element in a car where the electronic devices are doing all the work to make the car run the number. I'm sure you know as well as I do that the stands tend to clear out at a national event when the super classes come to the line. We (the racers) understand our classes, but the typical guy in the stands doesn't care much for cars that that fall on the throttle stop, then take back off again. Don't get me wrong on one point though. I don't care if there are people in the stands, I just want to race. But I just really think the super class rules and equipment have gone WAY to far with all the gadgets used in these class. One more point, if the rule book says Super Street uses a .500 tree, then it should be a .500 tree. Just because the pros have a hard time with the tree, doesn't mean they should change the sportsman tree, especially when the rule book specifically states ".500 Tree"

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

The only thing this would do is put the aftermarket HP industry out of business. The genie is out of the bottle and not going back in..........
Dan

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

Yup, so big corporate America is now running the NHRA. Tail is wagging the dog, so to speak. God forbid we just race without these big companies complaining about how we race or what equipment we use. We do need these companies for parts, but they shouldn't be able to dictate to NHRA that these classes HAVE TO buy and use their parts to be able to compete in the super classes. So I refuse to. Just like the 2 year expiration dates on the belts. No reason why NHRA can't inspect and re-certify them at the track. It's all about feeding money back to these companies and forcing the racer to flip the bill for it. Don't get me wrong, safety equipment should not be compromised, but why do we have to spend this money every two years? Other sanctioned racing entities don't require it, and those cars sit outside on open trailers, exposed to the weather and sun. The harness in those other cars are always being strained left, right, forward and back. Doesn't make much sense, other than forcing the money issue to these companies.

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

I think you are missing the point. The point is if all we had to run was say 10.90 @ 118 mph there would be no need in new tech in the horsepower aspect. I've had people look at my truck and say ( Isn't that a little too much for SST?). The last time I checked NHRA stood for National Hot Rod Association. I race a Hot Rod and don't care what everyone else runs if it meets class requirements. Do what you want with your Hot Rod.

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

Totally agree
I can’t help it if you bring a knife to a gunfight!
Don’t play in there sandbox and try to change rules to fit your agenda
I have won with a very slow car and now with a fast one. All within rules
Anyway there are some more classes that fit that need. No t-stop and stricter rules. There is a 10 flat 8.50 and 11.50 class. Nhra even had them at several division races. Not a huge turnout or a big fan hit like you think.
I just won an event in the 11.50 index class.in my street strip car. Believe me it wasn’t easy. Btw the winner in the 10 flat class was also a super street racer.

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

Coming to the Super classes from Comp Eliminator, I have no problem in wanting to go faster.. we keep building things bigger and faster, but remain in our respective classes.. many looked to TS and TD as a place to take our stuff to go faster.. unfortunately, as in my case, my body style is not acceptable in either.. many are in the same boat.. AND THEN, TS and TD spiraled out of control in the money area, which made them unattainable for many who really wanted to go fast.. SOOOOOOO, back to bracket racing for many..

I see no problem with dropping the indexes by a second in each class, and run off the same .370 tree in all classes.. all rules remain the same, except maybe the minimum weight for S/ST.. we may find that some SG guys, who run just enough power to run 9.90, will change to S/ST, and not have to spend money on a new combination.. and we already know that many S/ST folks can already run 9.90, especially if they can lose some weight..

Not a bad idea from where I'm sittin'.. I can't see where anyone gets hurt..

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

I agree with everything you said but the .370 tree. There are some SST cars that struggle with .470. And of course there's this dummy with a 3550lb truck.

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

the one thing you can't outrun in racing is "Money" most people that whine are just wanting to change something to fit what they have ,or are just keyboard racers! the super classes are not perfect but there are not a tougher place to win,come get you some-or just shut up!

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

Nobody gets hurt from the perspective of a slow SG car, because under your proposal SST magically becomes the same class that SG was previously. Slow SC cars and slow SST cars get the shaft as they don't have a slower option.

Do you envision the lower indexes drawing enough new fast cars to offset those losses? My personal opinion is that anyone who wants to throttle stop race is already doing it as long as they have the power to run the current indexes.

Re: The Future Of The .90 Classes
 

I just stumbled onto this thread, but did read the various opinions. I agree with those that want to leave the indexes as they are. Most SST and SG guys who want faster racing probably have the HP to step up one level. Maybe a lower index for the SC guys.