Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

I have a 66 Chevy II with 283 Super Stock car. Are data loggers really worth the money for carburator applications? What value do they add? Best brands?

Thanks,
Avery

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

ABSOLUTELY.......
I've used Racepak since 2007. Everyone I know that has "finally" spent the money to get a data logger, wished they would've done it sooner............
Dan
SC4698

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

The data you gain will eliminate guesswork and reliance on trackside " you spun the tires " observations .
Just having the basics of engine ,driveshaft and O2 will help save time and money by providing solid visual data graphs that can be overlaid to compare good and bad runs and make informed shock and suspension adjustments.
Real world ,on the track O2 data is very helpful in finding the tuneup that not only can pick up ET for a heads up run ,but also find the perfect bracket mode tuneup that delivers consistency.
Additional channels like oil and fuel pressure can also help catch problems before they result in destruction

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

Yes for sure. I have 1 on bracket/ small tire car with nitrous sometimes. I have gained 1/10 in 1/4 ET due to reading graph and seeing Converter was wrong by about 200 rpm and car was going to lean at finish line. I'm not the smartest guy but made me smarter and faster. Also I watched how oil pressure was fluctuating alot going down track. Adding 1/2 a quart of oil straightened out pressure reading and maybe saved a engine from being hurt.

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

Friend of ours had similar thoughts to yours, first time out with his Racepak system he had an oil pressure issue, discovered a broken oil pump pickup and saved an expensive engine.
He no longer wonders the value of data acquisition,

See you at the races,
Wayne Kerr

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

Yes- and look into RPM Performance. Simpler, reliable and a higher level of personal support than Racepak.

Clark

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

I agree with the yes answers. Having the basic data allow tuning a car to be very consistent. I like the Racepac system.

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

My son Jon and I have similar 340 Stock Demon.
He dyno's his engines and has a Data Logger with
a lot of channels.

I do not use either one of those and mostly scratch the
seat of my pants.

Last week at Sac we ran side by side at the same exact
weight and the finish was '.003 in my favor.

Of course = He reminds me I was racing over 30 years in these
cars when he was born.!

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

Buddy of mine got talked into a pretty basic Racepac a few years ago. Has owned and raced the same car for many decades and thought he knew every thing about it (and his driving).

Put it in, took it to the track and made a few test hits. Looked at the data and couldn't believe what he didn't know.

Made some changes and the car is deadly now.

I'm a believer. Add video and you're set.

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

The first thing I learned with my data recorder is that I didn’t drive the car very consistent.

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

The Racepak Sportsman appears to be the entry level unit. Their website states that out of the box it will record:

Engine RPM
Drive Shaft RPM (Requires Driveshaft Collar Sold Separately)
Accelerometer G-Meter
Lateral G-Meter
Battery Voltage
12 volt event
Record Button

What information would you gain from these inputs? Wheel slip, acceleration rate, missed shift RPM?

What else would need to be added to that system when used on a carbureted stocker?

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

So what data logger system is recommended? Additional what extra benefit does the MSD Grid offer?

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

You can see what is happening before, during and after a gear change.

You can see what your torque convertor slippage is as the car goes down the strip.

For similar weather conditions you can overlap Accelerometer / G-Meter data and see where in the run a change helped or hurt.

Engine acceleration rate will vary not only for from one gear to another but also within each gear. One reason I like an inertia dyno fixed load variable acceleration rate engine test.

Stan

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

to the above list, add fuel pressure, and you are well on your way to a consistent package

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

Vacuum, oil pressure, fuel pressure, water temp, nitrous(I know) then ditch the gauges. With these data logged you will be amazed at what's going on when making a pass

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

O2 sensor would help

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

If you're going to buy Racepak, buy it from Greg Kelley at Motorsports Innovations.

If I could do it over, I would have went straight to the V300SD instead of the Sportsman. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with the Sportsman, but by the time you add extra channels (and you probably will), the initial price difference between the two basically disappears.

The support you'll get from Greg is top notch. The support I've gotten from Holley isn't worth the time I spent waiting on the phone to get it.

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

One thing I can add is that don't try to piece a data logging system system together on a budget as it just won't work well. Also keep in mind that you need a laptop (preferably with a second screen) and a secure place for a mobile data lab. An open trailer and a pickup truck won't really cut it.

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

If your trying to go fast, yes they are a must have. If one is not, then the 2 K plus cost, by the time you get O2s, lap top etc, could be put to better use with a limited budget..

Steve Teeter Stk/SS 620

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

True cost against the value added was the original thought with my previous post.

So use my combo as an example. I've had this car for over 20 years. Let's say I can run 1.00 under without to much effort. Lets say the new engine makes 20 HP more than the old one. Let's say the new transmission is worth a little more as well. So let's say that I believe I can go faster in the near future.

Is a $1000 Sportsman system worth the money for the limited data gained?

Is $1500 for the Sportsman system with single channel add on O2 sensor worth the money?

Would a $1700 V300 system be a better choice? Or would I also need the add on single channel O2 sensor ( bringing that system to $2200)?

And I think these options would still be considered "entry level". I could see a full system hitting $3000 to $4000.

All opinions welcome...

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

I never had one. Then I got one. Now I'll never not have one.

Not only does it help you understand where to pick up, it shows you when you're running into trouble. Oil temperature comes to mind. Same with oil, fuel and transmission pressure.

People will spend $1500 on a weather station and not even think to buy a basic racepak. It makes no sense. If I had to choose between one or the other, without a second thought I'd choose the racepak.

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

Dean,
When I built my car for Stock, I purchased a Computech DataMaxx, it is a built up system and still in the car. Originally it was engine and clutch monitoring. Oil press, water temp, O2 in both collectors, input shaft, driveshaft, accel. I mainly monitored what the clutch was doing, and that is all it does now since switching to SS and EFI. The EFI now logs the engine vitals. I will say this as someone else pointed out. I discovered why I was having oiling issues with the EFI combo by the data logs. Seeing oil press fluctuating as the engine accelerated and would recover. Adding an additional quart of oil and the problem went away.

Its an investment, and more info to validate what you think just happened on a pass, if everything is healthy, or setup as efficient as possible. If someone is not into looking at data it is not a worthwhile investment.

Sean

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

Dean, I put a used Sportsman in. O2's in the collectors. Found a racer upgrading to V300. 600.00 (I have only 2 jets ). Auto 1-2 shift. Got a lot of information on shift points and learned, leaner was a little faster. All good data.
If there was a lot of fast cars in ones class, yes it then should be very helpfully.
I know guys that have 6-7K invested in the F, G and H stockers data systems. 25K in Comp cars!
Some of the " Dime Rocket" cars that can run 1.30-1.40 plus under, I would think investing in a Data recorder is unnecessary and not cost effective.
So I see it as fewer the cars in your class and slower the class, Data recorders become a fun tool but are not going to provide a return on your investment to win rounds.
Just my view.

Steve Teeter STK/SS 620

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

Very interesting point. Obviously I have a slower class car and trying to weigh were the money is best invested as I am on a budget. I know I will never have a 1.00 under car but I'm shooting for .4 - .5 under.

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

If you run a clutch, I'd consider it a must have.
JMO

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

So question for everyone that got a data logger. How much ET did you pick up from the data logger alone from identify the optimal configuration?

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

Mine is in a bracket look alike super stocker. It should me converter to tight. Motor going rich on top end. Played around and gained a solid .12

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

How about we ask a different question. How many feel that the data supplied from runs and about changes saved you both a nice amount of both time and money?

Stan

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

i have a racepak sportsman with a o2 you don"t know what your missing without one great tool wouldn't be without one

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

The rpm DL10 seems to be the most cost effective for those on a budget. Can the 2 o2 package be added to the DL10?

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

This is our 1st racing season with one. (Racepak Sportsman) Here are the ways it helped us, above better dial-ins. So far it has helped us to fine tune the A/F since we have the 02 sensors in the collectors. Shift points, launch rpm's and tire pressure based on driveshaft rpm vs engine rpm and the acceleration G's. It helped us diagnose a voltage drop on the run when we were .05 slow to our dial. Tracked it to a loose alternator plug. Then further dug in and found a voltage sucking on-off master switch. Yesterday we went out to do some bracket racing. Car was just as fast as it should be in the air on the 1st pass and we thought we had zero issues. On the run the data showed we dropped from ~45psi Oil pressure on our SBC to ~7psi. Packed up and headed home after watching our friend go a few rounds. Don't know the damage yet, but ZERO indications otherwise we had an issue. We are saving $$ and possible my hide with that data logger. If we made another time trial and the motor let go and shot oil everywhere who knows what happens. Never thought a data logger was a safety purchase too, but it could be. I wouldn't race without one. That is just me. I tent camp when I race multiple days and shower with a modified weed sprayer. I am not a baller. The $2500 we have in our data logger was NOT an insignificant purchase to us.

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

It inputs just like any other sensor though the WegoIII board.

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

Happened to me last year. Saw really low oil pressure, put it in the box and went home. Pulled the engine apart and blackened the crank, had some not great looking bearings but saved the engine. New crank, oil pump and bearings and back to racing. Just a bracket engine but the only one I had at the moment.

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

Avery - we picked up maybe .03-.04 so far with small tweaks in limited runs but the safety factor as others have mentioned is worth the investment X10. We've found lean spots in the tune-up that have slowly been ironed out so the engine is happier everywhere in the run (burnout to stripe). Our tune-up will never be perfect, but a data logger allows us to intentionally "chase hp" with far less guess work.

I think there's likely a benefit with consistency as well as you can slowly improve each aspect of the combo and get it all into a healthier spot. Having ample data really accelerates the development curve since you have empirical visibility to so many more things that are going on during the run.

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

I just ordered a Sportsman Racepak from Greg at Motorsports Innovations he was very helpful and set me up with what I needed and can add more sensors in the future. With these new clutches it is a must have.

Randy Wells
I/S 5628

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

I second the vote for Gregg Kelly @ Motorsports Innovations! He is extremely knowledgeable, helpful and, in my case, patient! His customer service nd responsiveness is 2nd to none!

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

I just recieved a v300sd from motorsports innovation, Gregg Kelly seem very knowledgeable and eager to answer all the questions i had, prompt service and upgraded shipping, when i bought the cobalt it had an old racepak with outdated computer that we have not been able to access the information from. Can't wait to get it installed and figure this car out ...

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

Those are some really good points. I have to say thanks to everyone that has replied. I have a brand new car and combination so I'm still trying to figure out where money is best spent. With that said I will be looking at data loggers some this off-season as it seems to be a reasonable investment based off all the comments.

Based off everyone's information, what are the recommend bare basic sensors to start with? What was the most valuable sensors added to the car?

Thanks,
Avery

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

If you're rewiring your car or at least wanting to do a major update here's what I did and it's been very nice.
1. IQ3 logger dash
2. Smartwire with programable switch panel
3. MSD Grid with CAN bus for O2

The IQ3 logger is more money upfront than the other options but I removed all my gauges to clean the car up and you don't have to run a separate data recorder so it simplifies the setup. The MSD Grid has a VNET to link it with the IQ3 so you can log everything the ignition is doing along with the typical Racepak VNET transducers. The Smart wire and switch panel is programable so no setting up relays and running a bunch of wires everywhere.

To save a few $ I used MSD's O2 package vs Racepacks and bought my sensors from lowdollar motorsports.

Pics
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...92522488271097

Re: Data Logger Worth it or Not?
 

Engine rpm and driveshaft rpm which is in all basic systems and O2 next most valuable for tuning for me.



I log ERPM, DRPM, dual O2, crank case vacuum, oil pressure, fuel pressure, water temp, accelerometer, battery voltage. Am adding trans temperature also. You can check converter slippage using the ERPM and DRPM.



I'm a bracket racer so water temp and trans temp may not matter to you as much.