Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

After 2 very impressive Sportsman races (Georgia & St Louis ) this spring, I have some questions concerning the low number of racers that attended. I know there are endless reasons for not attending , but what I am wondering is the format a factor in attendance ? By that , what I mean is, since we race at Nhra races for a fraction of the purse offered at these races, is the 20K plus to win with limited round payout needed to encourage attendance OR would a 10K to win with good round money to 2nd round get better attendance ?? I am only asking because I want these races to succeed and be there next year !!! I am afraid to ask for opinions because I dont want this to turn into a xxxx show. Thanks Bob

Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

We didn't make it to the first race in Ga. and I'm really sorry we weren't there, because I understand we missed a great time. Not very often or ever are we allowed to compete for this kind of money. We are Stockers or in our case Super Stock. This type of money should be a huge draw for any type of class racer. Those who chose not to be there, shame on you. Everyone was great and treated us like the stars that we are. The starting line crew was second to none. Some very fast cars were there, Larry Zavala was there with some of his friends from Ca. He came to win, making five or six passes on test and tune Tue. He came terribly close and was a BAD competitor. Personally I think the BIG DOLLARS is the draw and not so much round money. We will make every race this year and next if something like this offered again. Thanks Tyler and all the Bohannon family.

Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

We watched the whole event on line, rooting for the west coast guys. I've got to say Larry Zavala, Phillip Mandella, Tony Mandella and Larry Gilley all did some very impressive driving. Not to mention their cars were all fast. Good job guys, you represented Division 7 well.

Darin Grossi

Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

Second chance races like YoKen’s and Tyler’s are definitely the right approach instead of permitting buybacks. I’m anxious to see the turnout at Numidia, know I’m looking forward to it. Hope it pulls some D6 and D7 cars.

Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

Bob, several thoughts on this subject to serve up.

From my personal experience, there are a couple of key success factors that make these races attractive, fun and successful.

Exclusivity – Stock and SS only. Bo said it best – “a race where STK/SS is celebrated and not tolerated”.

The ability to race more than once. 2-3 races including an optional Combo

Some entertainment. At SGMP it was the 64 car Shootout. At St. Louis it was the CIC race. At Ken’s race later this summer it will be the Top Stock Race. And the evening Racer parties are icing on the cake.

NHRA came pretty close to getting this right last year with the Speedweek at Columbus that had the LODRS and the SportsNATIONALS back to back. I think the back to back Division races were a brilliant idea and see that that concept is back in several places this year with National Open/LODRS doubles. But the same issues with an NHRA race were there….long waits, Top Sportsman crash cleanups, yada-yada-yada……

One of the biggest challenges for the promoter is date, location and cost. I think the two recent races were too early to have broad appeal. Both tracks appeared to be great choices for the racer. While St. Louis was great for the racer, I would have concerns about the cost to the promoter especially if scheduled in “Prime Time”.

The idea of several Regional Associations getting together for a joint race has been bantered about but faces the problem of “when and where”. Bringing Buckeye, GLSSA, Can-Am, Midwest and Heartland Associations together could make for a great race. And we have talked about an All-Star Challenge race that pits 4-8 from each Association …… that would be the entertainment. But where is the right track in the right spot to get good support from these Association racers?

I raced at Ken’s Numidia race last year and it was fantastic. From what I’ve seen so far it may be the best balance of date, location, entry fee, and payout. The Numidia track is well suited for this type of race with a beautiful location, solid prep and lots of places for watching… especially the hill overlooking the finish line. It was mostly D1 racers last year but I expect a good D3 turnout this year, especially with the D1 Numidia LODRS race and National open the week before.

I think Michael Beard’s Class Nationals may have had the success formula pretty close. The late August date for the second race may have been it’s undoing.

Stock and SS racing is headed for some good times with these independent events. Thanks to the promoters and the supporting companies.

Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

A couple of thoughts:

Location: consider Tri-State in Earlville, Iowa

Spectators: Invite area car clubs for Fri/Sat (Camaro/Mustangs etc), give them an 1/8 mile pass Friday night ($10 entry fee, track keeps $), maybe get some of them hooked, Best Appearing, some special recognition, free racers picnic for the clubs, bounce houses for little ones, parade lap with children

Gamblers race?

Associations pool monies & maybe points series (Best 3 of ?) extra points as tie breakers for Q positions etc

Lucky Dog pass...ONE ticket at $10 each for ONE loser

Stock SS racers are a creative group, we certainly could come up with things that the nimrods at NHRA can't envision

One last thought, although the focus is in S SS cars, sometimes a little FILLER would be nice.....S/ST or SG door cars, or even fast na bracket cars that may see the value of moving up to class cars....S SS racers could advise/mentor newbies

Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

I second Tri-State in Earlville! The only thing I disagree on is using the icky throttle stop cars as filler. Getting a few "street outlaw" local racers would be an idea.

Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

NSS cars are a good fit in the STK/SS world and are included in several of the Association races. There are a good number of NSS cars in the Midwest to draw from. Michael Beard had this right.

Joliet may be the best location for all but its cost and future don’t look good.

Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

Something to consider, when WE are the show....who is the FILLER ??? We need some sort of filler ...to minimize the downtime....I believe a nice $$ nostalgia race would fit right in ???? Like YAC said, SPECTATORS....$$$$. Sure can help the bottom line. .......

Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

Jim, some good points. The future of races like these looks promising. To draw more cars from D6 and D7 what are the chances of having an event west of the Mississippi??

Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

I think that many of us are in this for fun memories, photos, trophies, and bragging rights.

My preference would be to have more heads-up racing. Class Eliminations, Top Stock, Mid Stock, Bottom Stock, Factory Stock, CIC, etc. One thing I really like about the NHRA is that you get a classy, high quality trophy.

Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

I am with Bob I personally would rather see 10K to win and good round money. The odds of a lot of us getting to the 20k is slim it is tough sledding out there. But the odds that a guy/gal can get a lucky round win or two and get a little some thing back is much more appealing to me. I also like the multiple races. one thought on doing two races would be to switch it up run one on a sportsman ladder and the second on a pro ladder. Just to help mix it up. With a combo or tough luck race for the people that didn't make it past the first couple rounds. It is also a built in filler to help with down time.

Location and timing is always going to be an issue. There are the hitters and retired people that are going to be willing to travel across the country for an event. The average working Joe just cant afford to travel 2000 miles one way for a prayer at big money.

Just some thoughts Best of luck to all that are putting these races on and the people making the trip.

Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

Gump: if you want a classy trophy, check out the ones I donated to the revival; of course they don't have the history of the Wally, on the other hand Wally's are very diluted right now*

Another random thought: how about asking Sportsman MFGs (those mainly targeting our group) to help in S SS races, as we are the main customers and because we tear things up, we are repeat customers

* as I stated in an earlier post, S SS are creative people, and although I like my design, there can be more attractive trophies designed

Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

Lots of good ideas !!! I think the answer to your guys questions are ... #1 Norwalk is the track, and #2, with help and guidance from Bill Bader Jr., lots of fans in the stands! ... "Profit" for the promoter is not a Bad Word. Without it, these races won't survive.

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They look nice in the photos. That is exactly what I am talking about. Something that is a conversation piece for years to come.

I had seriously considered running a COPO in the CIC race, but ended up having to work all weekend. Did the winner of that race get a trophy?

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The term "Big Bucks" is still coming out of the racers wallets. Specially if the only races are 1500 miles or more away. The NHRA Sportsnational has the same problem. The state of Ohio isn't that close to division 2,4,5,6 or 7. Pump gas cost money too.
Wanting 200 racers to donate "big bucks" for 1 to win "big bucks" doesn't make the other 199 racer want to repeat and repeat. Spread the wealth out a little at least.

Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

I personally thing the format at SGMP was the way to go. Friday, Saturday and Sunday race. 3 chances at 20K for a $300 entry for each race and the 50K race to boot. Its better to race on the weekend for most and take less days off of work. I checked the mileage for me to go to CRR race and it was 1250 one way. that adds 2 days of travel each way so I would have to take more than a week off of work for that event and travel time. The class racer nations put on by Ken is about the same distance tow for me. I have to pick and choose the events that I can go to based on the amount of time away from work. Luckily the SGMP race was a fairly close race for me and I was able to attend and support it. I have no problem pony'ing up my money and racing with out a consolation race. If I do good and win some rounds and money that's great. If I get beat I just lick my wounds and head home. I will try to support these type of events as best I can.

I think both races were awesome and hope the next one is just as good and the promoters can keep it going.

Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

https://youtu.be/8_ydQ0otefI

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Ernie Neal
SS 354
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Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

lots of good input . I would like to focus on the format of these races , the time and where, could be discussed at a later time. Jason& Bo and their group and Tyle and his group put on great events, THEY KNOW HOW TO DO IT RIGHT, with the only downside being poor attendance !! Looking ahead ,how do we change that?? how do we achive better turnout so these events can repeat ?? Nhra is never going to provide this !! The question is, do you favor a large payout to win with limited round money or smaller payout to win with round money to second round ?? Which would get you to attend these races ? I'm not saying that this is the fix,but these events need numbers or they WON"T be there !! Thanks Bob

Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

A poll could be put up to answer your question between a large payout to win and round money. After the Class Racer Revival in St. Louis maybe best wheel stand is a worthy category too!

My car is still about 24 months to completion, so hopefully these events are successful and become very popular. Looking forward to it.

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Only way we will be at Earlville is if someone else is responsible for track prep. Last two times we were there it was very bad and the track personal did not care. Reed use to do a great job. It was always a favorite race to be at, but not now. It could return to that level but first and foremost the track has to work.

Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

How about for filler you use the Jr's? They bring lots of family members and buy lots of hot dogs.

Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

From a pretty good source in the first 25 k race the last eight split the prize money. Same thing in the CIC stock race, the top two had a deal. There are some pretty Classy Racers out there. It is not always about the money. Tom

Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

Hi Larry Was good to see you in St Loius . We have some good races scheduled at Earlville this season and would love to have you there. I can assure you that steps are being taken to maintain consistency with traction at these races. The challenge is the large car count puts a strain on the track, but I have faith in Reed and Bill to take care of us. thanks Bob

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Count me as a NO on that one.

Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

Bob if large car counts are the problem the track has to know it’s limitations. The choice is simple, limit entries to what they can provide value to, a good racing experience. Rent equipment and expertise to handle the surge or move it to a quality track.

Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

Travel distance will always be a factor for those who work an average 8-5 job. For many, the lost time from work, the travel costs, motel costs, and racing fees top several thousand dollars to attend a race that is many miles away.

Another factor is simply the competitiveness of your car. From what I have seen posted for St. Louis, the top half of the field was .90 under or better. And the top 64 or so of the 75 car field was .50 under or better. Not much reason for the average Joe to travel that far and spend that much money with just an average car.

Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

To answer Bob's question on attendance. Time of year is key. Too early and guys up north have to get there stuff ready then have to leave in the snow and cold. I know, coming form Wisconsin and go to Georgia was rough on the equipment rust were there was none, Zinc plating on nuts and bolts white. But that being said once we got there had a Fantastic time! I know that prime time cost a lot more but if the racers come the money side comes as well. I would much rather race in the summer months or fall than come and go in the winter. also keep in mine that by summer and Fall most racers should have their stuff back together and running.

Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts
 

Seems like a 100 years ago. We received one free crew member with a national event entry. Puts a few more faces in the stands.